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Bonked

Old 06-06-17, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
Bonking is Low Blood Sugar in your Brain.
It can occur anytime the Sugar level goes Down
Correct, which is about an hour for novice riders and 1.5 hours for experienced riders (moderate exertion, no sugar intake).
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Old 06-06-17, 01:50 PM
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I don't think bonking is actual hypoglycemia. It's fuel stores running low, which is a different beast and can be accompanied by a mildly low blood sugar. I've bonked and I've had more incidences of hypoglycemia I can count and I can still move quite swiftly even with critically low blood sugar (my record is when I was still running fast with a BG of 32mg/dl. Only noticed when all the street lights started having a black center and white halo) but I will use any excuse possible to stop when I bonk.

Also, a healthy non drunk person can't really get badly hypoglycemic. The body has pretty good systems to prevent that from happening, 'cause it's life threatening and all that
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Old 06-06-17, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
I don't think bonking is actual hypoglycemia. It's fuel stores running low, which is a different beast and can be accompanied by a mildly low blood sugar. I've bonked and I've had more incidences of hypoglycemia I can count and I can still move quite swiftly even with critically low blood sugar (my record is when I was still running fast with a BG of 32mg/dl. Only noticed when all the street lights started having a black center and white halo) but I will use any excuse possible to stop when I bonk.

Also, a healthy non drunk person can't really get badly hypoglycemic. The body has pretty good systems to prevent that from happening, 'cause it's life threatening and all that
Bonking is by definition hypoglycemia. A healthy non-drunk person can become hypoglycemic from prolonged exercise.
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Old 06-06-17, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by memebag
Your diet off the bike can give you 90 minutes of glycogen. That's all the long term energy you can take with you, and just about any diet will do that. After that you need sugar consumed on the bike. And we are just like hummingbirds that way. Sugar transfers energy to our muscles.

Humans break down different sugars and carbohydrates at different rates, at different efficiencies. The fastest and most efficient is glucose. You can consume less of it than the others and use that energy more rapidly. It's easier to auto-titrate or self regulate because the feedback loop is shorter.

I don't understand the opposition to simple sugars while biking.
Okay, with those specifics I don't disagree, especially if we're talking high effort cycling.

I just wanted to clarify that for most folks if they're bonking from hypoglycemia routinely on shorter rides or low effort long, leisurely rides, something's wrong and they should get a medical checkup and watch their diets.
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Old 06-06-17, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by memebag
How long do you ride? Bonking is really only a problem for novice riders around 1 hour, experienced riders around 1.5 hours.
I'm a novice. Only bonking I can recall is long after the ride--I might need a nap before dinner, after say an afternoon 30 miles ride. I've put on a few hundred miles this year and now seem past that issue, although as I settle into things I've noticed I get tired rather than hungry. It's weird; in the evening I'll have a glass of wine and it tends to wake me up.

I think a coworker bonk'd on a ride. He was trying out the South Beach diet, and attempted a 60+ mile ride, like a week after starting. I heard it was a dismal effort (from the other riders).
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Old 06-06-17, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by supton
I'm a novice. Only bonking I can recall is long after the ride--I might need a nap before dinner, after say an afternoon 30 miles ride.
I'm not sure that's bonking. When it happened to me I was disoriented and couldn't think straight. You might just need a nap. Naps won't replenish blood sugar.
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Old 06-06-17, 03:10 PM
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Weird. After 8 hours of staring at a computer at work, I can't think straight either. Had that happen while babysitting kids too. Maybe I can get the wife and boss to let me use beer to bolster my blood sugar levels? For medical purposes, mind you.
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Old 06-06-17, 07:29 PM
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bscarpenter,

I'm going to break from the norm here and suggest to talk to your doctor and tell the doctor what you're up to. Ask your doctor who you can talk to to get GOOD advice for riding at your age, assuming they aren't an endurance athlete themselves.

I'm 59 and I've noticed a LOT of physiological changes in the last 10 years, and they aren't all on the positive side so I have to work around them. Mostly it's I can't go as hard as long as I used to. Granted, I'm a good measure older than you but since you're starting from ground zero and working up the mileage for the last 4 months, it's a good idea to get the right advice from somebody who is familiar with you and your health.
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Old 06-06-17, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by supton
I dunno, when I eat according to my appetite, I tend to put on weight. Other times I know I must force myself to drink water, I might not be thirsty but I know I'm dehydrated.

