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Are there bad helmets out there that will not protect your noggin ?

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Are there bad helmets out there that will not protect your noggin ?

Old 03-04-17, 04:37 PM
  #51  
Dahon.Steve
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This is interesting.

If Australian helmets require more stringent testing to receive certification, I wonder where one can buy these helmets? Quite frankly, I would be willing to pay more for a stronger/safer helmet.
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Old 03-04-17, 04:52 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
We're not talking difficult, complex, and expensive to meet requirements, we're talking a drop test that $10 helmets at your local big box store can easily surpass.
What bothers me is that CPSC only requires the helmet to survive a drop test on top of the helmet. The cyclist in most cases, will land on his face or side, not the top!
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Old 03-04-17, 05:03 PM
  #53  
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Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
"Tested" and "approved" by whom?
Any helmet design must meet the standards found here Helmet Standards Summary
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Old 03-04-17, 06:19 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Wolfhaven View Post
Not bike helmets but hockey helmets have to undergo testing for US and Canadian safety standards. Helmets range in price from $40 to well over $100. Some claim improved protection from concussions. Virginia Tech tested 32 helmets for protection. Their findings were a bit shocking. Turns out price is no indication of the levels of protection. In one case a $40 Bauer helmet out performed one of their $100+ helmets. Manufacturers haven't been happy with the findings. Virginia Tech earlier had tested football helmets that created an uproar in the football equipment industry as well.
Interesting. I will research the findings of Virginia Tech.

The OP might want to know that Bern and Nutcase helmets ranked low on Consumer Reports back in 2012.

https://bikeportland.org/2012/05/31/...-reports-72616
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Old 03-04-17, 06:56 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
More expensive helmets are lighter, have better cooling and better adjustments, generally. All protect to the same standards.
For the fifty years of both biking and motorcycling I've survived more crashes than I can remember (possible loss of memory due to crashes?? LOL) by remembering the simple rule:
If you've got a $5 head buy a $5 helmet. That said, anything past the basic protection should cover as much as you're comfortable with based on ventilation needs (do you ride in really cold weather?) Giro makes a couple of MIPS models for less than $50 and I like them for all-round temp use, although they aren't a "racy" style.
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Old 03-04-17, 07:25 PM
  #56  
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I'm not interested in results of the drop test onto the top of the helmet. Unless rascals are dropping stuff on us from bridges it just isn't relevant to most real world crashes.

I'm more interested in seeing tests of side, front and back impacts using a pendulum, swinging bar or controlled drop test using a dummy. And the impacts should be against concrete, not metal. The friction provided by concrete could also test the MIPS type systems to evaluate effectiveness.

Meanwhile I'll probably just keep using Bell whatever other reputable helmet I can find for $50 or less.

Interesting to read those poor test results for Bern and Nutcase. I considered them several times but didn't buy because they look like they'd be too hot in typical Texas summers. And there are fewer places to easily strap on small to-be-seen lights. OTOH, if I had a Bern or Nutcase I'd probably just keep wearing it. Better than nothing.

Regarding effective impact protection, I'm happy to say I haven't had a chance to find out. Yet. I fell pretty hard on my left side last month and am just now feeling some relief from bruised ribs. Fortunately I was riding only 10-12 mph, was able to put a foot down to lessen the impact and give myself enough time to roll away from a direct impact on my shoulder -- I remember consciously trying to avoid that. Knocked the wind out of me and it was painful just to breathe for a couple of days, although I finished the 12-15 mile ride home. But I inspected the helmet -- no sign of impact, and other riders said it didn't look like my head hit.

But that was just dumb luck, not good reflexes -- I was on the MUP, not the street, just wasn't going that fast, and because I use platform pedals I was able to put a foot down and cushion some of the impact. I wouldn't count on that sort of luck as a substitute for a helmet. I've watched enough crashes to know even the youngest, fittest athlete has little or no control over a head smack in a serious crash at high speed. Especially going over the bars. Nobody can react quickly enough to choose to avoid a head impact in that scenario.

