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What would be faster used Schwinn Paramount or entry level Trek Road bike?

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What would be faster used Schwinn Paramount or entry level Trek Road bike?

Old 05-20-17, 05:54 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Barabaika View Post
That's how they worked on my Bridgestone; though, they were stem-mounted Shimano L-412 shifters.
Two or three clicks, and you switch to the next cog.
The way your earlier description made it sound is that the clicks aligned in an "indexed" way to the gears, with 2 clicks/gear. That's what I was objecting to.

"Two or three clicks" is different, and basically "move it until it shifts." That's universally called "friction shifting", even when the mechanism is more complex than just a friction plate.

(Also, if the Shimano ones work like the SunTour ones I use, they only click in one direction. They can't be just a ratchet when you're shifting toward small cogs, because the shifter would have nothing holding it against the parallelogram tension.)
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Old 05-20-17, 10:45 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
That is the great white whale we bike enthusiasts are after. A pristine, high end steel frame. The best of the best. And hardly used in 30 years. All for a couple of hundred bucks. The problem is thanks to the internet, owners of rare and valuable older bikes know what they have. And for every bike like that, you find a lot of junk. Lower end heavy frames, entry level components, or decent components, but worn out and in need of repair. And that is where you need to decide. Am I looking to ride a bike, or am I looking for a project?

My view is, if you are just looking to ride, today's mass produced sub $1,000 bike is very good indeed. It might not win you any bragging rights, nor will it be a valuable collectors item, but you will probably get 5 to 10 years or more enjoyment from it, maybe more.
That's the thing, it doesn't have to be in pristine condition. The most likely thing not to work on an older bike is shifters. (If they're downtube though, you can almost guarantee you can get them to work.) If the frame was a high end frame it likely already has a good set of brakes and a crankset. Sure, you may have to replace a ring due to wear, but that's not a big deal.

I suggest buying a mid 90s "classic" bike because it'll likely already have a 130mm spacing and probably is set up for brifters. Which means you can buy new replacement brifters and have a very nice, classic bike for less than half of a new bike. Less than 3/4 if you take it to a shop to have them fully service it.

All 3 of my classic road bikes were in disrepair when I bought them. The Mondonico was so rusted that the presta valve couldn't be opened because the screw thing was rusted to the body. Or corroded since it's probably not steel.
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Old 05-20-17, 11:53 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
That's the thing, it doesn't have to be in pristine condition. The most likely thing not to work on an older bike is shifters. (If they're downtube though, you can almost guarantee you can get them to work.) If the frame was a high end frame it likely already has a good set of brakes and a crankset. Sure, you may have to replace a ring due to wear, but that's not a big deal.

I suggest buying a mid 90s "classic" bike because it'll likely already have a 130mm spacing and probably is set up for brifters. Which means you can buy new replacement brifters and have a very nice, classic bike for less than half of a new bike. Less than 3/4 if you take it to a shop to have them fully service it.

