corrado33

I'll have to partially disagree with you here.

Buy the old bike. Why? Because you won't be afraid to screw it up. I own a few high end steel road bikes from the 80s and 90s. They are miles ahead of any entry level bike I could buy today. I know because I own one of those too. My steel Landshark with full dura ace 7400 is 100x better and more comfortable than riding a modern entry level aluminum bike with Tigara or 105. And yes, I can tell the difference in brifters between those. The shifting is more crisp, quicker, and is much more "positive." I have to move my dura ace lever a half inch (at the end of the lever) to shift. I have to move my sora lever 2-4 inches to accomplish the same thing.

My theory is this. If you buy old high end bikes, you're getting the best of the best. The absolute best, no holds barred components that are extremely nice. Whereas if you're buying a modern entry level you're getting the cheap, heavy, ugly sister to the best of the best.

Not to mention the price. You could easily buy 3-4 high end steel road bikes from the 80s-90s for less than a single entry level road bike.

In my garage right now I have 3 amazing steel road bikes from '85-'96. Two are hand built custom bikes (built for someone else obviously), one from italy, one from the US, and the last is a mass produced, but still very nice italian bike. I also have a modern entry level road bike. Between the three old steel bikes I've spent less than half of the money I spent on that entry level bike. Guess which ones get ridden more? In fact, the modern bike is my "rain" bike, that's how much I care about it.

And, if you buy an old bike and fix it up to spend the same amount of money, you end up with a truly bada** bike.

In conclusion: Buy the high end old bike. Take it to a shop and pay them $100-$150 to do a complete overhaul. That way you end up with a very nice bike that works well and you didn't have to work on. And you still end up spending less than half of a new bike.

Retro Grouch 

Why that's easy.

Whichever bike fits you better will definitely be faster and the faster you are able to ride the greater difference it will make.

Riders fret endlessly about details like shifting systems and components, wheels and tire rolling resistance. Once you surpass about 15 MPH, however, the effect of all other factors combined on your speed is exceeded by the energy that's required to push your torso through the air.

If you want to go faster, work on your position on the bike.

MarcusT

The best analogy I can come up with is: You can drive a 1970 Fastback Mustang or a 2017 Mustang. The '17 is faster, has better handling and should be more reliable, but I'll feel a little more at one with the road driving the '70. Not to mention it'll be a conversation piece with true aficionados.
BTW, I have both, a 2006 Trek and a custom built from 1983

McBTC

True, true but the same could have been said in e.g. '83... I could'a had'a '60 Schwinn Continental or maybe even a '63 15 speed Schwinn Sierra...

big chainring 

I'm in Chicago. Putting a '91 58cm Basso on ebay today. Gotta pay my rent next week and I am short. $400 takes it. PM me if interested.

Schwinn me

I don't understand why you limited yourself to these two bikes, they're so different. You can get mint/hardly ridden vintage road bikes on local Craigslist's if you shop for couple months at giveaway prices. Learn the basics of repacking bearings and other adjustments and when you're ready sell that and buy what you really want. With an old Paramount you're probably going to need a new saddle and rims right off the bat besides the usual refurb costs. Gotta learn how to fix and maintain your own bikes to not be in the red at the start with vintage bikes.

Believe it or not Walmart might be good choice for you. Be prepared to go through all the bearings, the couple kids bikes I bought had the bearing adjustments way too tight, rolling resistance for sure.

2 Piece

Freewheels on vintage bicycles all have a wiggle in them due to the thread pitch on to the hub and can not be fixed.
Vintage bicycles really can not be upgraded to modern cassette/ hub combination due to drop out widths. You can force fit a cassette/hub assembly into a 126mm width freewheel, but its no fun. You can get the rear drop outs re-bent and hopefully the will be re-bent straight. A lot of vintage bicycles do not have index shifting, which leaves you searching for the right gear.
Vintage bicycles are a lot like vintage cars. They are nice to own and look at and to take to shows and charity rides but not really practical to ride everyday if you have a choice. Older style freewheels are getting harder to find, the older style stems are also getting harder to find. It is hard to beat new technologies and the new standards.
I will also argue that a road bike IS faster than a hybrid, given the cyclist riding the road and hybrid are equal.

fietsbob

Steel frames Can be spread, C&V thread on the topic is full of successes.


Faster .. is WORK !

RunForTheHills

If your plan is to buy the bike on credit and slowly pay it off over time, you can't afford the bike. If you put $20 into a jar every week, you will be able to pay cash for the bike in a year and that will give you lots of time to research what you really want in a bicycle.

jamesdak 

LOL, so wrong. Fitting a 130mm modern wheel into a vintage frame spaced at 126mm is no problem at all. You can have it done easily and professionally if you want but I'm running modern gear on quite a few CV bikes. Quill stems are plentiful too unless so weird unique size. I'm not saying CV bikes are for everyone but please at least be informed before sharing information. Any competent bike shop can align dropouts if you do want to spread the frame and am worried about it.

