More disc brake vs. rim brake controversy.
07-16-17, 01:21 PM
#26
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Marketing bull****.
Given that disc brakes are more annoying to take care of, (closer tolerances, more susceptible to contamination, rotors need to be kept true, often loud when wet) I'd say they're just trying to make more money. Not to mention bleeding modern hydraulic systems... ugh. (The older ones were easy, push the bubbles out in both directions and you're good... the newer ones though? They're a pain in the ass. Actually "requiring" degassing of the brake fluid for it to work right... really?)
07-16-17, 01:21 PM
#27
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In the case of a really long hill with a stop sign at the bottom.
Disc brakes are absolutely the WRONG choice. Disc brakes overheat and lose braking power over long steep descents where as rim brakes do not. Given ample braking time, rim brakes always come out on top. The only "advantage" discs have is the "modulation" provided by them (and proven wrong by Simon in the video). Modulation only comes into play when you're panic stopping or running at the edge of the grip of the tires.
Disc brakes are absolutely the WRONG choice. Disc brakes overheat and lose braking power over long steep descents where as rim brakes do not. Given ample braking time, rim brakes always come out on top. The only "advantage" discs have is the "modulation" provided by them (and proven wrong by Simon in the video). Modulation only comes into play when you're panic stopping or running at the edge of the grip of the tires.
07-16-17, 01:30 PM
#28
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The main advantages of rim brakes are I don't have to buy new bikes and throw out all my non-disk wheels.
Perhaps the mods could make a rim vs disk brake subforum and let everyone at it Thunderdome style.
Perhaps the mods could make a rim vs disk brake subforum and let everyone at it Thunderdome style.
07-16-17, 01:46 PM
#29
Non omnino gravis
In the case of a really long hill with a stop sign at the bottom.
Disc brakes are absolutely the WRONG choice. Disc brakes overheat and lose braking power over long steep descents where as rim brakes do not. Given ample braking time, rim brakes always come out on top. The only "advantage" discs have is the "modulation" provided by them (and proven wrong by Simon in the video). Modulation only comes into play when you're panic stopping or running at the edge of the grip of the tires.
Disc brakes are absolutely the WRONG choice. Disc brakes overheat and lose braking power over long steep descents where as rim brakes do not. Given ample braking time, rim brakes always come out on top. The only "advantage" discs have is the "modulation" provided by them (and proven wrong by Simon in the video). Modulation only comes into play when you're panic stopping or running at the edge of the grip of the tires.
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07-16-17, 02:10 PM
#30
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GCN tested it again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hKMgUEku4
Conclusions?
In the dry, rim brakes (on carbon rims nonetheless) were marginally faster due to better aero (higher top speed between curves.)
In the wet, disc brakes were better... obviously.
My personal conclusions.
Do you ride in the rain at the edge of grip on carbon rims?
If the answer is yes, then disc brakes could be good for you.
If the answer is (likely) no, rim brakes are actually better for you.
I'd love to see the same test done with aluminum rims (or at least aluminum brake tracks), although I bet the aero or weight penalty would affect the results more.
Someone once asked "why disc brakes aren't on road bikes".
I think the answer is pretty clearly "they barely do crap for normal riding, and most people don't ride in situations where they're useful."
Come on, be honest, when's the last time you purposefully rode in the rain?
Using the argument of "I like disc brakes because occasionally I get caught in the rain" is the same as saying "I put snow tires on my summer convertible car because occasionally we'll have a freak snow storm and I'll get caught in it." (Happens more often than you think here in Bozeman.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hKMgUEku4
Conclusions?
In the dry, rim brakes (on carbon rims nonetheless) were marginally faster due to better aero (higher top speed between curves.)
In the wet, disc brakes were better... obviously.
My personal conclusions.
Do you ride in the rain at the edge of grip on carbon rims?
If the answer is yes, then disc brakes could be good for you.
If the answer is (likely) no, rim brakes are actually better for you.
I'd love to see the same test done with aluminum rims (or at least aluminum brake tracks), although I bet the aero or weight penalty would affect the results more.
Someone once asked "why disc brakes aren't on road bikes".
I think the answer is pretty clearly "they barely do crap for normal riding, and most people don't ride in situations where they're useful."
Come on, be honest, when's the last time you purposefully rode in the rain?
Using the argument of "I like disc brakes because occasionally I get caught in the rain" is the same as saying "I put snow tires on my summer convertible car because occasionally we'll have a freak snow storm and I'll get caught in it." (Happens more often than you think here in Bozeman.)
I have rim brakes on aluminum wheels. When it rains, I purposefully use only the front brake so my rear rim isn't destroyed prematurely by all the grits thrown at it by the front wheel, unless it's an emergency stop. Never had an overshoot when braking so far, even in an emergency.
07-16-17, 02:40 PM
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Last edited by GeneO; 07-17-17 at 09:24 AM.
07-16-17, 02:56 PM
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Last week. Mix of pavement and mud/gravel
Not all of those on BF are fair-weather riders riding only when it is 70F and sunny on pavement with flat roads and only a seat wedge and a bidon.
If you riding live such a sheltered riding life, I'd advise trying rain sometime. It can be quite fun TBH.
Not all of those on BF are fair-weather riders riding only when it is 70F and sunny on pavement with flat roads and only a seat wedge and a bidon.