Last edited by canklecat; 03-04-17 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 03-04-17, 09:42 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by grayEZrider View Post
For the fifty years of both biking and motorcycling I've survived more crashes than I can remember (possible loss of memory due to crashes?? LOL) by remembering the simple rule:
If you've got a $5 head buy a $5 helmet. That said, anything past the basic protection should cover as much as you're comfortable with based on ventilation needs (do you ride in really cold weather?) Giro makes a couple of MIPS models for less than $50 and I like them for all-round temp use, although they aren't a "racy" style.
I have wanted to say that so many times but didn't want to hurt anyones feelings. I head butted a pickup that turned left in front of my motorcycle once. The helmet definitely saved my life. I believe in head protection.
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Old 03-05-17, 11:27 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
What bothers me is that CPSC only requires the helmet to survive a drop test on top of the helmet. The cyclist in most cases, will land on his face or side, not the top!
Certainly arguments can be made that it is a simplistic test, and I'd be inclined to agree with them, my argument was against people saying that testing to a simple, easy to pass standard was something that was widely skipped in the industry.

Originally Posted by grayEZrider View Post
If you've got a $5 head buy a $5 helmet. That said, anything past the basic protection should cover as much as you're comfortable with based on ventilation needs (do you ride in really cold weather?) Giro makes a couple of MIPS models for less than $50 and I like them for all-round temp use, although they aren't a "racy" style.
The problem with that statement: Do you only have a $50 head? I can find bike helmets that run into the $300+ range, most helmets from the actual name-brand bike companies are well north of $100, by the logic of the first statement you are still valuing your head way too low.

As far as MIPS, I'm still not personally sold on it, and as far as the last time I've checked, there was really no research indicating it was any better. My helmet already moves naturally, both with the ability of my scalp to move around on the skull, and the pads to wiggle a bit on my hair. Always interested to see the studies if they exits, though, I do need a new helmet this spring!
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Old 03-05-17, 01:01 PM
  #59  
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Anything less, and you don't care anout yer noggin'

http://www.gentexcorp.com/findaircrewcommunications/fixed-wing/gentex-lightweight-hgu-55-p-combat-edge-fixed-wing-aircrew-helmet

I especially like the quick disconnect on the enriched oxygen hose. VO2 max has limited cycling for far too long. In addition to flight computer integration, You can also get a custom Garmin Edge 520 interface.

It's got protection for that 600 knot wind so common on the MUP!

Last edited by base2; 03-05-17 at 01:10 PM. Reason: added snark
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Old 03-05-17, 02:08 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by grayEZrider View Post
For the fifty years of both biking and motorcycling I've survived more crashes than I can remember (possible loss of memory due to crashes?? LOL) by remembering the simple rule:
If you've got a $5 head buy a $5 helmet.
An alternative method is to ride in a manner that is not likely to result in LOL about surviving more crashes than can be remembered and assuming that an expensive helmet is an effective countermeasure for foolhardy riding.
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Old 03-05-17, 02:41 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Certainly arguments can be made that it is a simplistic test, and I'd be inclined to agree with them, my argument was against people saying that testing to a simple, easy to pass standard was something that was widely skipped in the industry.
Who was arguing that the required testing was widely skipped in the industry?

The OP asked if any bad helmets are out there. Let's assume that the measure of "bad helmets" that do "not protect" are those not have not passed the tests and certification process IAW CPSC standards. Are you that positive that there are no bad actors involved in the manufacture or importation of helmets on the market who may not follow all the rules when there is some money to be made, perhaps by applying labels to products that have not been tested IAW the Standard or did not pass all the required tests?

You expressed your faith in manufactures' and importers' 100 % compliance with all the testing and regulatory requirements, I expressed my doubts in 100% compliance.

I also have doubts about any assumed 100% quality control of all future production after a helmet model passes the regulatory one time testing process of early production samples.
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Old 03-05-17, 06:15 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Are you that positive that there are no bad actors involved in the manufacture or importation of helmets on the market who may not follow all the rules when there is some money to be made, perhaps by applying labels to products that have not been tested IAW the Standard or did not pass all the required tests?
Would I be naive to think that somehow, somewhere, a non-conforming helmet has never entered the country? Absolutely. I mentioned don't buy helmets from zero star sellers on eBay located in Guangdong, China, as one way it could happen. DO I think that buying a helmet from any big box store, sporting goods store, bike shop in America, that you are going to encounter stock that the importers have stuck out their neck to risk sanctions for a manufacturer who made shoddy goods? Absolutely not.

Of course, the nature of your argument means you only have to find one case to prove yourself right, so if you want to argue that somewhere a crappy helmet exists in America, I'll concede to you. I still retain the more helpful argument is that all helmets must meet a certain standard to be sold in the US, and therefore one shouldn't really worry about safety when buying a helmet at Wal-Mart vs the LBS.

Now, if we want to have a spirited discussion about the merits of the test procedure performed, I'm all for it
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Old 03-05-17, 06:37 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
I still retain the more helpful argument is that all helmets must meet a certain standard to be sold in the US, and therefore one shouldn't really worry about safety when buying a helmet at Wal-Mart vs the LBS.