MRT2

Don't know if I agree with the premise of the question. On the one hand, you had something like the Trek 1.2 or the Giant Contend, which will give you a light aluminum frame, carbon fork, 9 speed Sora components, compact double drive train, and weigh about 21 to 22 lbs (depending on the size) all for about $900. Upgrade the wheels in the future and you might get the total weight of the bike down to the sub 20 lbs category. But it is a mass produced bike made in China or Taiwan, and built to a price point.

Buy yourself a Schwinn Paramount and you get one of the best hand made bikes made, 35 or 40 years ago. It is a classic, but it probably has downtube shifters, standard double chainrings, and 5 or 6 speed freewheel. All out of date, but modernizing a Paramount is a bit like drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

IMO, there is no comparison. If you are looking to ride a bike fast, the entry level modern bike is the way to go. If you are asking which is the better bike, the Paramount is a classic, and by far the more desireable bike.

FWIW, it isn't an either/or, as there are other alternatives. There are vintage bikes that are not as collectible as the Paramount, where you could play around with putting modern components on. And, there are modern mid level road bikes that 3 to 10 years old that are functionally almost identical to a modern entry level, maybe a bit better, available for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a modern bike.

Late last fall, I worked out a deal a used road bike for my son from a LBS. He needed a road bike as he had outgrown the hybrid he was riding for around town and road rides with his mother and me. Problem was, we had only recently paid a bunch of money for a new mountain bike and I didn't want to spend $900 or so for a new Trek or Giant road bike for occasional use.

My out of pocket was $225, though I did throw in a very old mountain bike that was just taking up space in my garage as part of the deal. It was sort of a one off project. The frame is a vintage Gitane from the early 80s, but surprisingly light. Standard double, which with a modern cassette is insanely tall gearing for an old guy like me, but perfectly functional for a teenager who competes in mountain bike races. Some quick research suggested it was an mid to upper end frame when it was new. Somebody put modern brifters on it sometime in the 90s, as they were Shimano 600 (the predecessor to 105) and it was 8 speed. The derailleurs are modern entry level Shimano. The package is completed by two mismatched wheels, one Mavic Open Pro and other Velocity. But, both wheels came with Ultegra hubs. And, older Ultegra brakes.

If you look around and have patience, deals like that are around. You just need to know what to look for.

MRT2

I agree that in general, it might make sense for OP to go modern, but you can modernize an older steel frame. My lbs has done it with my son's vintage Gitane, and my wife's vintage Peugeot. I brought the Peugeot in for a bit of a facelift as the original front derailleur broke. So I asked the guys at the bike shop if they could maybe put a 6 speed on instead of a 5 making it a 1 x 6. They said, how about an 8, 9 or 10 speed? I asked, is it possible? It was, and they did. The Peugeot is now a 1 x 9.

2 Piece

You making me laugh out loud as well. Guess you better tell all the bicycle manufactures to go back to 126mm no need for 130mm, or maybe tell them just to make 130mm and that way the free wheel guys can just squeeze the rear drop outs to fit their 126mm and the guys using 135mm can re bend their drop outs to fit. Just think how much money they could save having to only make one size drop out spacing frame! Of course I think they are now making some 146mm spacing and those guys are going to be out of luck. I did state you could bend your 126mm to fit 130mm. Still doesn't do anything about the vintage parts being practically obsolete. By the time the OP who is on a small budget and seems to have very little wrenching experience, tries to update a vintage frame he will be dollars had to just go ahead and buy newer spec'd bicycle.

MRT2

People who know what they are doing can spread the dropouts 4 mm, if the frame is steel.

dedhed

254 pages says otherwise.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...i-s-ergos.html

MRT2

That is the great white whale we bike enthusiasts are after. A pristine, high end steel frame. The best of the best. And hardly used in 30 years. All for a couple of hundred bucks. The problem is thanks to the internet, owners of rare and valuable older bikes know what they have. And for every bike like that, you find a lot of junk. Lower end heavy frames, entry level components, or decent components, but worn out and in need of repair. And that is where you need to decide. Am I looking to ride a bike, or am I looking for a project?

My view is, if you are just looking to ride, today's mass produced sub $1,000 bike is very good indeed. It might not win you any bragging rights, nor will it be a valuable collectors item, but you will probably get 5 to 10 years or more enjoyment from it, maybe more.

jamesdak 

No need for me to address the dropout thing with you as many others have already chimed in. Really not trying to be snarky with you but the fact is it's really a non-issue.

Freewheels are getting harder to find yet not really. The beauty of Ebay as well as some new folks stepping in to produce them for the market.

And it's really not hard to find quality old bikes for cheap locally in my experience.

$50 and all I did was replace the bars, retape, and put on new brake handles because I could. Even the old tires were fine but I put on my preferred ones.



$300 and totally stripped and serviced. I've done nothing to it but ride it. Oh, and new saddle but to me that's a given with any "new to you" bike.



$400 and new tape.



A couple of hundred and this thing is mint and has needed nothing. In fact I'm fixing to head out for 25 miles on this one.



$600 with fresh repaint and service. I dare any modern $1000 bike to ride as smooth as this baby.