If you riding live such a sheltered riding life, I'd advise trying rain sometime. It can be quite fun TBH.
That said, I have bikes with both disk and rim brakes and both can be excellent. And I do have a fair-weather road bike that has excellent rim brakes and I'm completely satisfied with that. But disks absolutely have a place, too, they're not the appropriate choice in every circumstance, but can be a superior choice in some.
07-16-17, 03:27 PM
#34
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BTW- expect makers to very carefully engineer the maximum braking power for disc brakes, because too much brake can be as or even more dangerous than not enough brake. Trying to find ways to ensure adequate braking power yet, preventing endos from too much braking has long been a challenge, and historically makers have faced more suits over brake induced endos than over inadequate braking power.
07-16-17, 03:28 PM
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No disc brake worth a crap is going to fade from one stop like that. I encounter the very scenario you describe in the town where I live often. Long VERY steep hills that end at a stop.
And long hard stops like that are exactly when I like my new discs over my old rim brakes. Less work on my part and more cosistent control.
Yes, discs do fade, but do so after an amount of braking that would have either melted or glazed a set of rim brakes.
Just ask any mountain biker who has spent a lot of time on both in steep terrain with prolonged, hard braking.
In other words, modulation only comes into play when you most need it, like emergency stops or braking on a wet surface or a patch of gravel.
Last edited by Kapusta; 07-17-17 at 05:39 AM.
07-16-17, 03:50 PM
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What about carbon rims designed for disc brakes? They can be made more aero, stronger, and probably lighter.
07-16-17, 03:53 PM
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So, in dry conditions the rim brake bike was 2 seconds faster on average, but the guy said that was likely due to the aero advantage of the RIMS, not the brakes. He said the rim brake bike had more aero rims.
At the speeds described here, I think the rims would account for at least 2 seconds over 6 minutes.
So what I am getting from this is that it is a wash in the dry, but disc had a clear advantage in the wet.
Take away for me was that aero rims make a difference at those speeds.
At the speeds described here, I think the rims would account for at least 2 seconds over 6 minutes.
So what I am getting from this is that it is a wash in the dry, but disc had a clear advantage in the wet.
Take away for me was that aero rims make a difference at those speeds.
07-16-17, 03:55 PM
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And of course, disc brakes dont ruin rims or scab them up.
And discussed before, discs are the new click shifting, and the new clipless pedals. Due to marketing and economies of scale, discs will surely take over.
And discussed before, discs are the new click shifting, and the new clipless pedals. Due to marketing and economies of scale, discs will surely take over.
Last edited by rydabent; 07-16-17 at 03:59 PM.
07-16-17, 07:26 PM
#42
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07-16-17, 07:57 PM
#43
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I would never ride in the rain for safety reasons. If it starts to rain I stop riding. No exceptions.
I've always had rim brakes, although I'm not opposed to disc brakes. My bikes are a bit older and I intend to keep them for a very long time.
Also, I know how to adjust rim brakes and it's easy to find decent replacement pads. I don't know how to adjust disc brakes (mechanical or hydraulic) and it appears they all use different pads, which is too confusing. I prefer to live life simply.
And finally, rim brakes have never failed me. If they had I would most likely make the move to disc brakes.
I've always had rim brakes, although I'm not opposed to disc brakes. My bikes are a bit older and I intend to keep them for a very long time.
Also, I know how to adjust rim brakes and it's easy to find decent replacement pads. I don't know how to adjust disc brakes (mechanical or hydraulic) and it appears they all use different pads, which is too confusing. I prefer to live life simply.
And finally, rim brakes have never failed me. If they had I would most likely make the move to disc brakes.
07-16-17, 08:05 PM
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07-16-17, 08:07 PM
#45
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Faulty premises lead to flawed conclusions.
07-16-17, 09:37 PM
#46
Interocitor Command
Well, uhm ... I stop as soon as is reasonably possible. 
07-16-17, 09:46 PM
#47
Non omnino gravis
Saw a bike in the stand at the LBS a few months ago where the owner had neglected to change the brake pads on time, and the pad holders had absolutely demolished the braking surface on his rear carbon wheel. 100% user error, but there it is.
One of the best rides I've ever done spent almost 5 hours in absolutely pouring rain. It was fantastic.
One of the best rides I've ever done spent almost 5 hours in absolutely pouring rain. It was fantastic.
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07-16-17, 10:44 PM
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Not really an option for anyone who goes touring or does long-distance stuff in general...unless you live in a pretty arid place. And riding in the rain isn't that big a deal unless visibility is really limited by it.
This^
Last edited by manapua_man; 07-16-17 at 10:47 PM.
07-16-17, 10:47 PM
#49
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We should just create a disc vs rim brake forum
The answer to this is really simple.
If you like disc brakes buy a bike with disc brakes. If you like rim brakes buy a bike with rim brakes.
This is brake drama is worse than the damn 29er vs 27.5er vs 26er crap ever was in the mountain bike forums. Damn roadies
.
The answer to this is really simple.
If you like disc brakes buy a bike with disc brakes. If you like rim brakes buy a bike with rim brakes.
This is brake drama is worse than the damn 29er vs 27.5er vs 26er crap ever was in the mountain bike forums. Damn roadies
.