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Local Bike Shops -Disappointing Performance

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Local Bike Shops -Disappointing Performance

Old 01-14-17, 05:19 AM
  #76  
Jeff Neese
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Got links to any sites that stock those Shimano chains? The handful of places I've tried always seem to be out of stock.
Here you go:

LMGTFY
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Old 01-14-17, 05:54 AM
  #77  
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Old 01-15-17, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
...But it was annoying that I'd asked for chains for a 7-speed and got chains for 6-speed bikes....
Responding so that your post doesn't confuse newbies. There are no differences between 6 and 7 speed chains, at least in the Shimano world.
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Old 01-15-17, 11:21 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
Responding so that your post doesn't confuse newbies. There are no differences between 6 and 7 speed chains, at least in the Shimano world.
Surprised me too, but KMC differentiates between them although not consistently on their package, website or by vendors. For example the Z33 chains I bought to splice together a couple of weeks ago for a long wheelbase bike (needs 122 links) were marked as 18 speed on the front (and on their shop chart in PDF version), but 6-12-18-21 on the back. Some vendors list it as 5-8 speed; others as 5 or 6 speed only. It's an ordinary looking chain, and appeared identical to the brown/grey Z7 chain originally supplied with the bike, but without a micrometer I couldn't measure it to determine any minor differences in pin length, etc. Some KMCs are 7.1, others are 7.3, and while it's usually marked on the boxes that info is not consistently supplied on KMC's website, so ordering online can be a crap shoot.

And I'm not sure whether it's critical with a bike using Shimano's RevoShift twisty grip shifters.

But the main reason for the skipping on the two smallest sprockets appears to be wear, so I'll replace it. Both the new Z33 and relatively new Shimano HG50 chains skipped on the two smallest cogs, but were fine under pressure on the less worn gears.
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Old 01-15-17, 05:55 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
...But the main reason for the skipping on the two smallest sprockets appears to be wear, so I'll replace it. Both the new Z33 and relatively new Shimano HG50 chains skipped on the two smallest cogs, but were fine under pressure on the less worn gears.
It's sort of common wisdom to replace the rear cassette or freewheel and the chain at the same time. Sometimes you can get away with it but I don't generally change one without the other. Otherwise you do get skipping and that has happened to me too after putting on a new chain. Putting on a new cassette fixed the skipping.

The reason I stick with Shimano HG cassettes and chains exclusively is that unless something is sized or set up wrong, it's always going to work flawlessly together, and set up correctly will shift very, very nice. Smooth, quiet, perfect. I have two set up with friction shifting and one indexed and they all shift equally well. So rather than experiment with KMC or SRAM chains that are supposed to be just as good or maybe even better, I'd rather not take the chance. Also one set of tools and spare parts that are always compatible together. I keep a spare HG50 cassette and several spare chains, along with a generous supply of Shimano link pins.
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Old 01-20-17, 10:33 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by bmthom.gis View Post
I've never had a tube "go bad" on me or need to be replaced because it was of lesser quality..
I sure have, including a pair of brand new Kendas whose valve stems tore out on a new bike before I even rode the darn thing!

Higher quality tubes are more resistant to puncturing, too.

After those Kendas, I now buy nothing but Michelin A-1's....and so far, I've been running the same tubes I bought 5 years ago on one of my bikes, and have not had one flat. (Of course, I ride Gatorskins, but even with them, the cheapo tubes would often develop flats or small leaks for no apparent reason)
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Old 01-21-17, 06:09 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
I sure have, including a pair of brand new Kendas whose valve stems tore out on a new bike before I even rode the darn thing!

Higher quality tubes are more resistant to puncturing, too.

After those Kendas, I now buy nothing but Michelin A-1's....and so far, I've been running the same tubes I bought 5 years ago on one of my bikes, and have not had one flat. (Of course, I ride Gatorskins, but even with them, the cheapo tubes would often develop flats or small leaks for no apparent reason)
Kenda has a line of cheap tubes labeled "Q-Tube". I bought four of them once and had two of them bad right out of the box. It wasn't the stem itself but the seam around the stem. I assume the Sunlite tubes that a lot of the local shops sell are the same. I stick with Continental and Schwalbe which I have to buy online. I've had good luck also with Specialized. There are plenty of good ones, but make no mistake - plenty of cheap ones that I won't trust any more. They are manufactured specifically to hit that sub-$5 dollar price point and you actually get what you pay for. They are not even individually inspected off the assembly line. They use "sampling" which means they pull out random samples, maybe one every ten thousand, and test it. They actually know that some defective tubes are slipping by. No thanks.

It might have been true in the past that "a tube is a tube" but not any more. Vast differences in quality.

