Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Is there a - 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,24,28 Cassette? (can I make one?)

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Is there a - 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,24,28 Cassette? (can I make one?)

Old 09-07-17, 08:51 AM
  #1  
JimShep
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Is there a - 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,24,28 Cassette? (can I make one?)

11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,24,28

I will be upgrading to 11 speed soon. I love single tooth jumps down to the 17 cog but I also want a couple of low gears for the steepest hills. I don't mind big jumps at the bottom of the cassette since I consider these 'bailout' gears. If I switch to the small ring at the 21 tooth I get 13 tightly spaced gears plus 2 big jumps to my bailout gears

So- does anyone make this cassette or is there any way I can piece one together for a reasonable cost. I will probably have a standard shimano 11-28 to work with.

Closest I have found is the campy 12-29 (12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29). I lose a little top end but probably what I will go with, if I can't find/build my dream cassette.

Or SRAM 11-28 (11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28) The 19-22 is a big jump a little higher than I want it.

I currently have a 10 speed 11-28 and hate the 15-17 jump.

If this is anything like the racers forum I will get 20 responses telling me I don't/ shouldn't want this
JimShep is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 08:55 AM
  #2  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,185
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1669 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 19 Posts
i think you are overthinking it. Just use the SRAM 11-28
redlude97 is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 09:42 AM
  #3  
Spoonrobot 
Senior Member
 
Spoonrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,180
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 988 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 23 Posts
I did the same thing for the same reasons, I can't stand anything other than 16-18-20 or 17-19-21.

The death of custom gearing is the saddest loss in modern cycling. It makes a huge difference in both recreational riding and racing but is rarely addressed and almost always met with degradation (see above )

My custom cassettes have been 9/10 speed SRAM or Shimano as they are all loose cogs with pins or a tiny 2.5mm hex screw. For 11-speed I only have experience with Shimano 105 cassettes and they do not appear to workable as the three largest cogs are combined on an aluminum spider and cannot be separated like other speeds/levels.
Spoonrobot is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 12:15 PM
  #4  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,398

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6838 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 217 Times in 180 Posts
Depends on the size of your Machine shop.. the big companies put all but the 2~3 smallest cogs fixed, on a combined carrier,
because individual ones dug into even the steel driver splines..

& Gram counting marketing wants to use light softer alloys of Al & Ti.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 12:33 PM
  #5  
John_V 
Senior Member
 
John_V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 5,301

Bikes: 2017 Colnago C-RS, 2012 Colnago Ace, 2010 Giant Cypress hybrid

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
i think you are overthinking it. Just use the SRAM 11-28
+1
__________________
HCFR Cycling Team
Ride Safe ... Ride Hard ... Ride Daily

2017 Colnago C-RS
2012 Colnago Ace
2010 Giant Cypress
John_V is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 01:24 PM
  #6  
joelcool
Senior Member
 
joelcool's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 243

Bikes: Road, Commuter, Mountain, Tandem and a couple others

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
I sure wish custom gearing was possible. So sad to be stuck with mass marketing.
joelcool is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 01:52 PM
  #7  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,889

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1646 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 60 Times in 51 Posts
Can you still mix and match with Campy? The 10 and 11 speeds?) I went Campy 9-speed when I set up my good bike and love the gear choices. Yes, most of the clusters use a 19-21-23 cluster and just the 25 and 28 beyond, but everything from 12 to 18 and be used above so that is a lot of good choices. Top cog can be 12, 13 or 14. I often run 12-14 at the top then one tooth jumps to the 19-23 cluster, pulling the 18 if I want to use the 25 and 16 to use the 28.

Now I have it set up 13-23. Almost a "corncob" and really sweet!

My primary reason for going Campy had nothing to do with the gear choices. SRAM index barely existed and I will never put brake lever shifting on a bike I ride. Too many decades of riding with my index fingers pushing the levers inward to steady the HBs, especially when riding one-handed. The Shimano shift system is, for me, an accident waiting to happen. I've had enough.

Ben
79pmooney is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 01:59 PM
  #8  
ptempel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersry the beautiful Garden State
Posts: 1,911

Bikes: 2007 Ridley Excalibur, 2003 Orbea Orca, 199? Cannondale Headshock MTB hardtail

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 514 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I recall reading that the Shimano Tiagra 10 speed cassettes have separate cogs. But that doesn't help for 11 speed. Maybe a third party cassette supplier like Miche might have something closer to what you want?

LIGHT PRIMATO 11 SH - Cassettes / sprockets - Components - Products

Looking at that page and page 73 of the catalog PDF, it seems that they let you customize most of it. However, I don't know who will sell this. Searching only showed the 10 speed primato cassettes so far.
ptempel is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 02:14 PM
  #9  
smarkinson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 986
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Contact this guy and ask him if it's possible to build your ideal cassette from Miche sprockets.

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/product...r-shimano-sram

Just readng his website it seems you can only have a max spacing of 3 teeth so maybe 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,22,25,28 ?

