Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

basket ball shoes, works for me

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

basket ball shoes, works for me

Old 12-03-16, 06:15 AM
  #26  
12strings
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Madison, IN
Posts: 1,352

Bikes: 2015 Jamis Quest Comp

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 269 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Maxacceleration View Post
If you are riding in bassetball shoes or something like that, it means you are not a cyclist, only that you ride a bike.
Buying your bassetball shoes at wallmart confirms this. I can't believe people defend this as efficient riding (lets not call it cycling).
Its amazing how many non efficient riders there are [on this forum].
But go ahead if it makes you happy!
Cycling = "the sport or activity of riding a bicycle."

Cyclist = "a person who rides a bicycle."

(From the dictionary) 😊
12strings is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 06:45 AM
  #27  
edawg55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Columbus, Ohio Go Buckeyes!
Posts: 138

Bikes: Raleigh Merit 3

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I scored a pair of Nike Flex Experience Rn 4 Prem Running Shoe's for $30 on clearance at Kohl's. Narrow shoe which helps me get my shoe out of my toe clips plus the color matches my bike. lol I'm looking for a deal on clip-less pedals and shoes. I just started cycling this summer and I didn't realize cycling is expensive.
edawg55 is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 06:51 AM
  #28  
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,672

Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 755 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by edawg55 View Post
I scored a pair of Nike Flex Experience Rn 4 Prem Running Shoe's for $30 on clearance at Kohl's. Narrow shoe which helps me get my shoe out of my toe clips plus the color matches my bike. lol I'm looking for a deal on clip-less pedals and shoes. I just started cycling this summer and I didn't realize cycling is expensive.
It doesn't have to be.
__________________
Excuse me if I, have some place in my mind,
Where I go time to time
02Giant is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 07:01 AM
  #29  
edawg55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Columbus, Ohio Go Buckeyes!
Posts: 138

Bikes: Raleigh Merit 3

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 02Giant View Post
It doesn't have to be.
I started with a Walmart bike. lol I'm a slickdealer 24/7 so I'm all about saving $. lol It's pricey when you first start cycling if you want quality things to last. imo I guess that's a subjective though.
edawg55 is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 07:09 AM
  #30  
bulldog1935
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Posts: 2,721

Bikes: '74 Raleigh International utility; '98 Moser Forma road; '92 Viner Pro CX upright

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I discovered a half-dozen years ago, after I bought a nice-looking pair of narrow tennis shoes for my toe clip bike, that long rides would give me plantar faciitis.
Part of my pedaling energy was going into straining my arch instead of moving me forward.

Next set of shoes were Chrome Kursk with stiff shanks, which eliminated arch strain. (good google shoppping found Navy blue for $35 - apparently an undesirable color, but a great buy)
They were tough to get in and out past the toe straps because of a style choice in the shoe design - a fat rubber strap around the toe box, ala Keds.

Reminiscing about my great Avocet touring shoes from 1978, which I never took off until they wore through,
and just for this bike, I finally broke down ordered a pair of Hibbel leather touring shoes from Mamnick in UK.
It honestly was about the function and not the form. Delighted with their slippery ingress and egress past the toe straps.
They were my birthday present to me, and my choice for this bike.



btw, arch strain is something I don't get on my thin, spiked platform pedals - my Merrells are running shoes, and my Merrell sandals stick equally well.


Last edited by bulldog1935; 12-03-16 at 07:14 AM.
bulldog1935 is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 10:35 AM
  #31  
linberl
Senior Member
 
linberl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,349

Bikes: 2017 Bike Friday PakiT. Dahon Mu Uno (trailer bike) Sold: 2003 Bike Friday NWT, 1997 Trek 720, 1993 Trek 520)

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 908 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Maxacceleration View Post
If you are riding in bassetball shoes or something like that, it means you are not a cyclist, only that you ride a bike.
Buying your bassetball shoes at wallmart confirms this. I can't believe people defend this as efficient riding (lets not call it cycling).
Its amazing how many non efficient riders there are [on this forum].
But go ahead if it makes you happy!
Wow. So where does the judgement stop? Must one wear lycra? Use clipless? Ride a certain type of bicycle?
Personally, I think if you ride a bike, you're a cyclist. If you walk you are a pedestrian, doesn't matter what kind of shoes you wear. If you drive a car, you are a motorist, doesn't matter what kind of car you drive.

