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A REAL Brake Comparison: DO IT!!!!

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A REAL Brake Comparison: DO IT!!!!

Old 05-13-17, 02:10 PM
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speshelite
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A REAL Brake Comparison: DO IT!!!!

Someone needs to do a valid comparo:

1. high end hydro's on a road bike

2. high end rim brakes on alu rims on a road bike

Dry runs

Wet runs

Riders matched for weight.

Several of you have posted that you have both rim and disc brake road bikes. So someone on the forum could do the tests.

DO IT!!!!!
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Old 05-13-17, 02:18 PM
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I'm sure it has been done. Have you searched?
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Old 05-13-17, 02:30 PM
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Pretty sure GCN over on youtube did it awhile ago. Take a guess which won.
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Old 05-13-17, 02:43 PM
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No one needs to do such a comparison.

Rim brakes are more than sufficient for road bikes for 95% of riding situations. If you ride where it's mountainous AND wet, then disc brakes may be advantageous- but good quality mechanical discs would work just as well as hyrdos, with less weight, expense and complexity. End of story.

Mountain bikes/CX bikes/fat bikes.....discs make more sense- but again, good quality mechanicals are fine.

I have mechanical discs on my fat bike. Love 'em. Wouldn't want them on my road bike though, as they'd be overkill, as the rim brakes can already lock-up the wheels.
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Old 05-13-17, 04:37 PM
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It isn't about the ability to lock up the wheels. Sticking a frame pump in the spokes can lock up a wheel.

It is about feel - modulation - as much as anything else. I would argue that an experienced rider can brake near the limit, "Impending lockup" and hold it there with hydraulic disk brakes better than with rim brakes. Better feel means that an experienced rider can rider closer to the limit.


-Tim-
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Old 05-13-17, 05:12 PM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
If you ride where it's mountainous AND wet, then disc brakes may be advantageous- but good quality mechanical discs would work just as well as hyrdos, with less weight, expense and complexity. End of story.
Not quite, a heavy rider in the northwest on hilly terrain = weekly brake adjustments with rim, or mechanical disc brakes. Hydraulic discs are set-and-forget between pad changes.
Hydraulic discs also require less effort, which on steep, mile+ long hills in traffic makes a difference, especially in the cold and wet.

Now I also have an old Schwinn and Raleigh with cheap rim brakes on steel rims, and they get the job done too, but They're not daily riders used in rush hour traffic. Just because something is adequate, or works well, doesn't mean they're the best choice.
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Old 05-13-17, 05:26 PM
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I have drum brakes. I've been doing some testing so here's some data: my average time for a panic stop (with excellent modulation) from 20 mph is 3 seconds. Rider and bike = 90 kg.

I have not tested my disc brake (non-hydraulic) cycle, but I am guessing that a panic stop from 20 mph can be done in much less time, but that may be that I have 2 discs and calipers up front. Not as good on the modulation, though.
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Old 05-14-17, 07:08 AM
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Brakes are over rated. All they do is slow you down.
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Old 05-14-17, 08:04 AM
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If some very speshul person thinks this test Needs to be done ... that person should do it.

Otherwise ... it is like testing whether it is hotter in the sun or in the shade. If you need the numbers to reassure you of what you and everyone else already knows, the problem lies way deeper than the components on your bicycle.

Last edited by Maelochs; 05-14-17 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 05-14-17, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Brakes are over rated. All they do is slow you down.
Anyone can go slow, it takes genius to go fast.
-Ferrari
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Old 05-14-17, 08:21 AM
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Okay i did the test, My bike stops faster then I do. Results: Near death experience flying head first over the handle bars.
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Old 05-14-17, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by speshelite View Post
Someone needs to do a valid comparo:

1. high end hydro's on a road bike

2. high end rim brakes on alu rims on a road bike

Dry runs

Wet runs

Riders matched for weight.

Several of you have posted that you have both rim and disc brake road bikes. So someone on the forum could do the tests.

DO IT!!!!!
What do you expect to learn?
Until limited by wheel lock or OTB, discs in general and hydros in particular will provide more braking per unit of hand effort.

To which degree this is ever "important" WRT measurable overall "racing" performance, or merely "nice" is going to be very hard to determine.

My reasons for preferring discs are:
- more consistent performance in the wet
- the lesser hand effort required
'Course, the latter is boosted by a medical condition causing my hands to go numb when cold.

I'm a tad faster overall down curvy descents on bikes with more efficient brakes, as I'm better at controlling the brakes at lesser hand effort. Something in the whole system, me + bike, doesn't feel particularly linear at a white-knuckle effort.
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Old 05-14-17, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dabac View Post
What do you expect to learn?
Until limited by wheel lock or OTB, discs in general and hydros in particular will provide more braking per unit of hand effort.

To which degree this is ever "important" WRT measurable overall "racing" performance, or merely "nice" is going to be very hard to determine.

My reasons for preferring discs are:
- more consistent performance in the wet
- the lesser hand effort required
'Course, the latter is boosted by a medical condition causing my hands to go numb when cold.

