Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Please explain why road bikes don't have disc brakes

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Please explain why road bikes don't have disc brakes

Reply

Old 06-07-17, 12:23 PM
  #51  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 636 Post(s)
Eventually all good road bikes will have disc brakes. Caliper brakes will be probably remain on entry level road bikes.

The transition is already happening with the big 3 and everyone else will soon follow. It only makes sense due to their superior performance.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bi...-advanced-disc

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-defy-advanced

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/me...mp-disc/118207

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/me...ultegra/118388

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/me...x-elite/115487

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/me...erge-a1/118415

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...sequoia/116171

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...crux-e5/115138

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...colorCode=grey

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...?colorCode=red
prj71 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 12:58 PM
  #52  
corrado33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bozeman
Posts: 4,135

Bikes: 199? Landshark Roadshark, 198? Mondonico Diamond, 1987 Panasonic DX-5000, 1987 Bianchi Limited, Univega... Chrome..., 1989 Schwinn Woodlands, Motobecane USA Record, Raleigh Tokul 2

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1118 Post(s)
Good job picking out all of the "disc" versions of those bikes. All the caliper brake versions exist as well, lest we not forget.

The one I bothered to look up.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/me...duraace/128538
corrado33 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 01:20 PM
  #53  
Dave Mayer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,534
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 416 Post(s)
So I've been watching the Dauphine race. And I watched the Tour of California. You would think that the elite-level pros would take every possible advantage on their bikes, but alas: nobody is on discs.

Not even on the sprinter stages. At the minimum, you'd expect the bike vendors to be showcasing their new disc wares on the pancake-flat stages. On the mountain stages, discs would present an insurmountable weight penalty/disadvantage, and expose embarrassing performance gaps.

And despite what must be intense pressure from component manufacturers and bike brands, the rider favored to win the upcoming Tour de France: Nairo Quintana comes out with the condemnation of discs saying that they are unnecessary, heavier, less aero, and dangerous. Tsk tsk: Nairo: get with the program. The pro tour and its riders exist to sell stuff, such as the latest and greatest bike bling to dentists/lawyers. Remember who feeds you.

I admit, that discs enable carbon clinchers. It removes the heat dissipation and the some of the structural integrity issues that are inherent disadvantages of clinchers.

But since the pros are not on clinchers, and never will be, this is a moot issue. Tubular rims practically overcome these problems. Plus save 100 grams per rim - an insurmountable advantage.

So to recap: road discs only make sense on dentist/lawyer bikes. This is the most attractive market for the industry, with the highest profit margin and best aftermarket service potential. You want customers whose response to every bike issue is to pull out the Gold Card. Folks who are willing to pay $500 for a 'bike fit', who don't even think about paying triple mail-order for parts and accessories, and are willing to pay $100 quarterly for a 5-minute derailleur adjustment. And in the end, are willing to drop at least $5k every few years on the latest bling bike trend.
Dave Mayer is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 01:31 PM
  #54  
LesterOfPuppets
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rock Springs, WY
Posts: 30,717

Bikes: everywhere

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2809 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Not even on the sprinter stages. At the minimum, you'd expect the bike vendors to be showcasing their new disc wares on the pancake-flat stages. On the mountain stages, discs would present an insurmountable weight penalty/disadvantage, and expose embarrassing performance gaps.
I don't think that's true. Disc road bikes have been built that are below the UCI weight restriction, so I imagine pro teams would run disc bikes right at the limit. There is talk about lowering the limit, so at that point there might need to be some work done lightening the bikes.
LesterOfPuppets is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 02:38 PM
  #55  
LesterOfPuppets
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rock Springs, WY
Posts: 30,717

Bikes: everywhere

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2809 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Mark42 View Post
The reason I ask is because after looking at lots of alloy and carbon road frames on alibaba/aliexpress, noticed that no road bikes had IS or PM caliper mounts on the chain/seat stay. All were setup for V brake.
Here's one. I'm sure there are others.

https://hongfu-bikes.en.alibaba.com/..._HF_FM079.html
LesterOfPuppets is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 03:05 PM
  #56  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 36,045

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4317 Post(s)
Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
In addition to the easier setup for assemblers, V-brakes also made manufacturers' lives easier by eliminating two cable stops per bike. Total win-win for bike makers.
One of the killers for traditional canti's in OEM was the issue of legal liability.

There were a number of serious injuries caused by cables either breaking, or simple disengaging from the hanger.

That allowed the yoke cable to snag the front wheel, locking it and putting the rider over the bars. A number of suits based on this type of accident resulted in large settlements, so there was a drive to find an alternative design.