All 3 of my classic road bikes were in disrepair when I bought them. The Mondonico was so rusted that the presta valve couldn't be opened because the screw thing was rusted to the body. Or corroded since it's probably not steel.
I get it. I bought a used Gitane fitted with a mix of modern and vintage components from a LBS in ready to ride condition for my son for a lot less than a decent new road bike. But that isn't what OP proposes to do. He wants to spend $1,000 on a Schwinn Paramount of unknown provenance and condition off ebay, or spend the same money on a new modern road bike. I think OP needs to educate himself more before diving into classic and vintage.
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Old 05-21-17, 05:01 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by exmechanic89 View Post
Buy the newer bike. For someone with little to no knowledge of cycling, buying an old Paramount - or any vintage bike - is not a good idea, imo. Also as others have said, you need to get yourself in shape, the bike really has very little to do with how fast or far you'll go. Even if you could afford a $10k race bike, you'd still get killed by people on much lesser rides going by what you said in your other thread. Practice makes perfect..
Yeah a problem I have is I have no idea how to repair or fix bikes at all or put parts on and take parts off. I don't even know how to fix a flat tire. So if I got a vintage bike and bought new parts for it I would have to take it to a bike shop and have them do it. That is why I am thinking maybe just a new road bike would be best for me. I really love the look of the old Schwinn bikes though. If I could find a bike shop that would be willing to make all the upgrades and swap in new parts/ take out old parts for a cheap price I would be very tempted to buy a Schwinn Paramount. Realistically though a new bike is probably the better option for me ... even though I really do like the look of those old Schwinn's
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Old 05-21-17, 05:55 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by tagaproject6 View Post
Those are some sexy bikes
#jealous
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Old 05-21-17, 06:19 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by littleArnold View Post
Yeah a problem I have is I have no idea how to repair or fix bikes at all or put parts on and take parts off. I don't even know how to fix a flat tire. So if I got a vintage bike and bought new parts for it I would have to take it to a bike shop and have them do it. That is why I am thinking maybe just a new road bike would be best for me. I really love the look of the old Schwinn bikes though. If I could find a bike shop that would be willing to make all the upgrades and swap in new parts/ take out old parts for a cheap price I would be very tempted to buy a Schwinn Paramount. Realistically though a new bike is probably the better option for me ... even though I really do like the look of those old Schwinn's
What about a Schwinn Voyageur or a Super LeTour. They have a lot of the same qualities as a Paramount. And you could learn some basic mechanics. Both are really easy bikes to work on, and they came in chrome finish too. Then perhaps splurge on a Paramount later.
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Old 05-21-17, 06:46 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by littleArnold View Post
Yeah a problem I have is I have no idea how to repair or fix bikes at all or put parts on and take parts off. I don't even know how to fix a flat tire. So if I got a vintage bike and bought new parts for it I would have to take it to a bike shop and have them do it. That is why I am thinking maybe just a new road bike would be best for me. I really love the look of the old Schwinn bikes though. If I could find a bike shop that would be willing to make all the upgrades and swap in new parts/ take out old parts for a cheap price I would be very tempted to buy a Schwinn Paramount. Realistically though a new bike is probably the better option for me ... even though I really do like the look of those old Schwinn's
Part of owning vintage bikes is the learning of how to maintain and refurbish them. It could be a learn-as-you-go thing. Sounds like you have a bit of a liking for the old bikes. Anything you need to know about the processes you can find here, you'll just need a few tools. After that, you won't be hindered by "I have no idea how to repair or fix bikes at all." Then you'll know.
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Old 05-21-17, 07:41 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by tagaproject6 View Post
Those are some sexy bikes
Thanks! I actually took out the Prologue and the Campione for 25 mile rides each yesterday. Quite fun!

This one was another cheap buy although I'm admit that cosmetically it's not that nice and it's a mess of parts thrown together. French shifters on a Spanish frame shifting a Japanese RD through Taiwanese cables to move the chain on a Italian cassette and hub surrounded by a french rim shod in German rubber and connected with Swiss spokes driven by an old American. And it all works so great. I've done nothing to it since buying it locally either. Paid next to nothing.



Same bike model Pedro Delgado won the Vuelta on in 1985 and a stage of the Tour De France so the pedigree is there.

For the OP:
A well sorted vintage ride is not going to need anymore mechanical help than a new bike. Either way, down the road you'll need to learn or pay someone.
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Old 05-21-17, 07:49 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by littleArnold View Post
I really love the look of the old Schwinn bikes though. If I could find a bike shop that would be willing to make all the upgrades and swap in new parts/ take out old parts for a cheap price I would be very tempted to buy a Schwinn Paramount. Realistically though a new bike is probably the better option for me ... even though I really do like the look of those old Schwinn's
If you love the old Schwinn, that's definitely what you should buy. If you need to replace components, it really isn't that difficult or expensive, especially if you aren't dead set on an exact period correct restoration.

