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Help to build a bike

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Old 11-23-16, 02:08 PM
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tchiby
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Help to build a bike

Hi everyone,
First time coming here so please treat me well .

Anyway, i came here because i would like to build a bike from scratch but i don't know where to start.
So that's why i'm coming to you all for help.

I ride mostly in mountains ( roads and dirt roads ) but also to get around in my town so i was thinking of a kinda hybrid -ish bike kind a thing.
Also I was wondering about retro pedaling... is it good ?

And also if the subject is somewhere on the forum, could you send me a link?

I have a budget of 1000-2000 $.
Thank you,
tchiby.
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Old 11-23-16, 02:19 PM
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Bike parts are considerably more expensive when bought piecemeal compared to when bought as a complete bike. Unless you have a considerable stash of parts, or skills and time to spend on bargain hunting, expect to spend at least double the amount on building a bike compared to buying one.
Building bikes is fun, but usually cost-prohibitive.
You're better off buying a bike as close as possible to what you want, then changing as little as possible.
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Old 11-23-16, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dabac View Post
Bike parts are considerably more expensive when bought piecemeal compared to when bought as a complete bike. Unless you have a considerable stash of parts, or skills and time to spend on bargain hunting, expect to spend at least double the amount on building a bike compared to buying one.
Building bikes is fun, but usually cost-prohibitive.
You're better off buying a bike as close as possible to what you want, then changing as little as possible.
^^^ Hogwash.
If you want new, buy an entire bike. But a used bike with older technology parts can be quite affordable. Have you ever worked on a bike?
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Old 11-23-16, 03:00 PM
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"...i would like to build a bike from scratch."
To me, this means that you would like to build a frame. And then build it up into a bicycle by adding parts. Or, did you have something less ambitious in mind?
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Old 11-23-16, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JanMM View Post
"...i would like to build a bike from scratch."
To me, this means that you would like to build a frame. And then build it up into a bicycle by adding parts. Or, did you have something less ambitious in mind?
Lol no not at all i'm not that crazy! or am I...,? no for real, in my head I'm picturing like buying different parts and adding them together...
But like Wildwood said maybe i only buy an used bike and then "repair" it quite well.. i don't know ;$
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Old 11-23-16, 03:15 PM
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I've done 5 - I work out the logistics in detail, shop from US vendors (Outside outfitters - even some things from Rivendell - their prices are great on many items - cable kit; also Modern Bike - Andy discounts Paul components consistently; Universal and Jenson are good vendors) and across both ponds. Work it all out up front, make the cost-effective purchases to control item and shipping costs. Some places in the UK have free shipping to US if you buy enough - Wiggle, Ribble, Chain Reaction.
$1200 here, inclusive

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Old 11-23-16, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bulldog1935 View Post
I've done 5 - I work out the logistics in detail, shop from US vendors (Outside outfitters - even some things from Rivendell - their prices are great on many items - cable kit) and across both ponds. Work it all out up front, make the cost-effective purchases to control item and shipping costs. Some places in the UK have free shipping to US if you buy enough - Wiggle, Ribble, Chain Reaction.
Mmh awesome looks good! must have taken quite a lot of effort !
What's better then according to you, building or buying the already made bike ? And also how did you know what to do ? where did you inform yourself ?

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Old 11-23-16, 03:28 PM
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IMO, you can't walk into a bike shop with $1200 and walk out with a bike this cool.
At my really really good LBS, they always drool over my bikes when I bring them in - sometimes just for show-and-tell.
The point is, make it you.
Nobody sells a bike with my custom drivetrain, and I have a 400' climb with 14% grade to get home.
Hang out on as many bike forums as you can - a couple of google groups I can recommend are RBW owners bunch and iBoB. It's also a great place to get exceptional used stuff, like this Phil/Synergy wheelset built by Rich Lesnik. Frames, all kinds of drivetrain components including Carmina cranks, etc.



btw, there was a thread on iBob where a guy bought an old frame and spent $1800 at his LBS to build it.
Don't do that - get smart...

educate yourself - get smart about gearing, bottom brackets, axle spacing. How many gears do you need and how do you want to shift them?
For me, 8sp rear or lower I want friction. 9 or higher in the rear, I want index.