FWIW - this safety issue related to cantis resulted to a European mandate to install a "safety stick" above the front wheel to catch the yoke if the main cable broke. Unfortunately, until the advent of mtn bikes in the USA, our experience with cantis was more limited and we had no safety stick requirement.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 03:44 PM
  #57  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 8,921

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3947 Post(s)
Discs aren't any advantage on the flat in thedry. Muontain stages are the only place they would really offer much benefit ... and frankly, for most riders, skill and lack of imagination .... called "bravery" ... is what determines how fast they descend.
Maelochs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 05:16 PM
  #58  
hueyhoolihan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Above ground, Walnut Creek, Ca
Posts: 6,689

Bikes: 8 ss bikes, 1 5-speed touring bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
mtbs and road bike braking requirements WRT safety and performance vary quite a bit.
hueyhoolihan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 05:59 PM
  #59  
Currmudge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Because disc brakes are heavier, uglier, less aero, more expensive, more mechanically complicated, and don't stop your bike any faster than calipers in most conditions.
Heavier? Slightly.
Uglier? Only to a priss.
Less aero? REALLY, YOU THINK IT MAKES MORE THAN 1 SECOND IN A 40K TT DIFFERENCE?!??
More expensive? Please.
More mechanically complicated? Not from a user-serviceability standpoint.
Don't stop faster? Dream on.
Currmudge is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 06:05 PM
  #60  
LesterOfPuppets
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rock Springs, WY
Posts: 30,717

Bikes: everywhere

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2809 Post(s)
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
One of the killers for traditional canti's in OEM was the issue of legal liability.

There were a number of serious injuries caused by cables either breaking, or simple disengaging from the hanger.

That allowed the yoke cable to snag the front wheel, locking it and putting the rider over the bars. A number of suits based on this type of accident resulted in large settlements, so there was a drive to find an alternative design.

FWIW - this safety issue related to cantis resulted to a European mandate to install a "safety stick" above the front wheel to catch the yoke if the main cable broke. Unfortunately, until the advent of mtn bikes in the USA, our experience with cantis was more limited and we had no safety stick requirement.
Once upon a time I went to remove the front reflector from my Bridgestone, then I thought about it for a second...

LesterOfPuppets is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 06:15 PM
  #61  
alcjphil
Senior Member
 
alcjphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 2,590
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 400 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Currmudge View Post
Heavier? Slightly.
Uglier? Only to a priss.
Less aero? REALLY, YOU THINK IT MAKES MORE THAN 1 SECOND IN A 40K TT DIFFERENCE?!??

Don't stop faster? Dream on.
Don't forget that at the pro level they sometimes have to add stuff to meet the minimum bike weight requirement. There is no weight penalty to discs at that level
alcjphil is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 06:17 PM
  #62  
caloso
Packfodding 3
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 36,865

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1336 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Currmudge View Post
Heavier? Slightly.
Uglier? Only to a priss.
Less aero? REALLY, YOU THINK IT MAKES MORE THAN 1 SECOND IN A 40K TT DIFFERENCE?!??
More expensive? Please.
More mechanically complicated? Not from a user-serviceability standpoint.
Don't stop faster? Dream on.
4 seconds in a headwind; 10-12 seconds over 40km in a crosswind. Are bikes with disc brakes faster? - Cycling Weekly
caloso is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 06:49 PM
  #63  
coominya
Senior Member
 
coominya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Posts: 1,644

Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 703 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Currmudge View Post
Heavier? Slightly.
Uglier? Only to a priss.
Less aero? REALLY, YOU THINK IT MAKES MORE THAN 1 SECOND IN A 40K TT DIFFERENCE?!??
More expensive? Please.
More mechanically complicated? Not from a user-serviceability standpoint.
Don't stop faster? Dream on.
All true. MTB downhill riders all use them now, that's a sport where you need good reliable braking and minimum weight, and where dropping your bike is a common occurrence. I image there was a whole cadre of road cyclists who turned their noses up at CF when it was introduced too but now they all aspire to have it.

