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Nothing like reading Bicycling when you want to feel like a broke dirtbag!

Old 03-17-17, 07:55 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
Now wait a minute. Read "Car and Driver". Do they focus on the no frills economy model? NO! They focus on the Mercedes Maibach or a Ferrari or some other car that's unobtainable, and their ad revenue derives from the grateful car makers.
I haven't read any print magazine in a long time, but when I go to C&D's website, the first five cars talked about:
Mazda CX5. MSRP: $22,675
Audi S3. $43,850
Infinity Q50. $34,855
Chevy Trax. $21,895
Toyota C-HR. $23,460.

Now, they also have the $300k Bentley Continential right under the Toyota, but under the Bentley they have the likes of the F150 and Honda CRV. Fairly decent mix of average, upscale, and uber cars right on their homepage.
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Old 03-17-17, 08:32 AM
  #52  
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But those aren't the cars that draw eyeballs. To give Bicycling magazine credit, they review lower priced bikes as well.

Kona Surtra

Salsa Fargo

Schindelhauer Friedrich

Jamis Icon

And a clutch of very inexpensive hybrids

Now you could argue that the first 4 bikes are expensive(ish) but most of the hybrids come in well under $1000 which is Nissan Versa and Ford Fiesta territory.

On the other hand, it's nice to dream about owning a wonder bike just like it's nice to dream about owning a super car. Most people aren't going to own either but a wonder bike is certainly more attainable then a super car.

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Old 03-17-17, 09:26 AM
  #53  
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The last time I subscribed to Bicycling was back in the '60s when it was called American Cycling. It was not very slick back then. It even had cover photos of touring cyclists wearing ordinary clothes. Here's a tattered copy I still have...



Prices were pretty good then too. I had the Schwinn Paramount all Campagnolo "Deluxe Road Racer" advertised at @$245! 1967 dollars but I was able to buy it with my paper route income. Rear cover...

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Old 03-17-17, 10:12 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post

Now you could argue that the first 4 bikes are expensive(ish) but most of the hybrids come in well under $1000 which is Nissan Versa and Ford Fiesta territory.
No, that's not a good comparison at all.

The Versa and Fiesta are two of the least expensive cars you can purchase in America, the Versa probably being the absolute least expensive.

Those hybrids are nowhere near the least expensive bikes you can buy. I didn't read the link, but I'm betting "well under a grand" is still more than 4x the cost of a commonly-seen-seen-on-the-streets Walmart bought GMC Denali, which sells for about $200.

I'm certainly not arguing that Bicycling should review Walmart bikes or troll the lowest rungs of the quality ladder; my point was that they review a lot of stunningly pricey bikes, and poorly at that. And again, I don't begrudge anyone spending what they want-- I would spend plenty more myself than the not insubstantial amounts I do already do if I could-- but I do feel like Bicycling is a little too skewed towards fluff pieces on high end rides, and just don't deliver the substance I'd like to see on those or any of the bikes they review.
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Old 03-17-17, 10:58 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by BobG View Post
The last time I subscribed to Bicycling was back in the '60s when it was called American Cycling. It was not very slick back then. It even had cover photos of touring cyclists wearing ordinary clothes. Here's a tattered copy I still have

...

Prices were pretty good then too. I had the Schwinn Paramount all Campagnolo "Deluxe Road Racer" advertised at @$245! 1967 dollars but I was able to buy it with my paper route income. Rear cover...
You can ride a bike in ordinary clothes

Just kidding! That $245 comes out to about $1800 today, BTW!
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Old 03-17-17, 12:04 PM
  #56  
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Unvarnished opinions re: bike reviews,

Components are commodities and are therefore irrelevant to any bike review. Dura Ace on one bike works just like Dura Ace on another bike. 404s on one bike are just like 404s on another bike. As a result, any review of a complete bike is basically meaningless without controlling for components. Changes in wheels and components will make any bike provide a different experience. Saying a frame is "more compliant" when compared to another frame is ridiculous if one is using 28mm tires and the other is using 23mm tires. Saying a bike "feels snappy" is ridiculous if one bike's wheels weighs a couple of pounds more than another bike's wheels. The only way to stop this is to define a standard component build and install it on every frame. This will never happen, of course. As a result, we can safely ignore complete bike reviews.

Also, I'd add that given a fixed geometry the nuances of how one frame rides vs. how another frame rides are often very minor. This is especially true of bikes in a given category, say aero carbon bikes. As a result, you get a lot of conflicting information about how a particular frame performs. Often, you're reduced to trying to discern what part of the ride experience noted is due to the frame and what part is simply due to the reviewer's biases, biomechanics and preferences. As a result, you can often safely ignore the review, look at the frame shapes, look at the geometry table and make up your own mind about how a bike will ride.

