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-   -   What would be faster used Schwinn Paramount or entry level Trek Road bike? (https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1108338-what-would-faster-used-schwinn-paramount-entry-level-trek-road-bike.html)

littleArnold 05-18-17 08:32 PM

What would be faster used Schwinn Paramount or entry level Trek Road bike?
 
I feel stupid having this obsession really wanting someday to buy myself a road bike wasting money. I bought a Trek Hybrid a couple months ago should be happy with that, just can't get the thought of owning a road bike out of my head it is like an obsession. I could only afford the cheapest road bike Trek or Giant offers. I would slowly pay if off on credit. Would getting an entry level Trek Road bike, like $1,000 bike be better than say buying a used Schwinn Paramount off of eBay? Was trying figure out what would be the best road bike to buy for no more than $1,000. The problem with buying a used Schwinn Paramount is no warranty and don't know if the bike is in as good condition as seller on eBay claims.

What bike would be faster and a better bike? A used Schwinn Paramount or like a $1,000 entry level Trek or Giant road bike?

mulveyr 05-18-17 09:08 PM

Until you're an actual fit racer where equipment makes a difference, no bike of a given type is going to be "faster." The rider is what makes the bike fast when you're a recreational/enthusiast rider, not vice-versa.

Base your purchasing decision on what you can afford and how comfortable you are with having to potentially work on a used bike.

McBTC 05-18-17 09:11 PM

An old Paramount is pretty retro. My guess is that a new road bike with e.g., 105 components (could be about a grand on sale) will be infinitely better and a lot less hassle than riding a vintage collectable.

thumpism 05-18-17 09:13 PM

Wise words so far. If you can't be sure of the seller or of your own knowledge when buying used, you are better off buying new from a shop you trust.

mstateglfr 05-18-17 09:47 PM


Originally Posted by littleArnold (Post 19594152)
What bike would be faster and a better bike? A used Schwinn Paramount or like a $1,000 entry level Trek or Giant road bike?

You wont be faster on one vs the other.
The motor makes the speed. In good mechanical condition, you will ride both at the same speed.

Fit is most important. Then after that, setup is whats important.

The new bike will have a compact 50/34 crank and most likely an 11-32 cassette. That will allow you to climb hills easier compared to what will for sure come on a classic Paramount, which would traditionally be something like 52/42(or 39) mated to a tight spaced cassette like 13-24.

Older Paramounts(Schwinn US made) will be downtube shifting vs STI on a modern bike. Its night and day different.


I am biased because i love old steel bikes, but i would go for a Paramount or more preferably something high quality thats older.
Few reasons-
-anything made in the 80s and newer thats mid to upper level will be easy to upgrade. Very straight forward and would make for a fantastic bike.
- prices will be significantly less than $1000, even after having upgraded.
- no warranty is needed. The bikes have lasted decades and if they are in good condition there is no reason to think they will suddenly fail. Take it to a bike shop with some components ypu want to upgrade to and ask them to tune the bike up and slap the new stuff on.


I would search locally. Craigslist. Ypu can see the condition that way. Miyata 712, 912, Team, Pro. Centurion Ironman. Schwinn Paramount PDG. Schwinn Prologue. Specialized Allez. Panasonic DX5000.

There are genuinely too many to list(i didnt even start to list all the Italian, Canadian, and American examples) . Tange 1 tubing, Ishiwata 22 tubing, Ishiwata si35, reynolds, columbus- look at the tubing and thatll help determine a higher level frame.

Something like this too-

You could buy an excellent steel road bike for $350. Nee wheelset for $250. New STIs and deraieurs for $200. New crankset for $70. New cables and tape for $50.
That is a high estimate, you could very easily spend hundreds less, and yet even if you did all this upgrading you would still come in less than the new entry level road bike. And the components would be better quality.


Spend an hour looking thru the last few months of posts in this thread.
http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ergos-252.html

SquidPuppet 05-18-17 10:13 PM

Seriously? You've chosen the word "obsession" an I believe that you have chosen well.

http://www.bikeforums.net/general-cy...ster-bike.html

veganbikes 05-18-17 10:14 PM

If it is a real US Paramount go for that always. Those things are awesome. Treks however aren't all that great. Certainly a modern bike with 105 components will probably shift a good bit better than the older stuff but not always.

However as mstateglfr said the main thing is gearing. I have a vintage bike which I love but having a 42 as my smallest chainring at the front and having a 26 as my largest cog in the back is pretty crappy for someone who isn't a good fit hill climber. You might find better gearing on the newer bike. However you can update an old frame with new components and make something really neat but it might cost some cash.

MarcusT 05-18-17 10:19 PM


Originally Posted by McBTC (Post 19594235)
An old Paramount is pretty retro. My guess is that a new road bike with e.g., 105 components (could be about a grand on sale) will be infinitely better and a lot less hassle than riding a vintage collectable.

