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REI Co-op bikes - Novara with new paint?

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REI Co-op bikes - Novara with new paint?

Old 02-01-17, 11:12 PM
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tyrion
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REI Co-op bikes - Novara with new paint?

This looks exactly like the Randonee I bought 2 years ago (except for the color):

https://www.rei.com/product/109579/c...v-11-bike-2017

(Still a good deal, IMO).

Co-op bikes:

https://www.rei.com/b/co-op-cycles/c...tegory%3Abikes

Seems like the same old stuff but the road bikes are called "all road" bikes now. I was expecting something more exciting.

Last edited by tyrion; 02-02-17 at 11:13 AM. Reason: fixed 2nd link to point to the co-op bikes page
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Old 02-01-17, 11:50 PM
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A bit disappointing that they seem to be the same bikes as before. OTOH, I like my Novara (Safari and Forza) bikes so I'm glad to see that I can get another.
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Old 02-01-17, 11:56 PM
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Been waiting for these to drop. Some of them are all new - at least specifically the DRT mountain bikes and ARD gravel bikes in their press release from last autumn. But others will surely be Novara with new paint because why wouldn't they? I see the Safari and Mazama are back, too.

I'm not fond of the styling of the DRT frames. I'm sure they work fine, though. No dropper posts or full suspension models, either.
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Old 02-02-17, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
But others will surely be Novara with new paint because why wouldn't they? I see the Safari and Mazama are back, too.
Exactly. Updatingsupplementing your line is fine. Getting rid of some proven staples for the sake of being able to say you have a completely new lineup is stupid.
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Old 02-02-17, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by raceboy View Post
A bit disappointing that they seem to be the same bikes as before. OTOH, I like my Novara (Safari and Forza) bikes so I'm glad to see that I can get another.
So you are disappointed there are some bikes which are the same, but you are glad that you can still get the bike you liked.
what?

Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Seems like the same old stuff but the road bikes are called "all road" bikes now. I was expecting something more exciting.
Its REI...they do practical and trendy...but not too sure if exciting is possible from an in house brand of a national company. Similarly, anyone get excited over Scattante bikes?






Back when REI announced they would change Novara to CO-OP, part of the announcement was that they would keep some successful current bikes. Why?...because they are successful. It woulda been dumb to drop what works.
So CO-OP will be, at least for the first year or so, a mix of new models and some refreshed Novara models.

Last edited by mstateglfr; 02-02-17 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 02-02-17, 07:49 AM
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I typed a long, eloquent response and because I am new, the link to our newsroom took me to a screen saying I couldn't post links yet... And erased my post.

Time for the short TL;DR response lol

First, full disclosure, I'm an REI employee with no ties to our bike department... I just sell boots man! Just figured out I like bikes this past summer, ran into this thread looking for new info on the same bikes in question lol

So basically... Novara didn't work out. People didn't get exited about it as a brand, and while a few bikes were good no one ever saw it more than entry level because most of them were not. So, we asked a bunch of people how we could grow with them as they progressed and looked at industry trends that we never really looked at before. This is not a new set of bikes, it's a full blown philosophical repositioning what we are as a bike shop.

SO, we have awesome new bikes, but as people pointed above we also had successful Novara bikes. More important than the new paint is numbered naming system: The ARD 1.4 is our carbon all road bike with Shimano 105 components, the ARD 1.3 is Carbon with Tiagra, the DRT 2.1 will be the current most capable mountain bike where the DRT 1.3 will be quite different, etc. As you can imagine, Novara is going to fill out some of the lower tiers but the point is it will be clear on what the purpose of each bike is and where it falls on the performance scale.

All in all, very exciting! But not every bike is on the website yet, that's why I'm looking everywhere to see if I can find frame dimensions so I know what our Small Medium Large XL frame sizes mean, and how I saw this thread ;-). And if it wasn't clear, I honestly can't answer any questions because I literally don't know the answers.. I'm just a part time employee, but am pretty exited about what we are doing :-) hopefully that brings perspective!
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Old 02-02-17, 07:52 AM
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By and large, REI bikes are well thought out and competitively priced.
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Old 02-02-17, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
But others will surely be Novara with new paint because why wouldn't they? I see the Safari and Mazama are back, too.
Yep. If they sold (and by the sentiment displayed on these forums for them, I'm fairly certain they sold well), why would you toss them out and start over? Branding change may make them more desirable to current REI customers, same feature set will keep them desirable to the current buyers.
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Old 02-02-17, 09:10 AM
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Somebody at REI HQ took a marketing class en route to a business degree. Ergo, let's sell higher priced bikes because the profit is bigger. To do that, change the name. Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet?