An old Paramount has soul. Nothing you're going buy in that price range new can offer that. Buy what you love and you'll be happier in the long run.
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Old 05-21-17, 09:03 AM
  #60  
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Here is the vintage Gitane I bought for my son. As you can see, the paint job is a little scratched up, but the frame is very good quality. I didn't buy this so much for the love of vintage, but rather as a stop gap as my son is now almost 5'11" and still growing, and I viewed the scuffed up look as a bit of an asset. To the untrained eye, it looks like just another beater. And, it only cost me $225 out of pocket, where as a new entry level bike would have cost me $800 or $900.
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Old 05-21-17, 10:51 AM
  #61  
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It seems to me the thread starter has no interest in working on bikes or learning how to work on bikes. The answer becomes very simple, buy new and good luck to you Sir.

"I really do like the look of those old Schwinn's" of course you do who doesn't?
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Old 05-21-17, 11:10 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Schwinn me View Post
It seems to me the thread starter has no interest in working on bikes or learning how to work on bikes. The answer becomes very simple, buy new and good luck to you Sir.

"I really do like the look of those old Schwinn's" of course you do who doesn't?
I agree. OP doesn't even know how to change a tire at this point, and folks are suggesting he buy an entire groupset, as if OP even knows what a groupset is, or if the parts will even fit the particular frame he is buying. If OP says, I am looking to learn some basic wrenching AND I prefer the look and feel of older bikes, then the answer is clear. Buy something vintage, and start learning some basic bike repair. But OP is a complete novice who just bought a new bike a few months ago and now apparently has the need for speed, now.
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Old 05-21-17, 11:13 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
People who know what they are doing can spread the dropouts 4 mm, if the frame is steel.

I've put wider rear axle assemblies in steel bikes without any problems but this 4mm question has me a little puzzled. That translates to only 2mm a side, almost nothing. I have had bikes that were tight and probably sprung in that much on the dropouts when removing the rear wheel assembly. Do you really need to bend the frame for a slip fit? It's not that big of deal getting it back together with tight dropouts.
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Old 05-21-17, 12:32 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
I agree. OP doesn't even know how to change a tire at this point, and folks are suggesting he buy an entire groupset, as if OP even knows what a groupset is, or if the parts will even fit the particular frame he is buying. If OP says, I am looking to learn some basic wrenching AND I prefer the look and feel of older bikes, then the answer is clear. Buy something vintage, and start learning some basic bike repair. But OP is a complete novice who just bought a new bike a few months ago and now apparently has the need for speed, now.
your right I have absolutely no idea what a groupset is and I would have no clue what parts fit what particular frame. I am a complete novice to putting bikes together and fixing them, a bike shop or friend would have to do that. Part reason I like the old Schwinns is my father had a Schwinn road bike growing up and would take me on bike trips riding his Schwinn. So the old Schwinn's bring back memories.

For low end new road bikes looking at Trek, Cannondale, and Giant not sure which would be the better bike. There is the Cannondale Optimo Claris $749, The Giant Contend for $810, and the Trek 1.1 for $769.99. Unless there is a huge difference between the Trek 1.1 and 1.2 that costs like $200 more I probably would just stick with the 1.1.
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Old 05-21-17, 12:49 PM
  #65  
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The Schwinn Voyageur also commands high prices like the Paramount.
It looks like a very decent bike, but it was built as a touring bike.
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/6083386003.html

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Old 05-21-17, 02:14 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by littleArnold View Post
your right I have absolutely no idea what a groupset is and I would have no clue what parts fit what particular frame. I am a complete novice to putting bikes together and fixing them, a bike shop or friend would have to do that. Part reason I like the old Schwinns is my father had a Schwinn road bike growing up and would take me on bike trips riding his Schwinn. So the old Schwinn's bring back memories.

For low end new road bikes looking at Trek, Cannondale, and Giant not sure which would be the better bike. There is the Cannondale Optimo Claris $749, The Giant Contend for $810, and the Trek 1.1 for $769.99. Unless there is a huge difference between the Trek 1.1 and 1.2 that costs like $200 more I probably would just stick with the 1.1.
For repairs, maybe you could find someone to barter with saving some $$.
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Old 05-21-17, 05:29 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by littleArnold View Post
your right I have absolutely no idea what a groupset is and I would have no clue what parts fit what particular frame. I am a complete novice to putting bikes together and fixing them, a bike shop or friend would have to do that. Part reason I like the old Schwinns is my father had a Schwinn road bike growing up and would take me on bike trips riding his Schwinn. So the old Schwinn's bring back memories.

