Zoroman

Why is sugar water SO important??? That is my question. Most human beings have gotten along fine without it, so why is suddenly viewed as SO important?


From the perspective of how long "sugar water" has been viewed as SO important to humans doing work (and humans have been working for thousands of years) --how long has this this so important sugar water belief been held??? And why?

memebag

I drink sugar water to provide energy while I bike. I bike long distances at fairly high speeds. I don't know what humans did for thousands of years under similar circumstances, but sugar water works. It doesn't make me fat, it doesn't give me cancer, it just supplies sugar to my muscles and brain in a way that's easy to control.

Wheever

Same here. I can't eat before a ride. But, also, in general, I really only eat one meal a day.

All of my long rides are done on an empty stomach, and unless it's going to be longer than 50 miles, I don't usually bother eating energy gels or whatever. (I'll have them with me in case I need them, though.) When I do eat a gel, it often surprises me how much more energy I'll have at the end of the ride than if I don't, tell myself to eat them more often...but never do. Lol.

So yes, everyone's metabolism is different!

redlude97

That attributing that to keto isn't really the truth. I can do 40-50 miles with my GF at similar intensities on no food as well, usually fasted.

Jarrett2

It's possible my settings aren't accurate and are not showing the real picture with my zones as I was not able to do the same ride fasted before going in keto adaptation. As mentioned, the 19.5 mph showed similar zone breakouts and I know it wasn't an easy ride.

I do think its worth getting off sugar for cycling, but really its more important to get off of it for overall health and well being, which as I've stated a few times now, is my primary goal. If you want to convince folks they need to eat sugar to ride a bike, I guess that's your prerogative, but I've proven that it isn't the case to myself.

redlude97

Quite the opposite actually, in general for endurance levels of output and moderate times, way less food is necessary than is usually prescribed, but ketogenesis isn't a requirement

gregf83 

You seem as invested in this issue as anyone. Why are you spending so much energy?

Others are just pointing out that your 90 min figure is incorrect for fit cyclists. No question that carbs are necessary for prolonged effort but many riders have no problem going for 3-4 hrs without anything other than water while riding. Last weekend I rode with a buddy for 125km. I had a latte and my friend black coffee. We both good at the end of the ride. I don't think that's unusual.

You have about 2000 Cals of stored glycogen in your muscles, liver and blood. Riding at a moderate intensity shouldn't use more tha 500 Cal's/hr of glycogen so you should be able to last 4 hrs. Those who've been riding a decent amount use a higher ratio of fat and need less glycogen. Even if you were riding flat out with 100% of your energy coming from glycogen you'd still likely have enough energy stores to go for a couple of hours, assuming you can output 280W for 2 hrs.

hueyhoolihan

IME, that's about right. without eating anything before a ride, which i do quite often, i'm good for a couple of hours before i start paying the price.

BTW, i had to laugh at a recent post (not the owner of the one i quoted) that read simply, 'What's my point?".

redlude97

Do not mistake incredulousness with anger. It is like arguing with an antivaxxer or trumpster, facts that do not fit their opinion are alternative facts.

1. Something repeated on the internet is not a fact, no matter how many times it is stated. Provide a peer review source and we can discuss further.

2. You keep getting hung up on this point, when the emphasis from the beginning was under 3 hours there was no difference, but it doesn't really matter in proving that you were wrong, because neither group was exhausted at 90 mins. There is no way to deduce an average of 90 mins to complete glycogen completion at 90 mins from the data.

3. Why it is important, and why we keep sticking to this point, is the huge difference between glycogen depletion at 90 mins vs 180 mins at an endurance pace for an average rider. An average rider rides under 50 miles at a time at a pace ~15mph ie ~ 3 hours. This is a B/C level ride. Many do it to lose weight and be healthier. Based on a 90 min glycogen depletion, then this average rider would have to consume a bunch of carbs to even finish the ride, whereas if the limit is 3 hours, they probably don't need anything at all during the ride other than water. If they are consuming gels/gatorade etc with this mistaken idea that they are glycogen deprived at 90 mins then they wasted a bunch of their effort by consuming a bunch of extra extraneous calories.

redlude97

I do that same... when riding hard. When I did a 1 day STP i think I ate 6 gels and 3 packs of shotblocks in addition to other food and clifbars. No doubt carbohydrate and sugar consumption during certain types of rides can provide a performance boost by providing an additional glycogen source.

nycphotography

^ actually at endurance pace there is no glygocen depletion because you are literally burning just fat.

Today, after work, we did a little out and back and then I rode home. Mine was 63.5 miles in 3h 45m, 1938kj. Oh and no bottles. Zero. Seems I forgot them at home this morning, so I just went with nothing. No sugar. No gels. No water.

Zones say "extreme suffer score" 152.
Z1 Active Recovery 1 - 143 W 1:53:47 49%
Z2 Endurance 144 - 195 W 32:25 14%
Z3 Tempo 196 - 234 W 28:37 12%
Z4 Threshold 235 - 273 W 28:41 12%
Z5 VO2Max 274 - 312 W 15:12 7%
Z6 Anaerobic 313 - 390 W 8:25 4%
Z7 Neuromuscular 390+ W 4:43 2%

I spent a lot of time Z4 and higher. Like 25%.

Yet, against all odds I didn't bonk. How is that possible?

redlude97

That's not true. Not even at Z1 is that true.

elcruxio

It's as if you didn't even read my response post, and I am assuming you didn't. Please do and also read the point where I concede that exercise can cause mild hypoglycemia in some individuals.

