Fortunately I don't often encounter trucks on my rides. But a seemingly impatient truck behind me is when I am the most uncomfortable on my bike. I have pulled off the road any number of times just to get out of that situation.

dave

I'm not convinced.

A central position might have made the OP more visible. However, if the OP was still hit, rather than a glancing blow knocking him into the ditch, he would have been hit squarely in the middle of the front end. Been tossed over the hood and into the windshield. And he wouldn't have walked away.

I do a lot of bike commuting from out of town, so my time on the road gets split, maybe 50/50 rural/urban.

I do like the rural areas, but one has to get quite far out to really get away from the traffic. Many (but not all) of the busy local rural roads have good shoulders. However, we also have a lot of urban streets have bike lanes which are better than the road shoulders. And, once I hit the riverside bike path network, one is quite well protected.

Many urban accidents are low-speed, and thus less damaging than the rare high speed rural accident.
Hard to say. It sounds like the OP was on side street and had either a real, or implied stop-sign.
Driver had right-of-way (but was out of lane).

Where was contact made? OP should have been behind the real or imaginary "Stop Line", which would have put him a few feet back from the intersection, and should have been reasonably safe, even with cutting traffic.

Was he already encroaching on the intersection at the time of impact?

Stop back from the intersection, put the foot down, and wait until the traffic clears, or intentions are clear.

That is exactly where I was, that is exactly what I thought, and I was extremely wrong about that and will not be making that mistake in the future.

dave

ps. Had I taken a 'car normal position' at the intersection it is conceivable that the car would have passed behind me (but probably not). I am not sure about that. This was not a 'corner cut in the usual corner cutting fashion' that we all have encountered many times.

Cars not squaring the turn and doing a large radius sweeping turn are all too common. The stop lines are based on a car making a left that's a sharp corner the way a right is, but drivers seeing all that daylight don't do it that way.

It's not only about not being seen because your on a bike. Drivers do the exact same thing even with/to cars.

I wish I had sketch capability, but if you draw a typical intersection, then use a compass to draw a left turn arc just clearing the inside corner, you'll have a sense of this path, and understand why you need to be well back from the stop line if you're not at the curb.

Except in this case I was at the curb (was not hit hard and landed on pinestraw).

dave

Hmmm....

I suppose there are times when S___ happens.

No doubt everything also happens very quickly. No time to dive for the bushes, especially if fully stopped.

I suppose the other thing is to be constantly scanning the road for future obstructions or danger points. Not quite the same situation, but whenever I see a truck that might cross my path, I start looking for "safe spots". I.E. I might pull right and stop early, even if I'm making a left-hand turn.

With a cross-walk, the stop line will be about 10 feet from the intersection.

I presume it is a bit closer without a crosswalk, but should be before the radius of the curb if there is one.

+1. My commute is half highway and half city. Traffic volume is the problematic piece. My $0.02.


With respect to my accident, I chose to tell the insurance company that I will be taking their client to small claims court to recover the cost of my glasses plus any court costs.

There is a place in hell for drivers who cut the corners like this.

From what I've seen, they'll need to build an annex.

Since there is now an accident report I am beginning to get mailings - ELABORATE things - from attorneys offering their legal services. Lots of paper and fancy marketing materials and one of them includes a DVD. Interesting.

dave

My thoughts exactly. Riding on the road around any cars is potentially dangerous and to assume that because you have the right to be there, everyone should be on the lookout for you, is folly. There is nothing worse for your visibility than hugging the curb where you blend in with trees etc but obviously this is the safest place to be in most situations. Quite a dilemma.

It is a very interesting (and important) question. Are you better off where you are more likely to be seen but more likely to be hit if you are not seen? Or where you are less likely to be seen and less likely to be hit if you are not seen?

I suspect the answer is "it depends" on lots of things.

dave

I am not going to read this whole thread, because I cannot understand event he first post.

As I see it. a cyclist was on the far right edge of the far right lane and a motorist coming from the cyclist's right at an intersection clipped him. This would put the car entirely in the right-hand lane of travel---and it is illegal for a driver to be there under any circumstances.

"I was riding in an small town/urban area yesterday on a side street approaching a kind of "through" local street. This is all 25 and/or 35 mph stuff and all 2 lanes/lightly traveled. I wanted to cross the through local street and a car was approaching from my right making a left turn from the through street to the street I was on. I was about as far to the right in my lane"

There is no way, unless the cyclist was proceeding Through the intersection, that the cyclist could have been at fault. if the cyclist was doing a rolling stop at a marked stop sing, the cyclist is at fault. If the cyclist was crossing a main road from a secondary road, the cyclist would be at fault.

Otherwise ...

I have ridden in dense urban traffic and quite dense suburban traffic for years. it is not inherently dangerous ... it demands a lot of the cyclist, however.

Possibly if the cyclist feels that the driver was at fault, the cyclist should actually file a complaint, instead of letting the police department file a vague report? People who are passive cannot expect others to take care of them ... why should anyone else help if you will not help yourself? if you choose to let it go ... so be it.

Sadly, even if you were insured, you deductible would probably equal the depreciated value of your bicycle ... that is how insurance companies make money.

If the driver were found to be at fault, you could certainly expect to collect your repair costs, at least. Small claims court might be a good route to investigate.

Otherwise ... all I can say is ride smart and ride safe. I have experimented with riding crazy, riding lazy, and riding carelessly, and all of them hurt.

On a rural road with low traffic, but with a good (but cluttered?) shoulder, you can always ride to the left of the white line, then move right when traffic appears.