It's symptomatic of the change from a co-op (selling what people needed for outdoor activities) to a business (selling what they can with an outdoor flavor).


It will be interesting to see if they continue to sell Cannondale, Surly, etc. for more than a year or so. Interesting for a couple reasons: first, if you look at an REI store, it looks like 2/3 or so of the bikes they carry (and presumably sell) are non-REI brands, whether you call the Co-op or Novara. Second, will the mail order plus store sales be sufficient to keep this brand afloat? Carrying cost for an $800 bike (regularly priced at $1,200) is going to be half that for a $1,600 bike (MSRP $2,500), and the higher price point is going to be competing on style points as much as utility, in other words, the market is probably more fickle at the higher price point. Case in point, the Trek 520 was basically unchanged for 30 years until Trek came out with the 720 and 920 last year. In that time, Trek racing bikes went from steel, to carbon, with a few gasps toward titanium, and now they're carbon. Last year's model? Utililitarian touring bike, relatively inexpensive, $100-200 discount because of the new color. Expensive racing bike, well, last year I saw discounts over $1,000 on those.
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Old 02-02-17, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Magus Shadow View Post
So basically... Novara didn't work out. People didn't get exited about it as a brand, and while a few bikes were good no one ever saw it more than entry level because most of them were not. So, we asked a bunch of people how we could grow with them as they progressed and looked at industry trends that we never really looked at before. This is not a new set of bikes, it's a full blown philosophical repositioning what we are as a bike shop.
I genuinely hope this happens. I hesitate to say it will, based on what Ive seen in multiple REI locations, but I do hope it happens.

For a full blown philosophical repositioning to take place, more will have to be done than changing the letters on the downtube from NOVARA to COOP. A lot more- from information available on the website, to customer service and knowledge on the website and in stores, to an actual investment by local stores to carry product.
One thing REI has done a great job of, at least locally since they came into my market 1.5 years ago, is support local events and organizations. Really cool to see.


Edited to add- well it looks like they have a good start on one of the common issues from before- the total lack of specifics for geometry. Ive looked at a few bikes now and they have detailed geometry of each bike. That is fantastic! REI's old process was to not have any info, a question be asked, then someone at REI would respond to the webpage question a month or two later. This is 10x better.

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Old 02-02-17, 09:34 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
It will be interesting to see if they continue to sell Cannondale, Surly, etc. for more than a year or so. Interesting for a couple reasons: first, if you look at an REI store, it looks like 2/3 or so of the bikes they carry (and presumably sell) are non-REI brands, whether you call the Co-op or Novara. Second, will the mail order plus store sales be sufficient to keep this brand afloat?
Topical- I read a bit ago that Salsa will be carried at a handful or REI stores across the nation. This really ticked off a lot of LBS' due to Salsa's parent company, QBP, always saying they support the small shops.
Anyways, it looks like REI will continue with national brands in some locations since they are expanding it.
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Old 02-02-17, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Its REI...they do practical and trendy...but not too sure if exciting is possible from an in house brand of a national company. Similarly, anyone get excited over Scattante bikes?
Maybe my expectations were inflated. For some reason I was expecting a fleet of tour divide racing bikes.
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Old 02-02-17, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Somebody at REI HQ took a marketing class en route to a business degree. Ergo, let's sell higher priced bikes because the profit is bigger.
Honestly, it looks like the prices have actually dropped some. The DRT 1.2 ($799) is basically a Novarra Ponderosa (~$1000 MSRP). And honestly, it's easily the best bang for buck entry level bike at $800. Air fork, hydro brakes, 3x9 drivetrain.

It'll be interesting to see how REI handles discounting on these. One of the challenges of Novara is that you they were always over-priced MSRP, it was only with rebates & sales that they became good deals. If REI restricts the discounting and lowers the MSRP that may actually be good for sales.
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Old 02-02-17, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Maybe my expectations were inflated. For some reason I was expecting a fleet of tour divide racing bikes.
Gotcha. Thatd be neat.
Not sure how big a seller the fleet would be though.

2016 Tour Divide Rigs - Bikepacker
By the look of it, all sorts of bikes were used. Rigid MTB, hardtail MTB, drop bar, flat bar, carbon, aluminum, steel...not much commonality between bikes.