Of course I helped, but my daughter built her Team Fuji for a summer project a few summers ago, and we had it rolling for $750. Started with a good $150 frame purchase - the bike came with a good headset and BB - and used a crankset I already had around. Good buy on a handmade wheelset.



you definitely can't spend $750 in a bike shop and get a bike this cool.

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Old 11-23-16, 03:47 PM
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yeah, i guess you're right and also the self pleasure to build something this cool ! I will try to look things up ! thanks for the quick and elaborate responses !

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Old 11-23-16, 04:18 PM
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A friend who liked beer decided to try making his own. Spent hundreds of dollars on all the gear, and made his own beer. The stuff cost 3 times the price it cost to buy pre-made beer, and it tasted awful.

Short answer: Don't.
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Old 11-23-16, 04:37 PM
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don't rule out good ebay shopping. The used Ultegra derailleurs on my daughter's bike, and Daytona FD on my Moser ($17). The Moser above has a Centaur crankset $130 NOS, and unused Chorus brakes for $65 that had been removed from a floor bike to replace with newer skeleton brakes. Late but not the latest Campy on ebay can be a steal.
Paid $50 for the used Chorus brakes on my daughter's Fuji.

Also consider that you're doing something green by keeping another Chinese cookie offshore.

My buddy who also builds bikes (and his daughter built hers) has been brewing beer since we were in college together.
He homebrews Pliny the Elder, buying ingredients direct from Russian River Brewery.


SRAM 2-speed auto rear hub, Shimano front dyno (this bike is waiting on a light delivery from Peter White). He's talking about finding a better frame to upgrade, and everything he put on the bike is worth doing that.

another good idea, explore the current market for custom steel bikes - the guys on iBoB and RBW have already done this. Then buy yourself a quality used steel frame from the 80s or 90s and DIY for less. You can do the same thing on a $300 frame from the 90s that someone does today on a $2500 -$4000 custom frame.

here's a great example for you that just popped up on iBoB - https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...ob/mSwWaK6Qv6Y

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Old 11-23-16, 07:48 PM
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Building up a bike is great fun. bulldog1935, love those photos. So fun to see kids involved like that. Good stuff.

To the OP, start with a frame. Also think about what you're overall approach to parts will be. My normal approach is to grab closeout parts and (often) lightly used frames from eBay. So my bikes are a hodgepodge of unlikely parts that are a result of whatever deals I can find. That is one approach. Another approach is to aim for a specific look, and buy parts accordingly.

You'll spend more than to just buy a bike, and you'll spend on tools as well, but you'll learn a lot in return.
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Old 11-23-16, 10:17 PM
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I've done it, not nearly as well as @bulldog1935 , and it is a lot of fun. But if it's your first time doing this again, I'd buy something used with a frame in good shape (after you read up on the subject- some suggestions below). And I wouldn't use all of that budget- because you are going to want to upgrade something soon.
Google Sheldon Brown, go to the Park Tools website, GCN, and Youtube "How do I fix...[whatever]." Good places to start.
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Old 11-23-16, 10:29 PM
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agree, be patient and get a frame in good shape. I paid $175 for my Moser frame, $150 for my daughter's Fuji - both ebay auctions, and $300 for my Viner CX 3rd offer that the buyer accepted. I paid $550 for the International frame, not an unrealistic price for that frame, and I sold a Nitto big rear rack and set of waxed canvas panniers to pay half of that.
Some kind of build stand is helpful - I have a $100 Xtools repair stand from UK, which is nice, but for starting a bare frame, I prefer using my old Turbotrainer.



but if you have to, good straps from the ceiling will get you started, too - and I usually end up moving the bike between all 3 for different tasks.
(the Turbotrainer is the ultimate for wrapping bars)


sometimes a strap from the ceiling beam will let you get to things that would be tenuously unstable on the repair stand


here's the full story on my daughter's Fuji - we found two frames in her size and bid on both - a gorgeous Geliano, which outpaced our interest
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/dau...am-fuji.89366/

also don't hesitate to get to know and utilize your local bike shop for things they can better do than you can - maybe rebuild BB and headset, frame alignment, attaching a recessed nut brake to a rear bridge that wasn't made for it - removing a fixed BB cup. If you need couple of short cable housings, they can make short work of that kind of stuff, and have better tools than we can afford. My guys know me, and I get curb service for most stuff - I'll leave a bike a couple of days for frame alignment.