It's a weird thing, sometimes the mind needs to take control over what the body "thinks" it needs. Furthermore, I'm not sure evolution could have predicted the subsidies given to the food industry (nor could it predict that we'll all have couches and TV's someday).
^I agree with all of this. As I said earlier, maybe a take an energy bar with you and some water. I really do think your newness is part of your issue, OP. Keep riding and I bet you'll adjust and reach your goals.
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Old 06-06-17, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by memebag
Bonking is by definition hypoglycemia. A healthy non-drunk person can become hypoglycemic from prolonged exercise.
I tried searching info about this and nowhere I could find was there a suggestion that a healthy person can achieve hypoglycemia. It can happen to people with some sort of disorder with their hormone exchange, or of course diabetics, but I'd wager it'd be extremely difficult for a healthy person to achieve more than a very mild hypoglycemia even with extreme glycogen depletion. And that is what we're actually talking about, glycogen depletion, as in you run out of it and need to start using fat as a primary fuel source. Now it should be clear that if you've been going at a pace where you burn 50-99% of your energy needs as glucose and suddenly run out and need to start using fat, you're going to have a bad time.

It's close to what some people starting a keto diet experience to achieve ketosis. When their glycogen stores deplete they don't go to a 24/7 hypoglycemia, they just feel bad because they aren't used to burning fat at the extent they are required to. Actually the body won't let you be hypoglycemic for long as it causes brain damage in the long term.

So while both conditions, hypoglycemia and glycogen depletion share symptoms they are different things. Hypoglycemia refers to blood glucose levels which are quite stringently regulated by the body, whereas glycogen depletion refers to depleted glycogen stores within the body and is not stringently controlled since the body can't magic high amounts of glycogen from thin air. Although the body will do quite a bit to maintain blood glucose levels, break up proteinfor example.

And as a personal anecdote, again having experienced both, glycogen depletion makes you feel like a worm because you simply don't have the fuel to move yourself anymore, whereas hypoglycemia can make you feel like a god (albeit, a very angry god because irritability etc), because your brain isn't working properly and the part controlling tiredness in particular isn't working and thus you run or cycle to a near death condition where you suddenly drop when the blood glucose drops enough to start affecting lucidity
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Old 06-07-17, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
I tried searching info about this and nowhere I could find was there a suggestion that a healthy person can achieve hypoglycemia. It can happen to people with some sort of disorder with their hormone exchange, or of course diabetics, but I'd wager it'd be extremely difficult for a healthy person to achieve more than a very mild hypoglycemia even with extreme glycogen depletion. And that is what we're actually talking about, glycogen depletion, as in you run out of it and need to start using fat as a primary fuel source. Now it should be clear that if you've been going at a pace where you burn 50-99% of your energy needs as glucose and suddenly run out and need to start using fat, you're going to have a bad time.

It's close to what some people starting a keto diet experience to achieve ketosis. When their glycogen stores deplete they don't go to a 24/7 hypoglycemia, they just feel bad because they aren't used to burning fat at the extent they are required to. Actually the body won't let you be hypoglycemic for long as it causes brain damage in the long term.

So while both conditions, hypoglycemia and glycogen depletion share symptoms they are different things. Hypoglycemia refers to blood glucose levels which are quite stringently regulated by the body, whereas glycogen depletion refers to depleted glycogen stores within the body and is not stringently controlled since the body can't magic high amounts of glycogen from thin air. Although the body will do quite a bit to maintain blood glucose levels, break up proteinfor example.

And as a personal anecdote, again having experienced both, glycogen depletion makes you feel like a worm because you simply don't have the fuel to move yourself anymore, whereas hypoglycemia can make you feel like a god (albeit, a very angry god because irritability etc), because your brain isn't working properly and the part controlling tiredness in particular isn't working and thus you run or cycle to a near death condition where you suddenly drop when the blood glucose drops enough to start affecting lucidity
Search harder. A healthy person can become hypoglycemic with as little as one hour of moderate exercise.