For low end new road bikes looking at Trek, Cannondale, and Giant not sure which would be the better bike. There is the Cannondale Optimo Claris $749, The Giant Contend for $810, and the Trek 1.1 for $769.99. Unless there is a huge difference between the Trek 1.1 and 1.2 that costs like $200 more I probably would just stick with the 1.1.
Giant Contend 1 is 9 speed. Trek 1.1 is 8 speed. Trek 1.2 is 9 speed. Both 8 and 9 speed are obsolete as the higher level Shimano groups are all 11 speed these days. IMO well worth going with the 9 speed if you can swing it. IMO, on paper, the Giant looks like the best value at $810. I say on paper because you might find something you like better about the Cannondale or the Trek. Take a few test rides and decide for yourself.
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Old 05-21-17, 06:53 PM
  #68  
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You know, I avoid the C&V forum, as I really have no more space for bikes. All this thread is doing is reminding me of the N+1 rule.

Yesterday I was going to blow past a rider when I realized he was ridding a lugged Bianchi, complete with Brooks, fenders, single pannier, GPS and brifters. Gorgeous green paint. I hung with him for a while, he was nice to chat with but I'd be lying if I didn't admit to some jealousy.
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Old 05-21-17, 07:54 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by supton View Post
You know, I avoid the C&V forum, as I really have no more space for bikes. All this thread is doing is reminding me of the N+1 rule.

Yesterday I was going to blow past a rider when I realized he was ridding a lugged Bianchi, complete with Brooks, fenders, single pannier, GPS and brifters. Gorgeous green paint. I hung with him for a while, he was nice to chat with but I'd be lying if I didn't admit to some jealousy.
Give in to the darkside!

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Old 05-26-17, 06:00 AM
  #70  
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Sorry for delay in reply. I have multiple myeloma which is a terminal bone marrow/ blood cancer and I have been in and out of hospital having stem cells harvested and bone/ bone marrow biopsy in preparation of a stem cell transplant.
Very nice bicycles you have jamesdak.
In my reply to the poster I did say it was "really can not be upgraded to modern cassette/ hub combination due to drop out widths", but in the following sentence I did say that "you can get the rear drop outs re-bent and hopefully the will be re-bent straight".
I am sure that rear drops out can be re bent and I apologize for any confusion my post caused. However, I still stand by that re bending rear drop outs and spreading the rear triangle is a bit more complicated than it appears. I am not sating it is impossible, and I have seen it done correctly, however, I have seen a lot more done incorrectly. There is a reason frame makers have so many jigs to keep the drop outs straight. There is more to it than simply spreading the rear triangle and that is what I was trying to express to OP, not that it could not be done but it is a bit complicated to get it done correctly and probably should be done by experience bicycle frame person.
At any rate I hope you all the best and I hope the OP has made a good choice and is enjoying his new or new to him bicycle.
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Old 05-26-17, 06:57 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by mulveyr View Post
Until you're an actual fit racer where equipment makes a difference, no bike of a given type is going to be "faster." The rider is what makes the bike fast when you're a recreational/enthusiast rider, not vice-versa.
Your quote has saved me thousands of dollars this week. I find bikes are like M & Ms -- can't stop at just one, or four....

I currently have five bikes, two x-country mtb, fat bike, dual-sport and a cheap Trek Verve hybrid that I bought for nearby grocery runs but am now using to commute to work. Find myself perusing better commuter/city bikes online but am finding persuasive the observations in this thread about the rider being by far the most important component.