For what its worth, the ADV 3.1 could work, based on the linked webpage. And with Salsa now in REI, they have that route too since multiple bikes in the linked page were Salsa.
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Old 02-02-17, 11:49 AM
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Still one Novara tagalong listed on the website.
Loved the Novara Big Buzz I bought in 2003 - still hangs in my garage even though I've ridden only recumbent bikes for years.
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Old 02-02-17, 11:53 AM
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The ADV 1.1 is identical to Novara Randonee, but for the color. My 2016 was colored 'Oregano' (?!!..) like the 3.1. Much prefer the Charcoal... The components are identical, down to the mediocre WTB saddle...

I saw the addition of Salsa with interest.
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Old 02-02-17, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
For what its worth, the ADV 3.1 could work
Formerly known as the Mazama. I looked at that when I was getting my Randonee but the biggest size didn't seem big enough for me.
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Old 02-02-17, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GerryinHouston View Post
The ADV 1.1 is identical to Novara Randonee, but for the color. My 2016 was colored 'Oregano' (?!!..) like the 3.1. Much prefer the Charcoal...

I named my 2009 Randonee "Pig," short for "Iron Pig," because the first time I rode it it was fully loaded and headed west. (Replacement for a 2006 Randonee that broke 8 miles into a cross country ride, if you're wondering. Pig made it the last 4,430 miles and is still working fine, BTW.) Anyhow, Pig's color was soon dubbed "Slime green."
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Old 02-02-17, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Formerly known as the Mazama. I looked at that when I was getting my Randonee but the biggest size didn't seem big enough for me.
Yup, the Mazama.

I considered the XL last year, but without one in my local store I was hesitant to order it since I wasnt sure if it would be large enough. The stack height on the XL is significant- something like 65.5cm.

Months after I build up a gravel bike, the local store got an XL in stock and I took it for a parking lot spin. It fit well and I am 6'5. The reach needed another 1cm maybe, but it was a really solid fit even for me at the top end of the size spectrum.

So the XL Randonee fit you but the Mazama didnt? Wonder if the different bar setup had something to do with that.
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Old 02-02-17, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post

So the XL Randonee fit you but the Mazama didnt? Wonder if the different bar setup had something to do with that.
I have an XXL Randonee. I'm 6'5" and it fits me well. I couldn't test ride it, REI said I could buy and return it if I didn't like it. But I liked it and kept it.
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Old 02-02-17, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
I have an XXL Randonee. I'm 6'5" and it fits me well.
Ah yep, I forgot about the 2x size. Im the same height, but geometry mix of rider and bike is a wild match for sure!
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Old 02-02-17, 01:36 PM
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With all due respect to whomever posted it, "full blown philosophical repositioning" sounds like jargon straight from the marketing department.

Philosophical repositioning = REI's sales strategy, nothing more. Nothing wrong with that but I'm not buying a philosophy. I'm buying a bike.

REI selling Salsa is the real news here. I was told they will be in only 11 stores nationwide for the reason mentioned, out of respect for the local shops which carry Salsa. My local REI isn't one of the stores and so I'm traveling 2+ hours to an LBS north of Atlanta to look at a Warbird in the upcoming weeks.


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Old 02-02-17, 02:38 PM
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I should clarify, but cannot elaborate more than this: The philosophy meaning more than just new bikes. It's not presenting a new line of bikes, It's the actual fundamental way we want to approach the bike business. From my limited perspective from within, it looks like there is an active communication with customers getting inspiration for what a person, who shops at REI, wants. That's the difference, deciding to design around our customer base specifically instead of checking off a list of must haves for what a national brand might want or be expected to fill the racks with. More personal? That may be a business 101 thing but I think it's very different from the atmosphere around the bike division previously. It almost feels like someone, who cares, is spearheading something that the higher ups deemed worthy to get behind (not surprising considering our CEO and other drastic changes he's made). It's also more than the bikes themselves, but those other things will very certainly take a long period of time to roll out.

I guess I'll just say "watch this space" and encourage you to keep an optimistic eye at where things are headed, and keep it at that in case... Well in case I'm wrong/totally off base. I'm a new cycling guy! Less than a year into my passion. Maybe I'm just too excited to have a good ass road/gravel grinder to ride around in that I can get from my own workplace
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Old 02-02-17, 03:38 PM
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They've actually "rebranded" much of their line besides bicycles.


REI Co-Op Brand Gets an Overhaul - REI Co-op Journal
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Old 02-02-17, 03:39 PM
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They've actually "rebranded" much of their line besides bicycles.


REI Co-Op Brand Gets an Overhaul - REI Co-op Journal
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