Infinitely better? Aren't you exaggerating?

Camilo 05-18-17 10:21 PM

If you don't know how to assess, repair and maintain a bike, buy a new one.

My other advice is don't buy any bike you can't pay cash for. Going into debt for a bike - when you already have something to ride - is crazy and can I say, not smart, in my opinion.

Ride your hybrid, save your money and buy the bike you can afford. Don't be fooled by people who say - in Shimano terms - that you shouldn't buy a "Sora" or "Tiagara" level bike. They're fine and will serve you well for many years.

McBTC 05-18-17 10:30 PM


Originally Posted by MarcusT (Post 19594358)
Infinitely better? Aren't you exaggerating?

I'd say it would be immeasurably better at the very least...

mstateglfr 05-18-17 11:23 PM


Originally Posted by McBTC (Post 19594369)
I'd say it would be immeasurably better at the very least...

Trek, one of the companies mentioned, has Sora on their 2 bikes below and above $1000.
The 1.2 is $930, so basically $1000 with tax. The Domane ALR3 is $1150 so basically $1250 with tax.

The Emonda ALR5 does have 105....but that coats $1680.
If you can get that on sale for $1000, cool. I wouldnt plan for that though.

A brick and mortar bike shop sells Sora at the $1k mark. All day every day. That is the component group for $1k. Sometimes a lesser brand will get tiagra to slide in at that price point, but not Trek.

600 tricolor works as well as current gen 105. Both shift perfect without issue. 105 from the early 90s?...yup, also shifts just fine now.
I have 9sp ultegra STIs that are closing in on 20years old. Ised em tonight to ride a hilly 33 miles. Tons of shifting and it was all as expected.

Eek, i dont even used chainrings that are ramped or pinned!

Upper tier from 20 and 30 years ago, in good condition, is more than enough quality and performamce for most riders on the road today. They wouldnt be missing out on anything.

Darth Lefty 05-19-17 12:12 AM


Originally Posted by MarcusT (Post 19594358)
Infinitely better? Aren't you exaggerating?

At least an order of magnitude though it depends on how vintage is the vintage. I don't ride my Paramount often even though it's my best riding bike, because the gearing is high and the shifting sucks. The freewheel can't be shimmed properly so it rocks, tick tick tick. Its middle gear is worn, rumble rumble. The shifters are the Campy 1014 version that had metal washers so they have to be screwed down tight and the lever effort is high. Even retrofriction shifters are a huge improvement, much less indexing. The NR rear derailleur doesn't really like the 14-28 freewheel that well and sometimes it rumbles the idler on the cog or upshifts from bottom gear under effort. In spite of the bigger freewheel, 42-28 is still a really high bottom gear, about 40 inches. The top gear isn't as high as a modern bike either though that's probably not important unless you're riding in an athletic group. The rear shifts are spaced +20% instead of the +10% that you get by having twice as many rear cogs.

Barabaika 05-19-17 02:05 AM

For $1,000 you can buy an electric bike kit.
Your bike will be 3 times faster than any Paramount.

PepeM 05-19-17 05:37 AM

Go to craigslist, find a used bike for ~$300 and ride the heck out of it. It will be as 'fast' as any other road bike out there.

PepeM 05-19-17 05:41 AM

A 30 second search yields stuff like this:

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/6138098325.html

Get someone like that. It's Chicago, there must be a million used bikes available. Make sure to get the right size though, don't get something just because it is 'a deal.' Good luck.

IamAlan 05-19-17 05:54 AM

I know where you're coming from.
Last year, I bought a Specialized Sirrus carbon comp hybrid and I do enjoy it immensely.
But, I too had the itch for a road bike and couldn't justify spending yet another $1600 on a second bike.
Working next door to a bike shop that is an authorized Bianchi distributer, the color celeste was calling my name. I stopped in regularly asking if he got in any trades, haunted the classifieds here and scoured Craig's List.
Then, it happened. A 2006 Bianchi Veloce. The seller was asking $650 but I got it for $600.
And the difference is clear.
Whereas the Specialized is like a sport luxury model, the Bianchi is a hotrod. Pure adrenaline.
I ride them both, usually taking the Hybrid when riding with my girlfriend on pleasure rides.
And yes, the road bike is faster.:thumb:

jefnvk 05-19-17 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by Darth Lefty (Post 19594461)
The freewheel can't be shimmed properly so it rocks, tick tick tick. Its middle gear is worn, rumble rumble.

