Originally Posted by Maelochs (Post 19559898)

The problem is that there is no “problematic mentality that sees bikes firstly as working out machines and secondly as vehicles.”

Most people find cars necessary because they are

A.) a Lot faster,

B.) Basically weatherproof,

C.) Can carry a lot more,

D.) Can carry passengers safely

E.) Do not depend on the very energy that user might need when he/she arrives at the destination.

I can go on quite a ways further if you like.

I was car-free for a Long time. I know whereof I speak.

I had friend who had kids. Kids, and full-time jobs. You work it out.

I was in Great shape. I simply would have failed otherwise, because to get to work when it is a longish ways away in 95-degree heat and humidity, work a ten-hour shift, a ride home, and do it again six days a week, interspersed with necessary errands .... would kill people who were not really fit.

And unless you are pretty fit to start with, you can’t start. You can’t “ride into it ...” Call your boss and say, “Hey, I am really tired, so I’ll take the day off, right?”

Fact is for most people the bicycle is NOT a valid mode of transport.

In a culture designed around cycling, in a city designed around cycling ... maybe it could work. How many of those Dutch grandmothers need to travel 60 miles to work each day and bring home a 20-lb bag of rice and a gallon of milk?

I can carry 100 lbs on my bike—not rapidly, but I can haul it for a while. And on some weekend trips to get pool chemicals, grass seed, fertilizer, tools, lumber, hardware, and groceries I put way more than that in my car.

Considering both weight and bulk .... every tried carrying 8-foot-long 4x4s? I can carry one at a time, I have tried two ... it is never safe.

I could pay money for a trailer and carry all that easily I guess. But if on that same weekend I wanted to drop my lawnmower off for servicing .... there is a twelve-hour day on a bike, hauling a heavy load.

Also, once I load my trailer at one store ,... how do I secure all that stuff at the next store?

I use a car, I can do it in a few hours and actually use the stuff I bought when I get home, as opposed to falling out with a quart of Gatorade.



Yeah, Uh .... No.

See, those mythical Dutch cities developed in very limited spaces starting when “transportation” meant “I wish I had a horse.” Their cities are built on a different scale and on a different plan.

As noted above, it is not unusual for people to have to do sixty-mile commutes.

The biggest thing which you apparently cannot grasp is Time.

A doctor wants to show up at the office fresh and clean, and clear-headed. he cycles sixty miles, he needs a shower a big breakfast, and a nap. Plus, he has just spent four hours cycling. he works eight hours, so that is fourteen all in .... and rides home, for eighteen hours,.. That leaves him six hours to shower again, eat, see his family, run whatever errands he needs, and do his continuing education—keep up on all the new drugs and procedures patients will be asking about because of the stupid TV commercials.

That all takes more than eight hours .... so now what? He works every other day? Yahoo! He is a bicycle commuter so now he makes half as much money and helps half as many patients!

You do know there is a forum for the fantastical and unrealistic, right? “Car-free living” is crying out for you.

By the way ... how far do you commute each day?

Originally Posted by MightyLegnano (Post 19559908)

Why you have to be so aggressive? I understand that this might offended you, but I don't think any of my responses were disrespectful towards drivers or cyclists who commutes by car.

And No, I don't believe people in US views bikes firstly as means of exercise and secondly as vehicles. In contrary, bike culture in US is waaay bigger than in my country. I said people in general and especially people who live in my country that I know well. Your anger didn't let you see what I wrote clearly.

Originally Posted by indyfabz (Post 19559940)

I'll bite again because I have a few minutes...


A. If disproving your premise if being "aggressive" than so be it.


B. "I said people in general and especially people who live in my country that I know well." You said no such thing. Here is what you "said:" "I just wanted to point out the problematic mentality that sees bikes firstly as working out machines and secondly as vehicles (the opposite of how Danish or Dutch see it)." People generally live in the U.S., and there is no mention of Greece. So enough with that rot.


Keep being yourself on my iggy list, :troll:

Originally Posted by jefnvk (Post 19559973)

Another aspect of bikes not always being practical for going to work: both my current and previous job involved moving between two or more locations, sometimes multiple times per day and sometimes with equipment or design samples. Even if we are only talking about 5 miles, it is much more of an ordeal and much more time consuming on a bike than in a car. Not exactly professional to show up at a meeting either sweaty, or having to leave extremely early so you can pedal over and clean up before walking in to the meeting room, and I doubt the company would think much of me loading up $10k worth of sensitive test equipment on my back rack with a couple tie downs.

Originally Posted by jefnvk (Post 19559664)

Soon as they finish some missing gaps of trail, that would cut my route from 45 or so miles to about 33 miles from home doorstep to work lobby on segregated pathways, I may well do so!

Originally Posted by ptempel (Post 19560035)

Just park n' ride with the car and bike. Pick a park or some place with free parking that's whatever distance you like (I use a county park about 10 miles away).

Originally Posted by ptempel (Post 19560035)

Just park n' ride with the car and bike. Pick a park or some place with free parking that's whatever distance you like (I use a county park about 10 miles away).