My commute is just a few miles so I'll work on my riding fitness for awhile longer before adding to my bike stable.
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Old 05-27-17, 07:23 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by 2 Piece View Post
Sorry for delay in reply. I have multiple myeloma which is a terminal bone marrow/ blood cancer and I have been in and out of hospital having stem cells harvested and bone/ bone marrow biopsy in preparation of a stem cell transplant.
Very nice bicycles you have jamesdak.
In my reply to the poster I did say it was "really can not be upgraded to modern cassette/ hub combination due to drop out widths", but in the following sentence I did say that "you can get the rear drop outs re-bent and hopefully the will be re-bent straight".
I am sure that rear drops out can be re bent and I apologize for any confusion my post caused. However, I still stand by that re bending rear drop outs and spreading the rear triangle is a bit more complicated than it appears. I am not sating it is impossible, and I have seen it done correctly, however, I have seen a lot more done incorrectly. There is a reason frame makers have so many jigs to keep the drop outs straight. There is more to it than simply spreading the rear triangle and that is what I was trying to express to OP, not that it could not be done but it is a bit complicated to get it done correctly and probably should be done by experience bicycle frame person.
At any rate I hope you all the best and I hope the OP has made a good choice and is enjoying his new or new to him bicycle.
No worries, really!

I've got at least 6 of the 126mm frames running modern 130 wheelsets without any issues and for several years and thousands of miles. Out of curiousity about a year ago I checked alignment on all of these with the "string method", all good. There is some who believe if you do this without having the rear dropouts realigned you put added stress on the rear axle and it will break. I've yet to experience this but I won't say it's not true. I honestly don't know but haven't had a problem so I don't worry about it. The tightest fit is the blue Orbea I posted above. That's the one frame I keep considering having done professionally since it's so tight. Yet it's also my roughest bike and I don't like the thought of spending the money on it, LOL!

I think the usual consensuses is that the 4mm spread you have to do is just not enough to make it any kind of real problem. That's certainly my opinion based on my experiences but it is just that, an opinion.
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Old 05-27-17, 11:32 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
There is some who believe if you do this without having the rear dropouts realigned you put added stress on the rear axle and it will break. I've yet to experience this but I won't say it's not true.
You can realign the dropouts using a DIY tool.

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Old 05-28-17, 07:27 AM
  #74  
capnjonny 
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Location: Saratoga calif.
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Bikes: Miyata 610(66cm), GT Vantara Hybrid (64cm), Nishiki International (64cm), Peugeot rat rod (62 cm), Trek 800 Burning Man helicopter bike, Bob Jackson frame (to be restored?) plus a never ending stream of neglected waifs from the Bike exchange.

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What ever else you do ride the bike before purchase. No mater what the bike looks like or the specs if it doesn't feel right you won't like it.

A couple years ago I went to look at a used bike I thought should fit me. When I tried to ride it it just felt wrong.

I have to say Every one of my bikes( all vintage) feel and ride differently. And I find my self liking each for their differences. They each cost me less than $100. and some are stock and others have been modified a lot. They include a 1980 Raleigh Record ace and Miata 610, a 1994 GT Vantara , A 1984 Nishiki International, and a Trek 800 mountain bike with ape hanger bars and a fox tail. All except the last 64 cm size.

If at all possible I recommend that you find a co op in your area and start volunteering with them. I started volunteering at the Silicon Valley Bicycle Exchange about 4 years ago and it has been extremely rewarding for me. I have gone from complete novice to Semi pro bicycle mechanic , met some wonderful people who share my interests, and have played a growing part in donating 500 bikes per year to people in need.

These days I scour the bike pile for bikes worthy of special treatment and take them home to work on. I recently refurbished a Raleigh professional and a beautiful custom built touring bike and just took home a Miata 110 and a Raleigh Super Course mixte . All these high end bikes will be refurbished to as new mechanical condition and sold to finance our all volunteer operation. Yesterday someone came in and bought a 1978 Raleigh sport 3 speed I had completely restored to better than new condition for $125. That bike was stunningly beautiful with perfect paint in root beer brown.

So, buy a new bike or by a good used bike, but if you really love bikes, volunteer at your local co op. If you are lucky enough to find one like the Silicon Valley bicycle Exchange It could be a life changing experience.

Last edited by capnjonny; 05-28-17 at 07:30 AM.
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