Now, if we want to have a spirited discussion about the merits of the test procedure performed, I'm all for it
I would be willing to posit that even those helmets that do not meet the standard (if they should slip through the system) offer about as much risk reduction for those that rely on helmet protective powers as those helmets that do meet the existing CPSC standards. That debate could be continued in the appropriate helmet sticky thread, or even in P&R since some helmet promoters are as convinced of their beliefs as any P&R devotees, regardless of results, test or real world.
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Old 03-05-17, 06:57 PM
  #64  
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Some of the helmet critics seem to be as as convinced of their beliefs as any of the devotees.
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Old 03-05-17, 07:12 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Would I be naive to think that somehow, somewhere, a non-conforming helmet has never entered the country? Absolutely. I mentioned don't buy helmets from zero star sellers on eBay located in Guangdong, China, as one way it could happen. DO I think that buying a helmet from any big box store, sporting goods store, bike shop in America, that you are going to encounter stock that the importers have stuck out their neck to risk sanctions for a manufacturer who made shoddy goods? Absolutely not.

Of course, the nature of your argument means you only have to find one case to prove yourself right, so if you want to argue that somewhere a crappy helmet exists in America, I'll concede to you. I still retain the more helpful argument is that all helmets must meet a certain standard to be sold in the US, and therefore one shouldn't really worry about safety when buying a helmet at Wal-Mart vs the LBS.
Like you I do believe the odds of getting a sub standard helmet from a reputable source is extremely unlikely, but I'm also aware that counterfeit products are problematic, and there are disreputable vendors out there.

I don't think its unreasonable to exercise a little bit of caveat emptor in our decision process. For me that would be sticking to major name brands, from sources I already trust. Trusting no one, and nothing is too over the top for me.
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Old 03-05-17, 07:23 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by adamhenry View Post
Some of the helmet critics seem to be as as convinced of their beliefs as any of the devotees.
I don't have strong feelings one way or the other, so I look at it like this. Even if a helmet only works 10% of the time, that's 10% more than nothing if not wearing one, so I wear one.....most of the time....and it's not going to be the latest, and greatest available.

Call it an ounce of prevention for a $5 head.
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Old 03-06-17, 05:39 AM
  #67  
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Wiggle has stopped selling helmets to US

Originally Posted by kevlar_heart View Post
Any helmet design must meet the standards found here Helmet Standards Summary
Interesting.. especially in context that in that in a query to Wiggle (online UK retailer) as to why they no longer sell bike helmets:
"Due to further safety checks required within your country, we are unable to ship helmets overseas. Apologies about this"
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Old 03-06-17, 07:20 AM
  #68  
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The one crash I did survive was one where I hit the side of the head/helmet. The crack caused was the circumference on a grapefruit. I suppose this give credence to the large overhang of most helmets. I could not have hit the side of my face or adjusted my head for impact as it was determined that I had a diabetic seizure. Better helmets do fit better and can be had for >$100 which is far below the hospital co-pay.
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Old 03-06-17, 02:52 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
An alternative method is to ride in a manner that is not likely to result in LOL about surviving more crashes than can be remembered and assuming that an expensive helmet is an effective countermeasure for foolhardy riding.
I agree with you 100%. Not that I can claim to never having ridden foolishly on occasion, but the serious crashes (hospital rooms) were cases involving things beyond my control. Which is the second and fourth of the following top four list of reasons to wear at least some kind of helmet:

1. Texting teenagers.
2. Drunk drivers
3. Cell phone addicts
4. befuddled little old ladies who tell the investigating officer at the main four-lane intersection "I thought I was turning into my driveway".

I will probably upgrade my Giro helmet as soon as I can read any solid testing results, but everything from the basics to and including the $300 helmets appear to be very similar in the safety construction. But the fitting and features worth of those is an individual choice. I just didn't want to scare the newbie away from helmets by tossing out the high end helmets as a first suggestion!
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Old 03-06-17, 03:27 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by churnman View Post
The one crash I did survive was one where I hit the side of the head/helmet. The crack caused was the circumference on a grapefruit. I suppose this give credence to the large overhang of most helmets. I could not have hit the side of my face or adjusted my head for impact as it was determined that I had a diabetic seizure. Better helmets do fit better and can be had for >$100 which is far below the hospital co-pay.
Now that's a cost-to-benefits ratio analysis I can agree with!!
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