As to your quotes from the livestrong article

"...cause you to experience symptoms of hypoglycemia."
Symptommmmsss! Not the same deal as the real thing.
In context this quote also pertains to, again, glycogen depletion, which is different from hypoglycemia.

"An unfit person consuming 45 percent of her calories from carbohydrates, stores 100 grams of glycogen in her liver. At a moderate exercise pace, you burn 1 gram of glucose per minute and would theoretically completely diminish your glycogen stores after 1 hour and 45 minutes of exercise"

I actually missed this untruth previously but thanks for pointing it out. I wonder if this is where you get that 90 minute thing from. What this quote fails to take into account is that most of you glycogen is stored in the muscles and the liver only has a small portion of it. Also, this again refers to glycogen depletion, which is different from hypoglycemia.

I think I need to spell this out for you.
Hypoglycemia refers to a condition where blood glucose levels drop under a certain point. I'm actually experiencing such an occurrence at the moment of writing. So we're talking about glucose, in the blood.

Glycogen depletion means that you run out of glycogen stores. Glycogen levels are the amount of the stuff you have in your body, stored in muscles and liver, not the blood. You still with me? Body =/= blood. Ok, so while glycogen depletion can lead to a temporarily lowered blood glucose level in the blood, the body has ways of counteracting this, such as catabolization of muscle tissue, converting protein into glucose, etc. When you run out of glycogen, the body doesn't simply strip the blood of glucose and kill you, it burns fat instead. Because the body has, you know, a tendency to want to keep living and stuff. If you're not accustomed to fat burning, you're going to have a bad time.

Also, as I've mentioned before from personal experience, glycogen depletion makes you weak. Even a severe episode of hypoglycemia does not necessarily make you weak since the effect is primarily felt in the brain and not the muscles which still have glycogen stores.

For further reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia

Try to use wikipedia instead of Livestrong. That livestrong article you linked was hilarious but also a bit worrying that such bull is being circulated in the web with a guise of healthy living.

Why sugar water is important? It simply is not. Pro cyclists mainly eat regular food when they train and primarily use gels / sports drinks when racing.

PanoramicPixel

I only bonked once so far in my few years of cycling. I bike everyday to and from work and for whatever reason I really slacked on eating carbs for the last few days. I always heard of bonking and how all you can think about is scarfing down some chocolate bars. Thought "Isn't that just normal fatigue mixed with hunger?" Boy was I wrong. Was climbing up a big hill on the way home, and I just started thinking about all kinds of tasty carbs like noodles, sweet potatoes, cherries, dates, then raisins ... As my body wobbled and I felt the strongest fatigue than ever before. I shambled home on my bike with my mind screaming to eat the raisins I had in the cupboard at home. Ate half the large container when I arrived. Felt like the most satisfying meal.

Never have I craved anything with such fervor in my life.

luddite_68

This place is great. Everyone who has contributed to this thread has provided valuable information (much of it over my head). I have had a week of flooding rain here in South Florida, so I've been sidelined this week, but will pick up again this weekend. I will try some low cal gatorade in mixed in my water and bring 120cal bar to eat 1/2 way through my ride and see how I do. Thanks again.

Zoroman

The simple answer is: It is NOT possible. Everyone now knows you must have sugar water. Sugar water or DIE. Yes DIE! And you need to have a bag of food strapped around your neck, preferably fashioned with straps to hang off your ears so the bag is positioned at mouth level and all you need to do is open mouth and begin to consume, eat, consume, eat. Or die. That food must be high in above all else yup you guessed it: sugar. Why? Because, silly, sugar is what you need and all you need. Say it: sugar sugar sugar sugar, sweet sugar darling, sugar oh sugar oh sugar of mine!


See?

canklecat

Yup. I had hopes for Livestrong being a source of valid info for active folks, but it's just a little woo shy of David "Avocado" Wolfe and Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop and storing odd things in her hoo-hah. I know a writer who worked for Livestrong for awhile. She wasn't hired for her expertise in sports, nutrition or medicine. She was hired because she's a popular and funny pop culture blogger who happened to live in Austin. Fortunately she's also a pragmatist and I think she soon realized she and Livestrong were gonna have a bad time.

indyfabz

I am taking the GF out to dinner in a bit. Hope I don't bonk before we are served food. My guess is that she will have the lamb chops.

Zoroman

Love IT!!!

Zoroman

Well you know the cure: sugar water and feed bag. You can BOTH have it "on" you while you drive to the restaurant and even while the car is parked and while waiting to be seated. I am confident they won't mind at all ----

Jarrett2

On the bike is the only place I've ever had that happen. Where random pictures of foods came into my mind. Really weird sensation. That stopped once I became fat adapted though.

10 Wheels

I bonked grocery shopping.

Milton Keynes

I wouldn't even consider myself a "fit" cyclist (about 30-40 lbs overweight) and I've managed to go hours on the bike without eating anything, only taking in water. I know I've gone for more than 90 minutes at a time. Of course I'm not doing high intensity riding but just at my normal pace. So I guess I didn't know I needed to constantly eat on a bike ride until I read this thread. I don't know how I've managed to never bonk before.

indyfabz

We are taking the trolley up to my old 'hood. After dinner, I am going to show her the house I grew up in. It should be a nice evening.


I bought a car at the beginning of last July. It almost has 2,600 miles on it.

Zoroman

Well, on the Trolley then. Feed bag! And be sure to alternate between sugar water and feed bag and to be safe bring two bottle each, sugar water; plain water won't do... Otherwise it sounds like a loving evening sharing your childhood life with her. That is intensely wonderful stuff and hopefully you can have a laugh about the silly forum posts today on the topic (biking) that is also near and dear to your heart!