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Old 01-21-17, 08:06 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
Kenda has a line of cheap tubes labeled "Q-Tube". I bought four of them once and had two of them bad right out of the box. It wasn't the stem itself but the seam around the stem. I assume the Sunlite tubes that a lot of the local shops sell are the same. I stick with Continental and Schwalbe which I have to buy online. I've had good luck also with Specialized. There are plenty of good ones, but make no mistake - plenty of cheap ones that I won't trust any more. They are manufactured specifically to hit that sub-$5 dollar price point and you actually get what you pay for. They are not even individually inspected off the assembly line. They use "sampling" which means they pull out random samples, maybe one every ten thousand, and test it. They actually know that some defective tubes are slipping by. No thanks.

It might have been true in the past that "a tube is a tube" but not any more. Vast differences in quality.
Who makes Specialized's tubes?



(Also, Q-tubes is the house brand of QBP)
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Old 01-21-17, 11:38 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
Kenda has a line of cheap tubes labeled "Q-Tube". I bought four of them once and had two of them bad right out of the box. It wasn't the stem itself but the seam around the stem. I assume the Sunlite tubes that a lot of the local shops sell are the same. I stick with Continental and Schwalbe which I have to buy online. I've had good luck also with Specialized. There are plenty of good ones, but make no mistake - plenty of cheap ones that I won't trust any more. They are manufactured specifically to hit that sub-$5 dollar price point and you actually get what you pay for. They are not even individually inspected off the assembly line. They use "sampling" which means they pull out random samples, maybe one every ten thousand, and test it. They actually know that some defective tubes are slipping by. No thanks.

It might have been true in the past that "a tube is a tube" but not any more. Vast differences in quality.
Very true. I would trust the Continental or Specialized or other brand-names known for quality. It when one tries to save a buck, that the trouble begins when it comes to tubes. Pay $2 or $3 for some crappy bargain-basement tube online, and you can expect flats, and to be going through tubes and patches continually. Pay $5 or $6 for a tube, and they'll last forever.

Of course, the tubes that many LBS's sell for $5 or $6 are probably the $2 or $3 online ones.....

Ha! Sunlite! When I first got back into cycling, not knowing any better, I ordered a pair of Sunlite tubes to keep on-hand as replacements- my very first online order of cycling stuff, ever. The tubes arrived with the rest of the stuff I had ordered. I immediately knew that I gad made a mistake in ordering the Sunlites! The little individual boxes they were in were HEAVY! I never remembered tubes being THAT heavy- especially for 1"-wide tires. I open the box, and took out a tube and unfurled it, and just looking at it, I said to myself "This is garbage". I put them in my box-O-cycling-stuff for a while "just in case" (In case I go insane? In case I meet someone whom I really dislike who needs a tube?....) and after they were a few months old, I just threw them out!

So that's one of the first things I learned when getting back into cycling: There is a HUGE difference in tubes, and tires. The only way I cheap-out on tubes is tires, is buying quality ones when they're on sale! What I went through on that first bike (Getting flats every hundred miles or so) was enough to make me realize that quality tubes and tires are about the most important thing when it comes to enjoying a pleasant cycling experience.
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Old 01-23-17, 09:57 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
Very true. I would trust the Continental or Specialized or other brand-names known for quality. It when one tries to save a buck, that the trouble begins when it comes to tubes. Pay $2 or $3 for some crappy bargain-basement tube online, and you can expect flats, and to be going through tubes and patches continually. Pay $5 or $6 for a tube, and they'll last forever.

Of course, the tubes that many LBS's sell for $5 or $6 are probably the $2 or $3 online ones.....

Ha! Sunlite! When I first got back into cycling, not knowing any better, I ordered a pair of Sunlite tubes to keep on-hand as replacements- my very first online order of cycling stuff, ever. The tubes arrived with the rest of the stuff I had ordered. I immediately knew that I gad made a mistake in ordering the Sunlites! The little individual boxes they were in were HEAVY! I never remembered tubes being THAT heavy- especially for 1"-wide tires. I open the box, and took out a tube and unfurled it, and just looking at it, I said to myself "This is garbage". I put them in my box-O-cycling-stuff for a while "just in case" (In case I go insane? In case I meet someone whom I really dislike who needs a tube?....) and after they were a few months old, I just threw them out!