Exercise-Induced Non-Diabetic Hypoglycemia | LIVESTRONG.COM

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11353874

Everything You Need to Know About Glycogen | Bicycling
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Old 06-07-17, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by memebag
Correct, which is about an hour for novice riders and 1.5 hours for experienced riders (moderate exertion, no sugar intake).
Unless we are defining moderate differently(Z2/Z3) just about any decently trained cyclist should be able to ride at least 3 hours on no fuel.
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Old 06-07-17, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
Unless we are defining moderate differently(Z2/Z3) just about any decently trained cyclist should be able to ride at least 3 hours on no fuel.
Doctors say otherwise. I'm going by what they say.
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Old 06-07-17, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by memebag
Doctors say otherwise. I'm going by what they say.
Huh? That Z2/Z3 isn't moderate?
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Old 06-07-17, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
Huh? That Z2/Z3 isn't moderate?
Doctors say 90 minutes of glycogen for moderate exercise at most.
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Old 06-07-17, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by memebag
Doctors say 90 minutes of glycogen for moderate exercise at most.
that is an extremely conservative number. Real research shows trained cyclists at 70% v02max do not show any difference in under 3 hours with/without carbohydrate consumption. Blood glucose levels do not get low until 3 h. ARTICLES | Journal of Applied Physiology
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Old 06-07-17, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
that is an extremely conservative number. Real research shows trained cyclists at 70% v02max do not show any difference in under 3 hours with/without carbohydrate consumption. Blood glucose levels do not get low until 3 h. ARTICLES | Journal of Applied Physiology
Knock yourself out. I am not a doctor.
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Old 06-07-17, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by memebag
Knock yourself out. I am not a doctor.
He just plays one on the internet...
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Old 06-07-17, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by memebag
Knock yourself out. I am not a doctor.
thats fine, just don't continue to regurgitate information you do not understand
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Old 06-07-17, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
thats fine, just don't continue to regurgitate information you do not understand
I post information from doctors. Which part didn't I understand?
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Old 06-07-17, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by memebag
I post information from doctors. Which part didn't I understand?
doctors do not tell you the whole truth, because you don't want to go through the trouble of finding out for yourself
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Old 06-07-17, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
doctors do not tell you the whole truth, because you don't want to go through the trouble of finding out for yourself
Who tells me the whole truth if not doctors?
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Old 06-07-17, 10:57 AM
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When I first started riding, I would get those sugar shakes, feel hangry and/or tired after a ride. So I did what most here say and added some form of carbohydrate until I didn't. The problem is, my weight went up, my blood sugar went up, other minor issues ensued, etc.

More recently, I've gone the opposite way. I follow a keto diet meaning low carb, high fat, moderate protein. At first, it sucked riding the bike like that. But over time, I've built myself back up and got my body more efficient at using fat for fuel during exercise instead of sugar. Last Sunday, I did a 40 mile ride with 1082ft of climb at 14.2 mph in a little under 3 hours. This was a moderately easy ride for me, but I didn't eat anything before or during the ride. And only had maybe a 1/3 of one water bottle during. The power meter said my average power was 161, weighed average was 191, whatever that means and burned 1,838 calories during.

Afterward, I wasn't hangry or ravenous or even tired. Just had a normal day following it. Also, I've lost about 32 lbs in the process of moving to the keto eating style and my energy levels have really normalized. It takes more time to acclimate yourself to that paradigm, but I think it is worth it to get off the sugar merry-go-round when cycling. Not to mention is has a lot of health benefits.
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Old 06-07-17, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2
When I first started riding, I would get those sugar shakes, feel hangry and/or tired after a ride. So I did what most here say and added some form of carbohydrate until I didn't. The problem is, my weight went up, my blood sugar went up, other minor issues ensued, etc.

More recently, I've gone the opposite way. I follow a keto diet meaning low carb, high fat, moderate protein. At first, it sucked riding the bike like that. But over time, I've built myself back up and got my body more efficient at using fat for fuel during exercise instead of sugar. Last Sunday, I did a 40 mile ride with 1082ft of climb at 14.2 mph in a little under 3 hours. This was a moderately easy ride for me, but I didn't eat anything before or during the ride. And only had maybe a 1/3 of one water bottle during. The power meter said my average power was 161, weighed average was 191, whatever that means and burned 1,838 calories during.

Afterward, I wasn't hangry or ravenous or even tired. Just had a normal day following it. Also, I've lost about 32 lbs in the process of moving to the keto eating style and my energy levels have really normalized. It takes more time to acclimate yourself to that paradigm, but I think it is worth it to get off the sugar merry-go-round when cycling. Not to mention is has a lot of health benefits.
Since you are using a power meter what is your FTP and what was your zone distribution for that ride?
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Old 06-07-17, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by memebag
Who tells me the whole truth if not doctors?
You mean like other doctors who actually specialize in the subject? If you expect to get the whole truth from a blurb on the internet written by a doctor, and stick your head in the sand when presented with new data, then you are in for a harsh reality, or i supposed you can choose to remain blissfully ignorant as well.
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