I'm a tad faster overall down curvy descents on bikes with more efficient brakes, as I'm better at controlling the brakes at lesser hand effort. Something in the whole system, me + bike, doesn't feel particularly linear at a white-knuckle effort.
You're wasting time trying to communicate intelligently with the OP. Your experiences will be rejected in a rude, immature manner.
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Old 05-14-17, 08:47 AM
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Ship them here and Ill let you know,,on Your dime.

. they must all be my size of course..
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Old 05-14-17, 08:59 AM
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I have hydraulic disc brakes on my Lexus GX470. With ABS and VSC. They work much better than the Campy rim brakes on my bikes, and only require maintenance every 50,000 miles or so.
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Old 05-14-17, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by speshelite View Post
Someone needs to do a valid comparo:

1. high end hydro's on a road bike

2. high end rim brakes on alu rims on a road bike

Dry runs

Wet runs

Riders matched for weight.

Several of you have posted that you have both rim and disc brake road bikes. So someone on the forum could do the tests.

DO IT!!!!!
I'm glad you emphasized good hydraulic disc brakes. Because many people argue for rim brakes when comparing to cheap cable disc brakes. The hydraulic part being the big benefit (no cable stretch, self-adjusting for brake wear).
However, I think the test is moot for two reasons:
1. Most people use ideology when arguing about brakes
2. It is a known and (except by trolls) undisputed fact that when dry both types have sufficient braking power and when wet discs rule. To many road riders the wet may not matter as they don't ride in wet weather. For many commuters it may not matter since speeds are slow.

Conclusion buy whatever you feel and don't try to convince others of what you think is right. I think the market is moving to discs. My preference are hydraulic discs, but if good rim brakes float you boat, hell buy them and be happy.

Good brakes always are good, but I think most riders get injured (or killed) when being hit by another vehicle, not by running into one (due to weak brakes).
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Old 05-14-17, 11:40 AM
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Covers some of your questions.
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Old 05-14-17, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dabac View Post
Until limited by wheel lock or OTB, discs in general and hydros in particular will provide more braking per unit of hand effort.
Which is why I don't understand everyone that says you get better modulation out of disc.

I don't have a lot of experience with disc, just on some Trek plus size and fat bikes I demo'd one day, but I found them far easier to lock up, at a much quicker rate, than my rim brakes. I found them way too touchy for my tastes, but maybe it is just something that needs getting used to.
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Old 05-14-17, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
.... maybe it is just something that needs getting used to.
When I first started riding my Workswell, with Ultegras, I couldn't get enough out of the front and locked up the rear too easily.

I was used to a Tiagra front and Tektro rear.

Now that I have some more miles on it, I think i can "modulate" the Ultegra brakes more and am tightening up the rear, which I opened way up to stop lockup in hard stops.

I made a fool of myself a couple times when I first road my MTB with decent hydro-discs. I did all the two-finger stuff and still flopped right over.

In this respect I think discs will win ... but not so long as they weigh what, seven times as much or more.
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Old 05-14-17, 11:50 AM
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Am I supposed to buy a new bike that won't fit my budget to get hydraulic disc brakes?

I'm more than willing to pay taxes, but I'm totally unwilling to let some s*****k on the 'net tell me how to spend my leisure dollars. Really, I will continue to use my C & V rim brakes. If you're offended, well, ....
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Old 05-14-17, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Which is why I don't understand everyone that says you get better modulation out of disc.

I don't have a lot of experience with disc, just on some Trek plus size and fat bikes I demo'd one day, but I found them far easier to lock up, at a much quicker rate, than my rim brakes. I found them way too touchy for my tastes, but maybe it is just something that needs getting used to.
I went from roller brakes to hydraulic disc brakes on my daily commuter, or in other words from the highest effort brakes to the lowest effort brakes available.
At first I thought I made a mistake, but I quickly got used to the difference, and realized how much easier they are to control in challenging conditions and circumstances.
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Old 05-14-17, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by speshelite View Post
Someone needs to do a valid comparo:

1. high end hydro's on a road bike

2. high end rim brakes on alu rims on a road bike

Dry runs

Wet runs

Riders matched for weight.

Several of you have posted that you have both rim and disc brake road bikes. So someone on the forum could do the tests.

DO IT!!!!!
Why should they, because YOU say so? Ha, ha.
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Old 05-14-17, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Anyone can go slow, it takes genius to go fast.
-Ferrari
[On brakes being practically non-existent on his cars] "I make cars to go. Not to stop."
-Ettore Bugatti
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Old 05-14-17, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by philbob57 View Post
Am I supposed to buy a new bike that won't fit my budget to get hydraulic disc brakes?

I'm more than willing to pay taxes, but I'm totally unwilling to let some s*****k on the 'net tell me how to spend my leisure dollars. Really, I will continue to use my C & V rim brakes. If you're offended, well, ....
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Old 05-14-17, 02:44 PM
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Coward supporters of discs are afraid of the truth.
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