Edit: just saw your post #29 above. Sure, if you have to carry equipment to clients/customers, then this won;t work. I guess just do the park n' ride on days you will be going into the corporate office?

To the OP, I think you are trying to illustrate that some folks are afraid to commute and/or ride their "pristine" Specialized Venge in bad weather. Unfortunately, we all just don't fit that mold...

Originally Posted by jefnvk (Post 19560043)

One of my bikes actually lives in my car, and I take it out after work while I wait for those highways to clear out. So much nicer when I'm on my own time and under no constraints, and I can stop for a beer along the way, then worrying about making that 9am meeting!

Originally Posted by Maelochs (Post 19559898)

I was in Great shape. I simply would have failed otherwise, because to get to work when it is a longish ways away in 95-degree heat and humidity, work a ten-hour shift, a ride home, and do it again six days a week, interspersed with necessary errands .... would kill people who were not really fit.

Originally Posted by MightyLegnano (Post 19559918)

Absolutely. It was just a way to provoke a discussion about the importance of commuting by bike in cities where cars overwhelm the streets. It wasn't intended to enforce a specific view.

Originally Posted by MightyLegnano (Post 19559998)

I understand. I would probably use a car too if I were you. Bike is not suitable for every case. My original post was referring to people who own an expensive bike and don't use it for commuting because they afraid it might get stolen, but also don't get a cheaper one because they got used to ride only on a state of the art bike.

Originally Posted by MightyLegnano (Post 19560059)

When I am touring I very often use google maps to avoid highways. Isn't there any smaller roads you can use?

Originally Posted by MightyLegnano (Post 19559700)

If no one is getting it, it means the cartoon is ineffectual. I just wanted to point out the problematic mentality that sees bikes firstly as working out machines and secondly as vehicles (the opposite of how Danish or Dutch see it).

I am not saying the bikes should be seen in a certain way, I am just wondering if you have experienced first hand the positive impact the bike has on your body, town and environment, why you wait for the weekend to park your car? If all those athletic cyclists you see on Sundays were commuting daily, our cities would be transformed into Copenhagen or Amsterdams by now.

Originally Posted by KD5NRH (Post 19560069)

Depends on how you define long; the longest commute (bike, bus or drive) I've had outside of temp work was 14 miles each way, and relatively flat. My current one is 8 miles each way with a couple of serious hills, and I was somewhat into the "overweight" range when I started it.



Not directly to car free, but you could start off with one day a week, and/or ride the route on your day off until you're up to doing it daily.



Most people who aren't lazy, legitimately disabled, or live well out of town could do a lot more of their getting around on a bike. Even if work is 20+ miles, most people aren't that far from a grocery store, church, barber shop or some other place they visit regularly.

Personally, I'm not a fan of car-free even though I'm doing it until I get some more debts paid off, but neither do I have any tolerance for people who whine about gas prices and then proceed to drive quarter mile errands on a regular basis in good weather.



This is why I'd like to see some low cost, essentially modular trailers. If I could get that entirely behind the bike and well secured, it wouldn't be too hard to carry at least a half dozen at a time. I guess you could thread them through the framework on something like Single Wheel Bicycle Trailer for Cargo BCT-8002 | Discount Ramps and ratchet strap them down so they're cantilevered off the back, but it seems like it would be easier and more stable if there was a way to attach a bogie behind it to support both ends of the boards. Would have been really handy bringing home a weed eater a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by jefnvk (Post 19560090)

I drive from one side of Detroit clear to the other (just north of Ann Arbor to Pontiac, if you are familiar with the area). Even the "little" roads that go for any length of time are rather large state highways I stay well clear of, let alone at rush hour. The one road that roughly parallels the trail I originally spoke of is 50MPH single narrow lane, generally bumper to bumper in each direction where I'd stack up traffic in no time.

Just not particularly in the cards for me. Far more enjoyable to just go out after work, on my own time at my own pace, and actually enjoy being on the bike instead of making a chore of it in a not particularly safe environment.

Originally Posted by jefnvk (Post 19560090)

The one road that roughly parallels the trail I originally spoke of is 50MPH single narrow lane, generally bumper to bumper in each direction where I'd stack up traffic in no time.

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 19559681)

+1

It's a strawman, based on the unstated premise that being a cyclist somehow implies accepting that driving is to be avoided.

I prefer to keep driving and cycling issues separate and distinct. There's no reason that one can't do both or neither.

Originally Posted by MightyLegnano (Post 19560109)

If that's the case, I feel you. I wouldn't want to risk my life just for the sake of riding a bike either.

Originally Posted by kickstart (Post 19560171)

Well, I'm a transportation cyclist who doesn't think cycling is a sport, and commutes by bike every day.

I probably don't get any brownie points as I bike commute to work as a professional driver.......

Originally Posted by Maelochs (Post 19560228)

Hitch that trailer to your bike .... all you need is a really big sprocket.