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How to Plan Bike Routes

Old 05-25-17, 05:06 AM
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How to Plan Bike Routes

Hi there,

Roughly a year ago I created a bicycle route planning site https://bikeroll.net , already presented to you here. After working one year on it, a lot of improvements were made to the site (many of them thanks to the feedback from bikeforums).

Now, I would like to show you the latest version once more and gather as many feedback and ideas as possible. The goal is make bike route planning easier, simpler, and more efficient.

Why worth using BikeRoll?
1. It is completely free, there are no hidden costs, no different user plans, and no ads.
2. It has a simple, intuitive interface designed to make planning a bike route as easy as possible.
3. It has a suggestive color-coded elevation profile that makes easy to understand how difficult are some parts of the planned routes.
4. The planned routes can be saved and accessed any time.
5. It can be used for real-time tracking on smartphones from the browser (no app is required).
6. Instant weather forecast that tells you the forecast on the planned route for a couple of days.
7. It can be used in multiple languages (11 so far).

A short tutorial how to use BikeRoll can be found here.

Any feedback is welcome,
Botond
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Old 05-25-17, 05:42 AM
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I currently use this site for mapping my route: How far did I run? - Create running maps with On The Go Map

It is similar to your site. I don't put in the start and finish on it though, as I like to go to the map and map it myself, choosing perhaps to avoid major roads. I assume your algorithm chooses the shortest route possible.

Another thing with the onthegomap is that it accounts for road closures and will not allow you to map onto closed roads. Not sure if your does.

Finally, the weather feature is nice but not really necessary, IMO.
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Old 05-25-17, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
I currently use this site for mapping my route: How far did I run? - Create running maps with On The Go Map
I did not know this site, it is very nice and similar (as simple) to BikeRoll. I check what nice features I can "steal" from them

Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
It is similar to your site. I don't put in the start and finish on it though, as I like to go to the map and map it myself, choosing perhaps to avoid major roads. I assume your algorithm chooses the shortest route possible.
You are right BikeRoll chooses the shortest route give the bike type (MTB or road bike).

Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
Another thing with the onthegomap is that it accounts for road closures and will not allow you to map onto closed roads. Not sure if your does.
I use the Google Maps service that also accounts for road closure. This actually can be a disadvantage as well when you want to plan a summer route during the winter when the road is closed. But this feature cannot be avoided using the Google service.

Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
Finally, the weather feature is nice but not really necessary, IMO.
Roger that, I guess if too many people will complain about it, I will remove it.
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Old 05-25-17, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexanderLS View Post
Nice site. Some of the buttons didn't seem to do anything.
I guess you are referring to the top right button? You need to enable popups to be able to log in with your Facebook or Google account and use these features. Some browsers disable pop-ups be default, I cannot do much about that :|

Originally Posted by AlexanderLS View Post
Allowing a person to pick which google maps route they use would be nice.
I think I do not understand what do you mean by picking between routes. Choose between what options/alternatives?
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Old 05-25-17, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexanderLS View Post
Google Maps usually can find multiple different routes. The first one in my test search would have me traveling along a busy highway, the second one has me traveling about the same distance on a much more peaceful back road. Distance isn't everything, a shorter ride can be slower/more stressful on a congested street.
I'll check what possibilities does the Google Maps service offer. But this is definitely a good idea .
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Old 05-25-17, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bboti View Post
You are right BikeRoll chooses the shortest route give the bike type (MTB or road bike).
What if you don't want the shortest route?
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Old 05-25-17, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
What if you don't want the shortest route?
BikeRoll (Google Maps) plans the shortest route and you can add mid-points for adjustments (right click).
A planned feature is the route with minimum elevation. If you can think of any other kind of route, please let me know.
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Old 05-25-17, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexanderLS View Post
Google Maps usually can find multiple different routes.
It can also route on "roads" that aren't really roads, at least not anymore, as well as gravel/dirt roads. Unrideable roads are also sometimes selected, as are roads that are private as well as hiking trails. It's worse out west, but I have had things like that happen in the east. Last fall, while planning a trip through New England, GM picked a road that, when viewed on the satellite view, appeared to have been a former logging road that no longer went through. I scrapped it from the plan but did ride by the start of the road to find a giant "Road Closed" sign. Anyone using GM for bike routes would be wise to do more digging to evaluate the suitability of a route.
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Old 05-25-17, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bboti View Post
BikeRoll (Google Maps) plans the shortest route and you can add mid-points for adjustments (right click).
A planned feature is the route with minimum elevation. If you can think of any other kind of route, please let me know.
Hill climb routes ... like the one here up Mt Wellington.
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Old 05-25-17, 07:06 AM
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This is neat!
Is it possible to hook this up with Google Traffic and give the rider the option of choosing least traffic over shortest distance?
Similarly, let the rider decide between lowest elevation and shortest distance?
Preference to bike paths where available?
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Old 05-25-17, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Amitoj View Post
Is it possible to hook this up with Google Traffic and give the rider the option of choosing least traffic over shortest distance?
The problem is that Google Maps provides only REAL-TIME traffic data and usually you want you ride in a different time (possibly weekend) that is usually not known. As far as I know, there is no Google Traffic service that gives you estimated traffic data in the future. When they introduce it, it will be very useful.