So, fix it? Replace the worn components? My C&V bikes are no more or less finnicky than my fiancee's new road bike, and my old Miyata has the smoothest and quietest drivetrain I have ever ridden on. If you are going to compare worn out components, at least compare them to a worn out modern bike too, where I'd actually imagine the friction shifting and looser tolerances actually benefits the older system. Anyone buying used bikes could easily wind up with a worn out dud from either era, but a worn out old bike to a off-the-floor new bike is hardly a fair comparison.


Originally Posted by IamAlan (Post 19594656)
And yes, the road bike is faster.:thumb:

But is it faster than any other road bike you may ride? I think few will argue that a road bike isn't faster than a hybrid, the argument becomes much more nuanced when the question becomes "Is road bike A or B faster?"

fietsbob 05-19-17 08:01 AM

Lay them both against a wall and see which one moves first.

:lol:

jamesdak 05-19-17 08:09 AM

A well maintained old bike like a Paramount is an awesome choice.

As an example is the 1987 Paramount I picked up this winter for within your budget. Upgraded to Dura Ace, a C.F. fork, bars, and seatpost. I swapped on one of my sets of handbuilt wheels and now have a 19 lb steel bike that rivals or beats pretty much anything modern. In fact I posted my only 20 mph avg of the year so far on my 25 mile route with this Paramount.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/165350352.jpg

Honestly with careful shopping you can find one heck of an older ride for well under your budget that will work just fine. Don't believe the hype that only new is best.

Slash5 05-19-17 08:13 AM

This question has come up several times in the C&V forum. When people test this, the more modern bike is slightly faster and the feeling is that it's all due to the brifters.
I think it comes down to - are you interested in vintage? As long as you make an informed purchase of vintage, the value of that bike holds up very well. The new bike you buy will be worth half of what you paid in a few months.
That $1000 will buy you a world class vintage bike - or a lower end mass produced bike.
If you want, the vintage can be upgraded with brifters - depending on what components it has now, it can be done in-expensively.
Remember though, almost any vintage bike you buy will need servicing - if you can't do it yourself, that will be between $100-200. You can mostly count on needing tires and tubes as well.

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...i-s-ergos.html

DomaneS5 05-19-17 08:22 AM

I've had the 2013 Trek 1.1 for 4 years and it's a great bike for $700. I use it now for my rain bike and backup when my Domane is in the shop. I just purchased fenders for it. I've made a few inexpensive modifications and additions over the years... new saddle, tires, bar tape, light mounts, computer, etc. I highly recommend a Trek One Series bike for a first road bike.

HTupolev 05-19-17 12:18 PM


Originally Posted by Slash5 (Post 19594968)
When people test this, the more modern bike is slightly faster and the feeling is that it's all due to the brifters.

Unless maybe if they're racing, that doesn't make much sense to me. In some cases friction levers can mean more time between deciding to shift and making the shift, but that's not a significant issue when you can anticipate.

The aspect where vintage bikes can circumstantially suck the most is gearing range. 40" used to be a common granny gear for "wide-range" 2x drivetrains aimed at "recreational" cyclists, but these days, even pros occasionally tap into lower gears than that. High gears usually lie around 100 inches, which isn't usually quite as harsh of a problem... but it can make it harder to rest on the fast group descents, and I have spun out the back of a paceline before on a 100-inch gear.

Secondly, weight. Not usually an astronomical difference, but a constantly-present and measurable one. Add a few pounds to your bike and do a 1000-foot climb, and you might find it takes a couple tens of seconds longer. Many folks in many circumstances won't care, but it can be relevant on a Strava leaderboard.

jon c. 05-19-17 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by Slash5 (Post 19594968)
That $1000 will buy you a world class vintage bike - or a lower end mass produced bike.

That's my take as well. I'd always go for the higher end used machine.

Faster? As others have said, the difference between bikes in that regard would be close enough to be functionally irrelevant.

philbob57 05-19-17 01:39 PM

IDK ... if your budget tops out at $1,000, putting brifters on a vintage bike seems economically feasible only if you can do the work yourself. You can buy used 130 OLD hubbed-wheels from CL pretty easily, but who knows if they're in decent shape? The rest of the work - cold-setting the frame, probably, buying brifters/derailers/cables/chain will cost a pretty penny for anyone with a tight budget.

That LeMond, though, looks like a great buy. I keep looking at it myself, but the budget isn't there for me. I don't know where Dunning is, fortunately, and I can keep myself from looking it up. If it fits, I think it would be a step up from a $1,000 new bike.

exmechanic89 05-19-17 03:04 PM

Buy the newer bike. For someone with little to no knowledge of cycling, buying an old Paramount - or any vintage bike - is not a good idea, imo. Also as others have said, you need to get yourself in shape, the bike really has very little to do with how fast or far you'll go. Even if you could afford a $10k race bike, you'd still get killed by people on much lesser rides going by what you said in your other thread. Practice makes perfect..


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