I guess people who ride to work, commuting in their work shoes, are not cyclists either. Apparently it is only for sport riders in specific attire - who knew????
linberl is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 10:45 AM
  #32  
bulldog1935
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Posts: 2,721

Bikes: '74 Raleigh International utility; '98 Moser Forma road; '92 Viner Pro CX upright

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
it's the culture here (or really lack of culture) - I use Edit Ignore List.
bulldog1935 is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 04:02 PM
  #33  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 5,525

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1318 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Maxacceleration View Post
If you are riding in bassetball shoes or something like that, it means you are not a cyclist, only that you ride a bike.
Buying your bassetball shoes at wallmart confirms this.

I don't really care for not being called a "real cyclist", I only ride for my own enjoyment and I don't care what
" cycling elitists " think of me...I spend about $140 dollars on my Nike Air Force 1 hi-top sneakers which I bought at a sports store and not wallmart.
wolfchild is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 07:17 PM
  #34  
Maxacceleration
I like bikes
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NCW
Posts: 159

Bikes: A couple new and a couple old

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tough opinion I know guys. Sneakers & toe clips are great for occasional riding.
But if you want to hack around in your hiking boots or bassetball shoes, go for it! That is your culture.
And yes, getting into cycling can be an expensive thing to do. I really do understand if its economics that hold you back.
Or maybe its your sense of fashion.
I semi apologize for that strong opinion. But you are missing a lot of efficiency and power not being clicked in.
There are a lot of nice, and inexpensive casual cycling shoes around these days.

Originally Posted by bulldog1935 View Post
it's the culture here (or really lack of culture) - I use Edit Ignore List.
There really should be a bmx pedals on road bike thread... I'm sure there would be a big following.

Last edited by Maxacceleration; 12-03-16 at 07:21 PM.
Maxacceleration is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 08:41 PM
  #35  
bulldog1935
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Posts: 2,721

Bikes: '74 Raleigh International utility; '98 Moser Forma road; '92 Viner Pro CX upright

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
You might be surprised. Chromag Radar and Blackspire El Gordo narrow platforms actually work very nicely on road bikes if you have narrow feet for them.
Nobody would want to race on them, but taking a road bike downtown where you might have a lot of stop-and-go, they're really nice.
I ran the El Gordo's on my semi-upright Raleigh Utility bike, because of its low BB, and when I brought that bike to Sunday morning uptown to downtown riding group, it was always guys on road bikes who asked about them.

Last edited by bulldog1935; 12-03-16 at 11:04 PM.
bulldog1935 is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 09:35 PM
  #36  
capnjonny 
Senior Member
 
capnjonny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Saratoga calif.
Posts: 482

Bikes: Miyata 610(66cm), GT Vantara Hybrid (64cm), Nishiki International (64cm), Peugeot rat rod (62 cm), Trek 800 Burning Man helicopter bike, Bob Jackson frame (to be restored?) plus a never ending stream of neglected waifs from the Bike exchange.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
am I kewel now

I admit, I don't spend a lot of effort trying to be cool. I don't have any spandex, I don't ride a carbon bike and I am not in training for anything.

I have done a lot of things in my life that many of the cool kids haven't though. I have done a 9 month world tour, a 2 month walking tour of Japan, and traveled to Chile and Russia . I have restored and driven a 1962 Alfa Giulietta and a 1960 Maserati 3500 GT. I have owned a Cal 30 and Columbia 36 Sailboat , both of which I heavily customized.I built my own house and most of the furniture in it.

I did all this while working as a carpenter, general contractor, and construction superintendent.

I am not trying to brag here. I mention all this because the way I was able to do all this was by being frugal and by doing it all myself.

My involvement with bikes includes doing all my own repairs / mods and buying used equipment (often from the bike exchange) . This has allowed me to have a stable of quality bikes to ride and work on at a very modest cost.

I live in Silicon valley where people are riding $4000 carbon bikes and dress like they are on a Tour de France team and that's o/k with me. Maybe if I were working at Google and making $150,000 a year That would make sense to me but I don't so I get to have toys by being frugal, always being on the lookout for a good deal, and being willing to put in some sweat equity.

If you think that owning a fancy bike makes you better than me that's o/k . I don't mind .

Those of you that are training for the Olympics or a Triathlon I can appreciate the effort. I was a competitive swimmer back in the day and I know the dedication it takes to compete. I suspect that you are not the ones dissing other people for not meeting your "standards" You are too busy working your butts off training.
capnjonny is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 09:44 PM
  #37  
bulldog1935
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Posts: 2,721

Bikes: '74 Raleigh International utility; '98 Moser Forma road; '92 Viner Pro CX upright

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
yeah, getting called out by see me was worth a block
bulldog1935 is offline  
Old 12-03-16, 09:56 PM
  #38  
anonymousperson
Member
 
anonymousperson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 40

Bikes: Trek 2300 (1988)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am a runner (runner because I run) for 10s of years and started riding this year. I've found my most comfortable shoes are my running shoes with my Mortonís neuroma. I have tried many different shoes including cycling shoes and finally end up back on my running shoes on MTB paddles. Running shoes are actually light and great in ventilating in the summer but recently I just put a cover on them for the cold, also the solid shanks on the arch area really help.