It really isn't hard and high quality old rides in the $200-$300 range aren't nothing to find. Even with another $100-$200 to pay a LBS to completely go over it and you're still ahead of most $1000 modern rides.

And really, the maintenance isn't any different. Bikes are still bikes. In fact the young guys at my LBS always gush over my bikes and who get's to work on them. You better believe they get well taken care of.

In fact my 2015 Lynskey ti bike gives me nothing that these don't and I'm selling it. What a waste of good money for pretty much zero gain....

Barabaika

You should check old bicycle catalogs from the 80s.
You'll find plenty of nice machines of that era.

1985 Bridgestone Bicycle Catalogue
Miyata Bicycle Catalogs
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesb...7613538725170/

These bikes appear quite often on Craigslist.
Team-Miyata: img037.jpg (image)

Miyata 912: img040.jpg (image)
Miyata 1000: img043.jpg (image)

Barabaika

You can get modern micro-indexed shifters - you move the shifter lever two clicks to switch to the next cog.

Most cogs of a typical 11-speed cassette are not used. While you can easily use the big chain ring -> the big cog combination on a 6-speed freewheel; for some reason, it doesn't work on an 11-speed cassette, which costs 5 time more.

ENE BAR END CONTROL | DIA-COMPE

tagaproject6

Those are some sexy bikes

mstateglfr 

This simply isnt accurate.

- full Tiagra groupset for $325. Thats STI, brake calipers, crank, bb, chain, and cassette.
- New wheels from velomine or nashbar for $130-250 depending on what you want. From $200 up you can get excellent hubs, rims, and butted spokes.
- New bar tape for $15.
- new cables and housing for $15-30.


$480ish to $560ish for 10sp with all new everything.
$200 for a shop to fully clean and set up the bike.

That leaves $300-400 to get a great frame and still be at the same price as the entry level modern bike.
You will have a bike with more character and higher quality components.



Or- if a bike from '87ish thru '99ish is used(and more modern too) that is a quality steel frame, you can just keep the brake calipers and the derailleurs to save.
Add some $95 Sora STIs, a $55 crankset, a $20 cassette, and $10 chain. Bartape and cables for $40. Then new wheels.
Thats $360-430. And if your bike is from the mid90s or newer, you wont need new wheels.



Seriously though, this isnt scrounging to piece stuff together- a high quality steel frame with all new Tiagra everything AND assempbled by a shop for less than a Sora and generic component spec'd retail bike.

Or a sora drivetrain and high quality wheelset and components for less than a new bike.



You say it isnt realistic and costly, but all this can also be done for hundreds less than thebscenarios i listed too.

Gresp15C

Clearly, the bike that looks better, will be faster.

HTupolev

The wobbling that freewheeling mechanisms have isn't due to the thread pitch; if the pitch was causing the freewheel to sit at an angle, it would just sit statically at an angle. But that's not significant either, because that's not how threading works (threaded objects thread more or less straight onto each other; the threads are angled, but the relative motions of the objects being threaded together aren't).

The reason that freewheels wobble is that the bearing/pawl system has wobble. Which also happens in freehubs. The deciding factor is mostly just how good they are; the vintage SunTour Winner freewheel on my '79 Fuji America is nearly perfectly straight and stable, and the low-end freehub on my Stumpjumper drop bar conversion wobbles half as bad as a Walmart bike freewheel.

"Hopefully they will re-bend straight"? You don't just hold the frame against a workbench and whack it with a hammer, there are methods for doing it.

Not really much of an issue on a 6 speed. The biggest caveat to vintage friction shifting is the matter of where the lever goes, not finding gears. Finding gears is something that can be mostly figured out for a bike in one short ride.

I have one bike where the rear shifter can index the 7s cassette, but I keep it in friction mode just because it feels lighter.

Not really. Ebay is absolutely flooded with ones in the weird sizes that nobody wants to use anymore, and the usual stuff like 14-28 is still made new by several manufacturers.

Not really. You can still get the high-end Nitto models new, and just like freewheels, there are all kinds of choices available on the cheap.

That's not how those work. Those are friction shifters, basically a copy of the old SunTour LD-1400 with a different lever design. The "clicks" are coming from a ratchet attached to a friction plate, and don't align in a consistent way to the cogs.

In some setups it might "just work" if you shift like that, but it's probably not giving you optimal shift performance, and it's more trouble than it's worth to be counting those fine clicks.

jlax2485

It's not hard to spread the dropouts 4mm to fit a 130mm hub/cassette. Not a big deal at all. More than that you would need to cold set. I have a 1981 trek that I rebuilt with a modern shimano 105 group and it is an awesome bike. Reynolds 531 steel, comfortable geometry and it is an amazing ride with the best of both worlds. I am already in the lookout for my next project. Perhaps something Italian

Barabaika

That's how they worked on my Bridgestone; though, they were stem-mounted Shimano L-412 shifters.
Two or three clicks, and you switch to the next cog.

It won't work well with a 10-speed cassette.
But I only use 4 gears on my everyday ride anyway.