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Old 11-23-16, 10:53 PM
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dad not there to teach you? read a book.. bike mechanics, in your library, down town .. ?
begin buying tools too..



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Old 11-23-16, 11:35 PM
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I would buy a frame and fork set that has the bottom bracket and headset already installed.
That way you don't have to buy a bunch of special tools...

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Old 11-24-16, 01:40 AM
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Thank you all for the responses !
SO if i understood correctly:
i should get a frame ( a good deal from eBay or something ) then the other parts by scavenging bike sites and whatnot. Also I should try to my local bike shop for advice and directions . I also should then decide what i want for my bike with the parts and all. And try not to look for the best expensive stuff right now.
Also as I am working right now and plan to get some vacation around may so that's when i would build the thing Is there a period where there's a great bundle of gear parts for cheaper?
Big Bike related stores are okay or are they a big No-No ?
Thank you,
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Old 11-24-16, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tchiby View Post
SO if i understood correctly:
i should get a frame ( a good deal from eBay or something ) then the other parts by scavenging bike sites and whatnot.
I think I'm the guy who mentioned scavenging bike parts. I only meant to share my own experience. I wasn't intending to put scavenging out there as the "one true way".

I'm a little worried you might be getting in over your head.
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Old 11-24-16, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexCyclistRoch View Post
A friend who liked beer decided to try making his own. Spent hundreds of dollars on all the gear, and made his own beer. The stuff cost 3 times the price it cost to buy pre-made beer, and it tasted awful.

Short answer: Don't.
On the other hand, I brewed lots of beer, cheaper than I could buy it, and most as good as the micro-brews.
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Old 11-24-16, 07:36 AM
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frame first and that's going to decide everything else - what you can build and what parts you're going to need. Very close second is the wheelset - it's the most expensive thing to change on the bike.

The reason I was leaning you toward 90s steel frames is rear axles are 130mm. This will give you the best wheel, tire and gear options using modern 8, 9, 10 or 11-sp cassettes for your rear cogs.

Looking for a frame, look for condition and price - and especially a size that will fit you correctly - but you're also going to need to know generally what kind of bike you're wanting to build and how you plan to use it. Utility bike? Go fast? Pavement only vs. all roads and smooth trails? Curb hopping?
Riding position, wheel size and tire capacity, type of brakes - you should have this thought out before you buy the frame.

You've actually given yourself a pretty generous budget at $1000. If you could find a good $200 frame, you could build your bike with well-shopped all new parts for that

Throwing out my Moser again, I first had it rolling for $650. But that was using an old gratis tubular wheelset (not hard to find, but too hard for most to live with), threaded freewheel type (cheap Zenith freewheel), and a few drivetrain parts I already had around. I upgraded those through some more frugal shopping and the all-Campy bike you see above has between $1100 and $1200 into it.


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Old 11-24-16, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
I think I'm the guy who mentioned scavenging bike parts. I only meant to share my own experience. I wasn't intending to put scavenging out there as the "one true way".

I'm a little worried you might be getting in over your head.
Lol no don't worry, i'm not gonna go crazy about finding the one true piece !

And @bulldog1935 I plan on using my bike on mountain roads ( clean ones but with a lot of ups and down) mostly but i also plan on using it sometimes in my city... also i use retro pedaling for brakes.
And 1000$ I was jus throwing it out there because i didn't know the price points.
I am using a quite crappy bike I bought like 6-7 years ago when a was like 17 and I wanted to change because I am getting quite into biking.
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Old 11-24-16, 03:41 PM
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You definitely should visit iBoB - it's mostly about All road bikes for street, gravel and singletrack.
In the mountains, cantilever brakes are best - a good front brake is a necessity, because it does most of the work.
A good 700c CX or 26" steel mountain frame (non suspension) should build into just what you want - 35mm to 42mm tires.
You might want to look at my '92 Viner in detail and especially my drivetrain. This is set up as five narrow cruising gears with 4 wider climbing gears. When you need narrow steps to climb excessively long/steep grades, go to the granny ring. The 24" gear will climb 18% grade. It's a really versatile drivetrain and really simple to operate.