I don't think I will ever be into Maxacceleration's culture, nor I want to, but I surely enjoy riding.
anonymousperson is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 07:06 AM
  #39  
Wileyrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tucson Az
Posts: 1,300

Bikes: 2015 Ridley Fenix, 1983 Team Fuji, 1985 Novara Strada, 2013 BD Motobecane 650ht, 90 Trek 850

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
On my road bike I'm clipped in, but on my mtn bike I ride on platforms with half clips, and my choice of shoe is whatever pair of gym shoes are too worn out for the gym.

I keep thinking about getting something stiffer as I get a bit more serious about mtn biking, but they work for now.
Wileyrat is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 08:08 AM
  #40  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 7,522

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
I am a great supporter of riding in what ever works for you. For me riding my recumbents it is a regular T-shirt that most of them I get doing club rides. I wear rugby shorts I buy for $15. Of course since I ride bents I dont have to buy high price cycling gear to protect me from my bike or trike.

However the one place I do bow to cycling convention is cycling shoes. They have provision for clipless pedals, and have the stiff soles. I use clips for the trike since IMO you need them for safety on a tadpole trike. On the bent bike I use a different pair of bike shoes but use platform pedals.
rydabent is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 08:15 AM
  #41  
baldilocks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 376

Bikes: Giant ATX Lite ,Schwinn Mesa, Others

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Maxacceleration View Post
If you are riding in bassetball shoes or something like that, it means you are not a cyclist, only that you ride a bike.
Buying your bassetball shoes at wallmart confirms this. I can't believe people defend this as efficient riding (lets not call it cycling).
Its amazing how many non efficient riders there are [on this forum].
But go ahead if it makes you happy!
I see you like bikes, perhaps one day you will learn to like people who ride them.
baldilocks is online now  
Old 12-04-16, 09:22 AM
  #42  
MRT2
Senior Member
 
MRT2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,875

Bikes: 2012 Salsa Casseroll, 2009 Kona Blast, 1997 Bianchi Advantage, 1994 Trek 930.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 828 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by TreyWestgate View Post
Got some AND1 basketball shoes and these work good on a bike and here's why.

You might disagree that they are not for riding, but here's what makes it work for me.

Soles are not too thick. I would even ride barefoot if it wouldn't hurt because of how I could grab the pedal with my toes.

I already can do this if the sole is not too thick

They also have some grip but not too much and shoes with aggressive lugs simply don't stay on the pedal straight.

Also they have some ankle support which helps keep my foot steady.

Does anyone ride in this?.

I know most of you would want something more firm but I also got these on sale at Walmart for just 11.38$!
High tops and flexy soles are not optimal for cycling. You want your ankle unencumbered so it can move with your pedal stroke. Flexy soles stress the arch.

That said, for casual riding of 45 minutes or less, you can pretty much ride with anything.

I don't understand this aversion by some to cycling specific gear. It is one thing to say you just bought a bike and don't have the funds to buy cycling shoes. Another to say you prefer basketball shoes, or hiking boots, or bowling shoes, or polished wingtips to cycling specific gear.

Would you play basketball in wingtips? play tennis in running shoes? run in hiking boots? Would you bowl in tennis shoes? Would you play golf in baseball cleats, or wingtips? If not, how is that any different than cycling in basketball shoes?
MRT2 is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 09:26 AM
  #43  
bulldog1935
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Posts: 2,721

Bikes: '74 Raleigh International utility; '98 Moser Forma road; '92 Viner Pro CX upright

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
maybe it's not an aversion as much as an adamant right of choice

when you get choices jammed down your throat by a marketing machine and individuals you run across - or even friends - sometimes you just smile and do it your way
bulldog1935 is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 09:28 AM
  #44  
MRT2
Senior Member
 
MRT2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,875

Bikes: 2012 Salsa Casseroll, 2009 Kona Blast, 1997 Bianchi Advantage, 1994 Trek 930.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 828 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by bulldog1935 View Post
maybe it's not an aversion as much as an adamant right of choice
Fine but it still doesn't address my point. Do these jack of all trades people own just one pair of shoes for all their athletic and life activities, or to they buy specific shoes for other activities? If so, what makes those activities different from cycling?
MRT2 is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 09:32 AM
  #45  
MRT2
Senior Member
 