So yeah, you can safely ignore bike reviews.
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Old 03-17-17, 12:05 PM
  #57  
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For the definitive answer to these , and other questions you may not have realized you have:

1 go to Google

2 Type in calvin and hobbes chewing magazine

3 select Images

4 Click on the featured comic strips from left to right

For any other philosophical questions such "Do I have to be good or only act good if I want to get lots of presents for Christmas "

please see the various Calvin and hobs books,My favorite being "Attack of the Deranged Mutant Killer Monster Snow Goons".

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Old 03-17-17, 12:58 PM
  #58  
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It's like that everywhere. Look at the outdoors industry magazines - want to go backpacking? Then you MUST buy a $500 tent, $150 pad, $150 boots, drop 1K on layers from Patagonia/Arcteryx/Marmot, and $300 on a backpack to carry it all.
Most people just want to be associated with this high-cost stuff. Advertisers are selling a lifestyle, a feeling.
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Old 03-17-17, 01:21 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
No, that's not a good comparison at all.

The Versa and Fiesta are two of the least expensive cars you can purchase in America, the Versa probably being the absolute least expensive.

Those hybrids are nowhere near the least expensive bikes you can buy. I didn't read the link, but I'm betting "well under a grand" is still more than 4x the cost of a commonly-seen-seen-on-the-streets Walmart bought GMC Denali, which sells for about $200.
Yes, the Versa and Fiesta are the cheapest cars in the US. But at least they are still functional cars. If you want a comparison of "bicycles" that includes BSOs from Helmart, Car and Driver would need to do reviews of golf carts

My point, however, is I doubt that there is a review of Versas and Fiestas in every issue of Car and Driver. I doubt if there is a review of that level of car in the magazine every 2 years. Bicycling does do a fair number of reviews of "reasonably" priced bikes with some regularity.
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Old 03-17-17, 08:06 PM
  #60  
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I am really enjoying this thread! Lots of interesting points.

A magazine has to get its target market's attention. It's selling products. But it can't give all the details about a given product as it merely creates interest in said products. It guides its readers to the sources of those products. Sellers, LBSs and bicycle enthusiast gatherings are supposed to finish the sale. Get the potential buyer to think about ways to fund the purchase of the products. The magazines tune us in to what's out there, what's on the horizon and how those products are "achieving goals heretofore less attainable". Except these days, few writers understand they must sell the concept of owning the product. Imagining the experience of riding can be improved by using the product. Sell them the wind and the road, and even their own legs churning beneath them. They will likely pick some product they can justify from the pages of that magazine.
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Old 03-18-17, 05:53 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
It is kind of a good read if you are trapped in a middle seat on an airplane with insufficient space to open your laptop because the guy in front of you wants to put his head into your lap. In that case, it does provide an alternative to reading the fine print on the barf bag, especially now that we no longer have the SkyMall catalogue.
WHAT!! When did that happen?

LOL!!

It's been ages since I've last taken a flight anywhere (probably 12 to 13 years) and it was in the seat back pouch back then.




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Old 03-18-17, 06:04 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
i mean, like someone said before: Cycling has sadly become a material sport, where it used to be a physical sport.

I think most people get too hyped up about the materials and the bikes. They get brainwashed by the marketing, about the new bike that will be "even stiffer, even lighter, blablabla".

Obviously if you are racing you want the best equipment, but if you just ride recreationally, a more expensive bike wont buy you more enjoyment.
+1




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Old 03-18-17, 07:15 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by smarkinson View Post
Trickle down economics for me. All those dentists buying $5,000+ bikes means there's plenty money for companies to make nice bikes down below $2,000 which non-serious cyclists (or are they really serious?) can buy. Why buy Dura-Ace when you can get 105 for 1/4 the price and you still get 99% the performance?
+1 There is a lot of truth in what you have posted.
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Old 03-18-17, 07:21 AM
  #64  
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The fact is on the really high priced bikes, there is an old saying that applies. "There is a sucker born every minute".

IMO so many of the really high priced bikes are bought by people with lots of money just for the snob appeal. But what is really funny is that only probably less than 1% of people that see their bike will be impressed. What is even more funny is that if the person on a $10,000 dollar wonder bike and I are setting at a stop light, he will be ignored, and kids and many adults will look at my bent or trike and say wow, or cool. Life can be cruel.
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Old 03-18-17, 08:17 AM
  #65  
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If they have the money, great for them. My club has riders with bikes from $800 to $8000, nobody really cares. 80% of the members pay to have their bike worked on, would never hang out on a forum such as this one and don't really care about all the nit-picky stuff we blather about endlessly.
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Old 03-18-17, 09:54 PM
  #66  
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Watching people spend 3k 5k or 10k on a bicycle just brings a smug to my face knowing that I will have money in retirement and able to afford the things that matter in life.
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Old 03-18-17, 10:16 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by blue192 View Post
Watching people spend 3k 5k or 10k on a bicycle just brings a smug to my face knowing that I will have money in retirement and able to afford the things that matter in life.
And by "watching" people spend more money on a bicycle than you would, you can actually use your smugness to have money in retirement and be able to afford the things that matter in life, or is your point that those people you supposedly "watch" can't? Good grief!