Miche 9sp custom cassette 12-29t, Microshift R10 RD, Ultegra CX70 FD, Sugino XD2 triple set up as wide compact double with guard, 42/25T. 111mm bottom bracket.

Shifts mindlessly with Microshift thumbies. Also doesn't have to be upright - it would run great with dirt drops (actually what it's designed for).


It has 30mm Strada Bianca tires in the photo just above, but I'm running 38mm Barlow Pass now.
The Barlows are in the first photo I posted on the thread.

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Old 11-24-16, 04:13 PM
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If you're going to mostly keep it on pavement, here's the 7-sp (freewheel) cyclotouriste triple on my '74 Raleigh Interational (this was on my '77 Raleigh Grand Prix from college for four years before I crashed the frame). Rear axle is 126mm - both Raleigh frames were 120mm rear axle and the rear triangles realigned to take the 126mm axle.
This is basically the same gearing as the compact double on the Viner, but a little more complicated using older hardware. 32mm tires are the biggest that will fit the rear triangles.
(Also possible to find 126mm cassette hubs for 7-speed - I did this because I got a good deal on the quality freewheel wheelset)
The triple is set up as half-steps + granny, the idea being the 2 big rings split the wide gear steps between the rear cogs, giving you narrow gear steps from end to end

This friction shifts (I'm using bar ends).
Suntour Cyclone GT RD, Suntour winner freewheel 12-30t; Shimano 600EX FD, Sun XCD crank arms with TA triple stack 46/42/26T.

The cyclotouriste triple crank requires a 122mm (ish) asymmetric BB which I did with a 121mm SKF bottom bracket using a 2.5mm spacer to make it asymmetric (there's also a 4mm spacer available if you need more chainstay clearance).


between the 3x7 half step triple and 2x9 wide compact double -
On the 2x9 wide compact double, you almost never shift up front except when you really need the granny to climb steep - then you have a gang of narrow low gears to match any grade.
On the 3x7 half-step triple, usually shift more often between the half steps and shift less often in the rear, but it's a lot of fun when you get used to it.

My algorithm for the half steps is get on the big ring as soon as you can and always shift first up front - first take the half step down to climb, then shift in the rear as you need it. Cresting the hill, again shift first to the big ring, then shift in the rear as you speed up. The little granny ring works the same way on either setup - a gang of narrow low gears.

But with either setup, you can always find a perfect gear for any grade with any load.

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Old 11-24-16, 07:52 PM
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Self build

FWIW, Im currently in process of building a gravel bike. Was going to buy bottom line Salsa Vaya, but I hate the drivetrain, and brakes. Total cost for changing it to something more fitting was going to be at least $1600-1700 with taxes. Finally went another direction. Bought a Soma fab frame, groupset, brakes, wheels from the UK then other components from various vendors through Amazon. Direct costs for bike components is about $1270 with nearly everything free shipping. Indirect costs are less than $100. These consist of star nut tool, brake bleed kit, parts to make DIY headset press and brown race setter, misc items and a limited amount of shipping. The result with he a far better drive train, better brakes, carbon fork I would not have gotten otherwise, custom color components, bottom brack of the BSA variety, carbon stem, seatpost, misc items. To he fair I had the handlebars, seat, stem, and seatpost (carbon parts are various chinese carbon but excellent quality). So full build would he maybe another hundred.

All this tk say you maybe able to save some if careful and smart, but you can easily end up more expensive, but it will he YOUR bike in every way. Where you would lose bigtime is buying tools. Some tools like a headset press are rarely used, others like hex and torx wrenches get used often. So dont forget to take this into consideration. I had nearly all the tools I needed, but I have collected those over a couple of years. I like working on my bikes, so for me, that is part of the enjoyment of cycling. But that certainly not for everyone. Take these things into consideration as well.
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Old 11-25-16, 11:04 AM
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alright lol you are all giving me a lot of information ( and Thank you for it ), I have to take some time to process it. I will try to go and look for a frame and a direction for where i want to go with this project and definitely visit IBob !

And also a 26'' frame wouldn't be to small ? or is it not relevant ?

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