Some people just have to be dragged into the 21st Century.
coominya is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 06:51 PM
  #64  
coominya
Senior Member
 
coominya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Posts: 1,644

Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 703 Post(s)
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
4 seconds in a headwind; 10-12 seconds over 40km in a crosswind. Are bikes with disc brakes faster? - Cycling Weekly
Great article, thanks for posting.
coominya is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 07:36 PM
  #65  
Sangetsu
Senior Member
 
Sangetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: 東京都
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 504 Post(s)
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Because disc brakes are heavier, uglier, less aero, more expensive, more mechanically complicated, and don't stop your bike any faster than calipers in most conditions.
Agreed. But they are "different", and being different is marketable, as Steve Jobs once said.
Sangetsu is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 08:10 PM
  #66  
BlazingPedals
Senior Member
 
BlazingPedals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Posts: 10,355

Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, homebuilt recumbent

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 637 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Currmudge View Post
Uglier? Only to a priss.
I was going to use nicer words. "Uglier" is a subjective evaluation, arrived at because discs don't look match some pre-conceived image. I think they look just fine, more business-like than rim calipers.

edit: My avatar bike was designed for a disc in front. No room for anything else.

BlazingPedals is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-17, 08:21 PM
  #67  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 36,045

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4317 Post(s)
Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
Once upon a time I went to remove the front reflector from my Bridgestone, then I thought about it for a second...
Interestingly, in the one case where I was directly involved as an expert, the bike originally came equipped with a similar reflector bracket, which was the most common version used OEM. Like yours, the bracket would have served as a safety stick and prevented the injury, but unfortunately had either been removed or never installed.

The maker opted not to raise this point in defense because nothing in the literature warned against removing the bracket, and in fact, the company couldn't provide any evidence in their own records that the bracket was intended to serve this purpose.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-17, 05:44 AM
  #68  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 636 Post(s)
Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
Good job picking out all of the "disc" versions of those bikes. All the caliper brake versions exist as well, lest we not forget.

The one I bothered to look up.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/me...duraace/128538
The caliper versions do exist and the disc versions are relatively new. It will be a slow transition for sure but eventually all the more expensive bikes will be disc brakes and the caliper brakes will be reserved for road bikes $1000 or less.
prj71 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-17, 06:30 AM
  #69  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 7,114

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1072 Post(s)
As I have stated in a past thread in only a very few years disc brakes will be standard on better bikes. It will be driven by economies of scale which will make the discs cheaper.
rydabent is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-17, 07:01 AM
  #70  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 8,921

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3947 Post(s)
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
As I have stated in a past thread in only a very few years disc brakes will be standard on better bikes. It will be driven by economies of scale which will make the discs cheaper.
As others have stated in those same threads, your timeline is overly optimistic. All opinions based equally in fact carry equal weight.

We have seen discs' introduction ... but Not wide acceptance on the "better" bikes simply because in their current form, discs are not a significantly "better" braking system.

Figuring that new systems are introduced seasonally, we are at least two seasons---a couple product iterations---from discs which equal rim brakes in every way or are close enough that people will accept either equally.

Heavier and harder to maintain? Not selling points for most people. (And the liars who say they are no harder to maintain ... yeah, because one bolt to change a pad and one bolt to adjust for rim brakes is not any simpler than pressure lines, fluid, and finicky pad adjustment. Because air bubbles in the system happen to rim brakes. Because a lot more moving parts is simpler than fewer. Right. As a person who owns discs and rims ... yeah, whatever.)

I agree with Rydabent that discs will become more popular. Not sure they will become ubiquitous, and certainly not in current forms. And not in three years ... or even five.
Maelochs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-17, 07:45 AM
  #71  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 636 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
discs are not a significantly "better" braking system.
As Trump would say. "Wrong!"

Stopping power and wet weather...Discs are superior.

Within the next 3 years disc brakes on road bikes will be the standard.
prj71 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-17, 07:54 AM
  #72  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 18,010
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5837 Post(s)
And there we have it...Another best braking system cage match.


The OP has done well with this one.
indyfabz is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-17, 08:05 AM
  #73  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 636 Post(s)
Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
Once upon a time I went to remove the front reflector from my Bridgestone, then I thought about it for a second...

Maybe you should remove the bike from the reflector instead.
prj71 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-17, 09:36 AM
  #74  
cthenn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 2,124

Bikes: 2015 Trek Emonda SLR, 2002 Litespeed Classic, 2005 Bianchi Pista, 2016 Devinci Hatchet, Some BikesDirect MTB I never ride.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Originally Posted by prj71 View Post

"within the next 3 years disc brakes on road bikes will be the standard."

As trump would say. "wrong!"
fify
cthenn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-17, 05:55 AM
  #75  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 7,114

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1072 Post(s)
I take issue with the posters here that say disc brakes are harder to adjust and need to be re-adjusted all the time. On my 2012 trike, I doubt that I have had to do any adjusting more than 2 or 3 times in the 5 years I have had it.

Hard?????????? Read and understand how to adjust them, do it right, and they are extremely trouble free. The operative word here is---------------understand----------the adjustments.
rydabent is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Terms of Service