This is unimportant but very interesting to me. I could not figure out why the 'context of this discussion' just didn't seem to fit what I experienced. I realized this morning (when I was, for whatever reason, trying to figure out just how the curved shape of the cut in my head would match a side view mirror impact in this situation) that this lady did NOT cut her corner. What she did was to make a 'very conservative and extremely proper turn into my lane'. At the time of impact I was drifting pretty much parallel to my lane and she was going in a direction almost 180 degrees to me (not across my path). Like I said I think that she got distracted by something.

FWIW.

dave

This can be debated forever. In my experience, I'm better off where I am most likely to be seen. The one time I was mistakenly hit from behind, it wouldn't have mattered where I was in the lane. The road was very narrow and I was hit by an SUV that took up the full width of the lane. I have also been clipped by a passing motorist but given that they drove off without stopping, and without their passenger side rear view mirror, I can only assume that the close pass/clipping was intentional. Again, happened on a narrow road and me being two feet further right (about all I could have moved over) wouldn't have made a difference, save for perhaps me landing in the leaves and rocks on the shoulder versus the road itself.

Lot's of distracted drivers out there. Cyclist are at fault too sometimes.

I may take some flak for this but, being in the right and being injured or killed is little compensation. The cyclist must sometimes slow down and sometimes STOP, to avoid dangerous situations, even if the cyclist is "in the right".

So, IMO the cyclist must take the responsibility to avoid the accident. The situation that defy's this is of course when the cyclist is hit from behind, and I don't know how to totally avoid that.

Yep, just like my driver's ed teacher told us some 30 years ago, having the right of way won't make it hurt any less when you get into a wreck, so keep your eyes open and react accordingly.

Yup. people who ride heavy traffic either get hit a lot or learn that the rules of the road don't always apply ... to others, and since they are in essentially armored vehicles .... choices must be made, prices must be paid.

To the OP .... I still cannot quite picture in m head how this happened. If the collision happened in your lane, there is no way the officer could mistake that. if it happened in her lane, likewise. if you rolled a stop sign, or if she turned into the wrong lane ... since I don't know, I want to make it clear I am Not judging you to be at fault.

I do have to ask, where were you looking and how fast were you going, that you would get hit Head-On. Usually that one is easiest to avoid. But ... I am not really clear if that is what happened.

Most important thing is, you are okay. Second most important, bike will be okay.

Sitting here waiting for a police officer to return my call - nothing else to do :-)

Here is a picture where the 'red star' is impact and red oval is where I landed. I was close to track standing at the time (a skill that I do not have, BTW). My direction is shown by the arrow (to the nearest 90 degrees). THe other car was coming from my right. and turning left across my path. I was not clipped in (I have a pair of running shoes whose tread actually works pretty well with my Garmin Vector pedals - I mostly avoid riding around town clipped in except for short distances). Both feet were on the pedals at the time of impact.

Sequence was

1) I approach the intersection, see one car, and decide turn right (straight or right gets me home). No other cars around and I am very near the white line.

2) I see the car (approaching me from the right on the other road) is going to make a left and all looks normal (signal, typical start of a typical turn, etc)

3) I glance to my left as a final car check

4) And suddenly there is the left turning car right on top of me

5) Impact was kind of a nudge to my right from the driver side door except that my head hit the sideview mirror (over my glasses and under my helmet). Not sure which impact came first, but I took a relatively gentle fall into the pinestraw (see red oval).

By the time the police got there we were both on the other side of the road. Had I to do it over again I would have left my bike where it was. There is no way the officer could definitively ascertain where impact happened (other than what she was told). THe 'evidence in favor' of my story was that I had no indications on my clothing that I had landed on pavement and my broken rearview mirror (mounts on my left side dropbar) was found on the right side of the road. But I am inexperienced in bike accidents :-)

dave

This is exactly what I envisioned when I spoke of the driver cutting the corner in a sweeping left. It doesn't matter if she started a sweeping turn early, or squared it off, but for whatever reason took it too narrow.

Either way, you were positioned where a poor driver could hit you. There is no fault or error on your part, but if you know that cars sweep this turn, you might stop farther back. There's no precise science or rules that are going to protect you in situations like this, and stopping farther back a every corner doesn't make sense, so this is one of those cases where you use best judgement, and stand ready to jump if/when necessary.

As far as the police go, stand your ground regarding where you were when hit, and let the driver explain how it happened.

The problem, of course, is that there is no (practical) position where a poor driver cannot hit you. If there are other cars around you almost have to take a "car position" so drivers have a clue as to what you are doing. And if you can get hit where I was you can get hit about anywhere - and that is why these discussions never end :-)

dave

Many many. Of all the vehicles on the road bicycles are the most dangerous without a doubt. Riders must keep this in mind at all times. Flags, lights, they all help but we are still just a small slow moving target in most road environments. Visibility is the key though. A helmet with a bright flashing amber light on top like on an ambulance would be great for being seen but no one would wear one would they.

I just ride the back streets myself, the back streets and the footpaths of the main roads or the mains only on a sunday morning, EARLY!

Or ride like I do some of the time. Take the right tire track, be visible and predictable( like ride in a strait line and signal) Bikes are traffic.

With respect, this is nonsense.

Yes, a bicyclist faces higher statistical risk of serious injury than a motorist, but not as high as someone on a motorcycle. When "user error" injuries like riding at night without lights, failing to heed signals and stop signs, and children who simply don't know better, the statistical risk of bicycling drops almost by half.

Am I saying that bicycling is safe in an absolute sense? Of course not. But it is safe in the context of everyday activities, and this is why life insurance companies seek out bicyclists (include high mileage road riders) and offer them preferential rates.

About the only reliable thing we can say about bicycling safety, is that it's safer to bicycle as an everyday activity than not to.