BTW, where do you "watch" these people?
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Old 03-18-17, 10:35 PM
  #68  
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I am waiting for the magazine featuring old guys buying $50-$300 bikes off craigslist.
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Old 03-18-17, 11:25 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Oh, man... bike shops used to be so cool and full of personality! Today they're mostly company stores with pre-selected collections of cookie-cutter industrial accessories and bikes. Shops used to have 'curated' offerings, selected for being the best or most suited to local needs. Ah well...
Mostly I might agree. I get Bicycling because I bought shoes and a Garmin from a cycling warehouse outlet that has a small showroom with a computer that gives you access to what they have in the warehouse. The focus of the magazine has changed over the years and as some have said it is like factory advertising. The bikes are nice and sometimes they have offerings that might meet my needs. But mostly my price range is at about 1/3 of their top of the line bikes.

As far as bike shops go they are harder to find if you are looking for the old hang out type bike shop. They are still out there but mostly they are the smaller shops that give more service than anything else and have very few bikes in the shop. They tend to order online and can get most any thing you might be looking for. At least I have found one or two. The company store is the more common and can be frustrating.

We used to have three shops within five miles of my house and they had bikes for roadies, MTBers and general cruisers. The cruiser shop also carried a few bents and some folders as well as city bikes and entry level road bikes. the problem is they couldn't survive the internet and stores like Performance, Nashbar and Jenson's. That is why I think the repair shop model works better at this time because we are down to two shops seven miles apart. And one is a factory store.

I built my road bike from the frame up. I have rebuilt my Klein that I got off of a friend because it was too big for him. My Peugeot was a old frame that I had till I got the right forks for it. I got the MTB new as a birthday present not because I needed it but because I wanted better shocks, and disk brakes and my old bike wasn't compatible.

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Old 03-19-17, 12:24 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
The only magazines I read are...oh wait I just read blogs, forums and watch youtube videos because that's where all the good info is now.
The information on Bike Forums is 100 times better than what you'll read in Bicycling. If anything, there is a human interest story that might be worth reading and that's about all.

Bicycle Times puts out a better magazine.
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Old 03-19-17, 12:36 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Oh, man... bike shops used to be so cool and full of personality! Today they're mostly company stores with pre-selected collections of cookie-cutter industrial accessories and bikes.
The problem comes from the manufacturers themselves. To get Cannondale bikes, you have to carry their helmets, gloves etc. As a result, they end up giving you a 10% discount or more off accessories when you buy a new bicycle. However, there is no way I would go out of my way to buy these low end products like Trek tail lights when there are far better ones offered online.

As a result, I end up avoiding going to the LBS for anything other than repair service.
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Old 03-19-17, 06:27 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by BobG View Post
The last time I subscribed to Bicycling was back in the '60s when it was called American Cycling. It was not very slick back then. It even had cover photos of touring cyclists wearing ordinary clothes. Here's a tattered copy I still have...



Prices were pretty good then too. I had the Schwinn Paramount all Campagnolo "Deluxe Road Racer" advertised at @$245! 1967 dollars but I was able to buy it with my paper route income. Rear cover...

My first good bike was a Schwinn LeTour. Very nice lugged frame, and quite light for the time.
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Old 03-19-17, 07:11 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by capnjonny View Post
For the definitive answer to these , and other questions you may not have realized you have:

1 go to Google

2 Type in calvin and hobbes chewing magazine

3 select Images

4 Click on the featured comic strips from left to right

For any other philosophical questions such "Do I have to be good or only act good if I want to get lots of presents for Christmas "

please see the various Calvin and hobs books,My favorite being "Attack of the Deranged Mutant Killer Monster Snow Goons".
Thanks, I needed that.
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Old 03-19-17, 06:51 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
And by "watching" people spend more money on a bicycle than you would, you can actually use your smugness to have money in retirement and be able to afford the things that matter in life, or is your point that those people you supposedly "watch" can't?
Having money in retirement is not a bad thing. Getting here by working primarily in the bicycle industry, notorious for the lack of defined-benefit pensions, required a lot of diligent saving over the years. Modest tastes and establishing priorities helped a lot. I do not begrudge those who buy themselves lots of very nice things, but in the long term it was more important to me to have fewer things just nice enough and the leisure to enjoy them. It's all in what you value.
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Old 03-19-17, 08:01 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by sdmc530 View Post
This^^^^




Like owning a Ford Taurus and reading hot rod mags.....( I unfortunately drive a Ford Taurus.)

I once saw a guy with a Taurus wagon burning ruts and tearing out in a dirt lot...Greg Brady would have to smile.
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