So that's one of the first things I learned when getting back into cycling: There is a HUGE difference in tubes, and tires. The only way I cheap-out on tubes is tires, is buying quality ones when they're on sale! What I went through on that first bike (Getting flats every hundred miles or so) was enough to make me realize that quality tubes and tires are about the most important thing when it comes to enjoying a pleasant cycling experience.
My bike shops don't even carry that low quality of a tube. If I did have a problem with it being junked before I even rode on it, I'm sure they would give me a replacement. I'm not spending extra on Schwalbe or Conti tubes (which my shops also don't carry), when the usual Giant or Specialized or Sunlite works fine, and I don't have to go out of my way to find them.
Tubes are probably the discount I miss most about working in a shop. Cost is usually 2.00-2.50
Seriously though, buy whatever works for you
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Old 01-23-17, 10:40 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by bmthom.gis View Post
My bike shops don't even carry that low quality of a tube. If I did have a problem with it being junked before I even rode on it, I'm sure they would give me a replacement. I'm not spending extra on Schwalbe or Conti tubes (which my shops also don't carry), when the usual Giant or Specialized or Sunlite works fine, and I don't have to go out of my way to find them.
Tubes are probably the discount I miss most about working in a shop. Cost is usually 2.00-2.50
Seriously though, buy whatever works for you
I want to be there on the day you try returning a tube!

[In a Beavis voice]: "Ummmm...this tube like went...flat? Heh-heh".
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Old 01-23-17, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
I want to be there on the day you try returning a tube!

[In a Beavis voice]: "Ummmm...this tube like went...flat? Heh-heh".
My shops are cool. Would be zero problem if it were a manufacturing defect.
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Old 01-23-17, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
I want to be there on the day you try returning a tube!

[In a Beavis voice]: "Ummmm...this tube like went...flat? Heh-heh".
You're joking, but you have no idea how right you are.

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Old 01-23-17, 12:28 PM
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Fordtrax,

I understand your frustration but look at it from the shop's perspective for a minute. They are in business to make a profit. What moves off the floor quickly and is in demand is what they stock. Everything else pretty much is an aside for them so they don't stock much.

If I were a shop owner I wouldn't carry any brand-specific or model-specific electronic devices at all. I would only carry the staple computers that work on all bikes. I also wouldn't do any special orders without the full amount up-front and non-returnable. They cannot return merchandise from their suppliers so they don't want to get stuck.

However, this doesn't excuse that shop from over-charging for that setup you wanted. You rightfully challenged them on it. I wouldn't count that shop out just yet. I'd go back and try to make amends.
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Old 01-23-17, 02:06 PM
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The difference between a LBS and Online... Well you were able to return the product. Personally I was ordering car parts from an reputable online shop. After spending $3000 one day they sent me the wrong part. It was a huge gong show to try to get it exchanged never mind refunded. I had to buy the right part again, and it took over 3 months to get my money back, less re-stocking fee's shipping etc.
The $20 I thought I was saving turned out to be a loss of $70 and a huge waste of my time.

Two weeks isn't a long time to wait for something IMHO.
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Old 01-24-17, 02:46 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
I want to be there on the day you try returning a tube!

[In a Beavis voice]: "Ummmm...this tube like went...flat? Heh-heh".

When you install a new tube and it fails when you first inflate it, any bike store is going to take that back.

I think there's an unspoken rule of "you rolled it, you flatted it" and it can easily be determined whether a flat is puncture or seam if one wanted to go through the trouble. I think most shops would take those back too, although they don't really have to after you put it on the road.

For me it's all about reliability and convenience, not cost. If you ask me while I'm sitting in the grass by the side of the road changing a tire, whether I'd gladly pay the extra $3 to not have to change that tube, my answer is going to be Yes. Or ask me right when I'm getting ready for a ride and I have a flat on the bike I want to ride. Yes, I would pay $3 not to have to stop and change the tube, right there in my garage.

So to me, it's always worth $3 to not have to stop and change a tire, whether it's roadside or in my garage. I just make that decision ahead of time, that's all. Plus two $3 tubes is $6 anyway. Pay the money - buy better tubes. Besides tires and brakes, what is more critical on your bike than your tubes?
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Old 01-24-17, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
When you install a new tube and it fails when you first inflate it, any bike store is going to take that back.

I think there's an unspoken rule of "you rolled it, you flatted it" and it can easily be determined whether a flat is puncture or seam if one wanted to go through the trouble. I think most shops would take those back too, although they don't really have to after you put it on the road.

For me it's all about reliability and convenience, not cost. If you ask me while I'm sitting in the grass by the side of the road changing a tire, whether I'd gladly pay the extra $3 to not have to change that tube, my answer is going to be Yes. Or ask me right when I'm getting ready for a ride and I have a flat on the bike I want to ride. Yes, I would pay $3 not to have to stop and change the tube, right there in my garage.

So to me, it's always worth $3 to not have to stop and change a tire, whether it's roadside or in my garage. I just make that decision ahead of time, that's all. Plus two $3 tubes is $6 anyway. Pay the money - buy better tubes. Besides tires and brakes, what is more critical on your bike than your tubes?
Exactly. I've never had a problem with quality tubes- so even if they cost twice as much as cheap tubes, it would be well worth it, even if it were more than a mere $3 difference- not to mention that the good tubes last forever! (At this point, my tubes on Klein are so old, I should really change them, but I have a morbid curiosity to see how long they will keep going!)
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