Originally Posted by Amitoj View Post
Similarly, let the rider decide between lowest elevation and shortest distance?
This is the main idea when I was talking about minimum elevation route. So far only shortest distance it available. When this new feature (minimum elevation route) will be ready, the rider can decide which route to choose.

Originally Posted by Amitoj View Post
Preference to bike paths where available?
In the top (middle) you can choose MTB (mountain bike), Road bike, or Google bike (useful only where the Google bike layer is available).
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Old 05-25-17, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bboti View Post
The problem is that Google Maps provides only REAL-TIME traffic data and usually you want you ride in a different time (possibly weekend) that is usually not known. As far as I know, there is no Google Traffic service that gives you estimated traffic data in the future. When they introduce it, it will be very useful.
Google Maps has the option to let you choose what time you want to depart, or arrive. And based on that, it suggests the time it will take taking traffic into consideration. For example, if I am to head to Boston at 4PM vs 1PM, it is able to tell me that 4PM departure will take longer time.

I am not sure if they provide this as a service to other websites though.

Originally Posted by bboti View Post
This is the main idea when I was talking about minimum elevation route. So far only shortest distance it available. When this new feature (minimum elevation route) will be ready, the rider can decide which route to choose.
That'll be awesome! Thanks!

Originally Posted by bboti View Post
In the top (middle) you can choose MTB (mountain bike), Road bike, or Google bike (useful only where the Google bike layer is available).
Ah that's what Google Bike is. Sorry, my bad.
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Old 05-25-17, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Amitoj View Post
Google Maps has the option to let you choose what time you want to depart, or arrive. And based on that, it suggests the time it will take taking traffic into consideration. For example, if I am to head to Boston at 4PM vs 1PM, it is able to tell me that 4PM departure will take longer time.
You are right, it is also available in the Google Maps API. So I guess, the traffic avoidance feature will be added to my TODO list Very good idea.
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Old 05-25-17, 07:30 AM
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I've used paper maps for 50+ years.. Loved visiting the Uni's Map Library.

big panel detailed maps..
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Old 05-25-17, 07:33 AM
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I like the instant elevation profile for route creation where Google Bike isn't available, and the generally pleasant interface, but question the sources of the routes. Shortest distance isn't always the best for bikes, I can punch in a few routes and have it take me on very bike-unfriendly roads. Otherwise if I am using the Google Bike layer, I don't have much of an incentive to go to it instead of Google Bike.

Any way to plug into data sources like Strava heat maps? Also, as others have mentioned, offering multiple routes past just the shortest? Maybe a scenic option? I did a nice ride this past weekend, where just a couple miles more resulted in a breathtaking lakeshore drive, instead of a ride through monotonous farmland that this would route me on.
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Old 05-25-17, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
I like the instant elevation profile for route creation where Google Bike isn't available, and the generally pleasant interface, but question the sources of the routes. Shortest distance isn't always the best for bikes, I can punch in a few routes and have it take me on very bike-unfriendly roads. Otherwise if I am using the Google Bike layer, I don't have much of an incentive to go to it instead of Google Bike.

Any way to plug into data sources like Strava heat maps? Also, as others have mentioned, offering multiple routes past just the shortest? Maybe a scenic option? I did a nice ride this past weekend, where just a couple miles more resulted in a breathtaking lakeshore drive, instead of a ride through monotonous farmland that this would route me on.
It was already suggested that the shortest distance is many times not the best, so I take this advice very seriously and try to improve BikeRoll here.

On the other hand the Google Bike layer is not available in many countries (e.g., in Eastern Europe when I am from), thus, really nobody relays on it when planning bike routes. So (for them/me) BikeRoll is not less than Google Maps with the Bike layer but is a bit more with e.g., the elevation profile, savable routes, or weather forecast
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Old 05-25-17, 07:55 AM
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I currently use a combination of Ride with GPS and Google Maps to plan my routes. In fact, I'm doing that right this minute ... trying to finalise a 400 km route.

I like the two of them because Ride with GPS provides an elevation profile, cue sheet, and I can save the rides ... and Google Maps allows me more experimentation.

So I put in two points in Google Maps and have a look at the elevation, then I use Street View to check the condition of the roads and to check for signs and confusing corners.

If I like that segment, I'll map it in Ride with GPS.


I wish for 2 things while I'm doing this:

1) I would like to be able to see if a road is gravel or paved when I look at the map, without having to zoom in on Street View.

2) I would like to be able to hook Ride with GPS up to Strava. Now, as it happens, my wish may have been granted with this one based on a discussion in another forum. There might be an add-on that lets me do that.
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Old 05-25-17, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
I like the two of them because Ride with GPS provides an elevation profile, cue sheet, and I can save the rides ... and Google Maps allows me more experimentation.
Some kind of cue sheet is also available on BikeRoll if you go to the top left menu and select the Download PDF Summary. It is not an online solution but my impression was that these cue sheets are rather used when riding. And you routes can also be saved here.