MRT2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,875

Bikes: 2012 Salsa Casseroll, 2009 Kona Blast, 1997 Bianchi Advantage, 1994 Trek 930.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 828 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by bulldog1935 View Post
maybe it's not an aversion as much as an adamant right of choice

when you get choices jammed down your throat by a marketing machine and individuals you run across - or even friends - sometimes you just smile and do it your way
No marketing hype associated with basketball shoes.
MRT2 is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 09:34 AM
  #46  
bulldog1935
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Posts: 2,721

Bikes: '74 Raleigh International utility; '98 Moser Forma road; '92 Viner Pro CX upright

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
My buddy has preached clipless pedals at me since 1985 (we go back to 6th grade) - I've seen him fall over twice at lights.
His daughter rides clipless with him on their tandem, but when she built her bike she took the clipless pedals off and replaced them with platforms - he was mildly disappointed.

I get in my digs about supple tires - in fact, his city tires get 400% more flats than my supple tires, and I double his miles.
He can knock his lights out, and so you can you.

I have 3 different kayak shoes.
bulldog1935 is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 09:38 AM
  #47  
JonathanGennick 
Senior Member
 
JonathanGennick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Munising, Michigan, USA
Posts: 3,986

Bikes: Priority 600, Priority Continuum, Devinci Dexter

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 632 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I'll just leave the following link while also keeping in mind that enjoyment from cycling is not always about max efficiency:

https://www.bikejames.com/strength/d...ipless-pedals/

The numbers at the end of the video are interesting, and are the results from an actual comparison test during which oxygen intake was measured and blood lactose was tested.

My take is that there really wasn't much difference in results either way.
JonathanGennick is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 09:39 AM
  #48  
TenSpeedV2
Senior Member
 
TenSpeedV2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 4,364

Bikes: Felt TK2, Felt Z5

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 940 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It really depends on what you need/want out of cycling. If all you do is get out and do casual slow rides, regular attire is often fine. If you ride for distance/speed you will more than likely want to be in some cycling specific attire. For example - there is a local group who meet on Friday nights and go for a casual ride exploring the city/parks/whatever. They average somewhere in the 10-12 mph range and often end up at a local restaurant or bar for after ride festivities. Casual clothing is absolutely perfect for this type of ride. There is also a local group that meets Wednesday nights and go for an all out blistering pace group ride that is supposed to average 17 mph but often ends up in the 20+ mph range. I have ridden both, and the attire for each ride is much different. Rugby shorts, a cotton t shirt and high tops might be fine for that casual ride, but for the fast ride, not a chance.

And I will have to disagree with the everyone on a bike is a cyclist statement. That guy riding at night the wrong way down the bike lane in all black with no lights on, carrying a bag of bottles to recycle or whatever, that is just a guy on a bike. Might have a DUI, might not have a car, might be homeless. We all know this guy, we see him, but that is not a cyclist.
TenSpeedV2 is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 09:42 AM
  #49  
bulldog1935
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Posts: 2,721

Bikes: '74 Raleigh International utility; '98 Moser Forma road; '92 Viner Pro CX upright

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by bulldog1935 View Post
maybe it's not an aversion as much as an adamant right of choice

when you get choices jammed down your throat by a marketing machine and individuals you run across - or even friends - sometimes you just smile and do it your way
You'll see a similar backlash to marketing images in fly fishing (the 3rd largest sports entertainment market next to cycling and golf). Often on the river you see neophytes dressed like the LL Bean catalog who smirk at people with fiberglass fly rods and click-pawl reels from the 70s (and the reel below from the 30s).
(Mine have fished on national tv - twice).

there is a similar smirk that raises its head on this thread every few posts


Last edited by bulldog1935; 12-04-16 at 10:09 AM.
bulldog1935 is offline  
Old 12-04-16, 10:04 AM
  #50  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 5,525

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1318 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
Do these jack of all trades people own just one pair of shoes for all their athletic and life activities, or to they buy specific shoes for other activities?

I have a pair of weightlifting shoes which I use specifically for when I do weightlifting.... but I absolutely refuse to own a pair of cycling shoes and use sneakers when riding my bike.


Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
If so, what makes those activities different from cycling?

I've been a commuter/recreational cyclists for 9 years and I find clipless pedals, cycling shoes and spandex costumes unnecessary. I enjoy the freedom to choose whatever shoes and clothes I want when I ride my bike and I avoid making myself look like a cyclist.
wolfchild is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.