Originally Posted by Machka View Post
1) I would like to be able to see if a road is gravel or paved when I look at the map, without having to zoom in on Street View.
I felt the need of this feature many times but so far could not find a service that tell me the quality of the road. I can promise I will keep looking.

Originally Posted by Machka View Post
2) I would like to be able to hook Ride with GPS up to Strava. Now, as it happens, my wish may have been granted with this one based on a discussion in another forum. There might be an add-on that lets me do that.
If you cannot point me to the respective discussion, I think I cannot five you any useful input on this one :|
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Old 05-25-17, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bboti View Post
Some kind of cue sheet is also available on BikeRoll if you go to the top left menu and select the Download PDF Summary. It is not an online solution but my impression was that these cue sheets are rather used when riding. And you routes can also be saved here.



I felt the need of this feature many times but so far could not find a service that tell me the quality of the road. I can promise I will keep looking.



If you cannot point me to the respective discussion, I think I cannot five you any useful input on this one :|
This was that discussion: http://www.bikeforums.net/long-dista...s-brevets.html

The only way I have been able to determine road surface is by using paper maps or Street View.

And, as you may be able to determine from the discussion I linked to, I am a paper cue sheet user. I like that I can copy and paste the Ride with GPS cue sheet into Excel and then format as desired and I like that I can create a pdf of my desired cue sheet. I also like that I can add all sorts of extra notes into the Ride with GPS cue sheet which I am doing right now ... things like "CAUTION: Wooden bridge - dismount to cross" and stuff like that.

There are others, on the other hand, who like to use other methods of determining where they are going.
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Old 05-25-17, 10:02 AM
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Useful site, thanks!
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Old 05-25-17, 02:19 PM
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I like it. I couldn't seem to change it from KM to Mi.

Also maybe auto select routes that are all downhill with the wind at your back.
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Old 05-26-17, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
I also like that I can add all sorts of extra notes into the Ride with GPS cue sheet which I am doing right now ... things like "CAUTION: Wooden bridge - dismount to cross" and stuff like that.
I guess, I will also add this feature of adding notes to the route. Very good idea
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Old 05-26-17, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bscarpenter View Post
I like it. I couldn't seem to change it from KM to Mi.
It should be set in the top right menu (Preferences). You have to be logged in (with Facebook or Google) to access this feature since later when you return to the site, your metric system will be remembered.
If it is not working, maybe try to refresh the site, otherwise it is a bug that I have to fix somehow.

Originally Posted by bscarpenter View Post
Also maybe auto select routes that are all downhill with the wind at your back.
It seems that we should have the following route types: (1) shortest, (2) minimum elevation, (3) most downhill, (4) minimum traffic.
Very good idea.
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Old 05-26-17, 04:49 AM
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I found the popup to "share my location" that repeatedly came back and back and back and back.... to be quite annoying. Ask once, then accept the answer. The program doesn't really need my location.

I tried a couple of routes. It needs to weight the use of secondary roads a little higher. Or at least give the option to choose secondary roads even if they may add a little distance & elevation. Perhaps build alternative routes, and let the user select the preferred route. Yes, one can manually select some of the roads, but that is what the route builder is supposed to do for one.

Drag and drop to select routes is common on other programs.

On a route from McKenzie Bridge, Oregon, USA to Sisters, Oregon, USA, it defaults to skip HWY 242, and it is exceedingly difficult to force it to take HWY 242. The road may be technically closed this time of year (opens mid July, I think), but a few good sunny days, and one should be able to get through... maybe. The other thing is that one often plans ahead on route choices, so seasonal routes may still be appropriate.

I didn't try it on the cell phone yet, but the primary reason to use a route planning program would be to have GPS route tracking.
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Old 05-26-17, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bboti View Post
It seems that we should have the following route types: (1) shortest, (2) minimum elevation, (3) most downhill, (4) minimum traffic.
Very good idea.
If you're going to include stuff about elevation, why not simply tell people what climb number each route option is?

What I mean by that is this ...

A route that has 400 metres of climbing over 40 km is a 1.
400 metres of climbing/40,000 metres of distance = 0.01 * 100 = 1

A route that has 400 metres of climbing over 80 km is a 0.5
400 metres of climbing/80,000 metres of distance = 0.005 * 100 = 0.5

A route that has 400 metres of climbing over 20 km is a 2
400 metres of climbing/20,000 metres of distance = 0.02 * 100 = 2


When a route is a 1 or less, it's pretty flat. There will, of course, be hills, but it's entirely doable within the 15 km/h randonneuring time limit. And if it is less than 0.5, it's really flat.

I've been improving my climbing skills so I can now manage 1.1 rides within the randonneuring time limit ... possibly even 1.2 rides.

Over that, it starts to get tough ... and when the ride gets over 1.5, it's getting quite difficult.


So when I'm planning a route in Ride with GPS, I'm looking at the elevation and doing the calculations to determine if the ride I'm planning is doable as a randonneur ride ... or if it is something with a whole lot more climbing which I might want to do recreationally with no time limits.
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