Last edited by smarkinson; 09-07-17 at 02:21 PM.
smarkinson is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 02:21 PM
  #10  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,385
Mentioned: 163 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8621 Post(s)
Liked 360 Times in 231 Posts
Originally Posted by John_V View Post
+1
+2000. We are talking about a difference of only one tooth on only two of the cogs OP is fixated on. 22 instead of 21 and 25 instead of 24. The "Princess and the Pea" is a fairy tale.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 02:27 PM
  #11  
coominya
Senior Member
 
coominya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Posts: 1,643

Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 703 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1x People are getting lazy. Soon they will want automatic transmissions...
coominya is offline  
Old 09-09-17, 04:44 AM
  #12  
europa
Grumpy Old Bugga
 
europa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,229

Bikes: Hillbrick, Malvern Star Oppy S2, Europa (R.I.P.)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 370 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
+2000. We are talking about a difference of only one tooth on only two of the cogs OP is fixated on. 22 instead of 21 and 25 instead of 24. The "Princess and the Pea" is a fairy tale.
Nope. If you want it, go for it. Customisation doesn't have to make 'sense' to the masses, only to you. Find a way to make it happen, the solution that belongs to you is always more satisfying than the one dictated by a marketing committee.
europa is offline  
Old 09-09-17, 05:10 AM
  #13  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 22,367
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8524 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by ptempel View Post
I recall reading that the Shimano Tiagra 10 speed cassettes have separate cogs. But that doesn't help for 11 speed. Maybe a third party cassette supplier like Miche might have something closer to what you want?

LIGHT PRIMATO 11 SH - Cassettes / sprockets - Components - Products

Looking at that page and page 73 of the catalog PDF, it seems that they let you customize most of it. However, I don't know who will sell this. Searching only showed the 10 speed primato cassettes so far.
10 speed and 11 speed cassettes have the same sprocket width, the only difference is the spacer width, and the first couple of loose sprockets without spacers.

So, one could potentially convert a 10s cassette into a 11s cassette.

The big issue with "custom" cassettes is that one can't guarantee the shift gates are lined up, unless there is a way to do a full custom ground cassette. But, mixing and matching parts, invariably the shift gates will be slightly out of alignment.

What that means to the rider is that a stock cassette will have reliably smooth shifting at relatively high power, while a customized cassette may have slightly clunky shifting, perhaps being slow shifting, or require over-shifting.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 09-09-17, 01:46 PM
  #14  
ptempel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersry the beautiful Garden State
Posts: 1,911

Bikes: 2007 Ridley Excalibur, 2003 Orbea Orca, 199? Cannondale Headshock MTB hardtail

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 514 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
10 speed and 11 speed cassettes have the same sprocket width, the only difference is the spacer width, and the first couple of loose sprockets without spacers.

So, one could potentially convert a 10s cassette into a 11s cassette.

The big issue with "custom" cassettes is that one can't guarantee the shift gates are lined up, unless there is a way to do a full custom ground cassette. But, mixing and matching parts, invariably the shift gates will be slightly out of alignment.

What that means to the rider is that a stock cassette will have reliably smooth shifting at relatively high power, while a customized cassette may have slightly clunky shifting, perhaps being slow shifting, or require over-shifting.
By shift gates, you mean the different shapes of some of the teeth on the cog, correct? I can see that you would degrade some shift performance if they don't line up like the manufaturer intended. I've never tried it (and usually stick to 12-27 shimano and 12-25 campy cassettes mostly). The few hills in my area don't warrant much lower than 39x27. However, it would be interesting to try a custom cassette. Its too bad that Shimano doesn't sell separate cogs for 11 speed. Maybe they will when it trickles down to Tiagra. Campy does have separate cogs for Veloce so that should be easily customizable. The last time I searched for a source for custom spacers, the company (or individual) was no longer making them. I was interested in them to do a minor cassette conversion to let me use a Shimano freehub on a Campy 10 speed drivetrain.
ptempel is offline  
Old 09-09-17, 02:57 PM
  #15  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 22,367
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8524 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 74 Posts
With the Uniglide (and most of the vintage freewheels), the sprockets were all the same shape, and never needed to be lined up.

With Hyperglide, the sprockets can only go on in one direction, and are designed with gates where one side lifts the chain, and the other side releases it, and it all happens so that the chain theoretically sets down on the next sprocket at exactly the right place. And thus smoother shifting.

Thus, no individual sprockets separate from what goes into specific cassettes.
Shimano does list parts numbers on sprockets that aren't riveted together, or on common carriers, but I don't know how easy it is to buy them. E-Bay? LBS?

Anyway, one can buy spacers (or re-use spacers), and potentially merge 10s and 11s sprockets to build one's dream cassette, but don't expect shifting to be perfect.

Personally, I run a merged cassette, with a single jump in the middle. It is a little rough shifting at the split, but not too bad. If you do the custom cassette, I'd encourage choosing two cassettes to merge that you only have a single split in the middle, like merging a 11-25 cassette + 12-28 cassette... or something. I have considered milling a second shift gate into the merged cassette, but haven't tried it yet.

Download the Shimano parts lists for your target cassettes by searching Google for things like "CS-6800 PDF", "CS-HG500-10 PDF". That will help you figure out options.

Keep in mind that different cassettes have common carriers differently.

Tiagara: Riveted Sprockets.
105: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3
Ultegra: 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
Dura Ace 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 2

The differences between Ultegra and Dura Ace can be handy, but also EXPENSIVE.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 09-09-17, 05:04 PM
  #16  
ThermionicScott 
hungry
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 18,424

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2029 Post(s)
Liked 99 Times in 82 Posts
If we're voting, the Campy 12-29 gets mine. My hat is off to you if a 12t top cog limits your speed.
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 09-11-17, 02:12 PM
  #17  
ptempel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersry the beautiful Garden State
Posts: 1,911

Bikes: 2007 Ridley Excalibur, 2003 Orbea Orca, 199? Cannondale Headshock MTB hardtail

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 514 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
If we're voting, the Campy 12-29 gets mine. My hat is off to you if a 12t top cog limits your speed.
I honestly use the 12 so rarely that I wouldn't really miss it. Only place that I can think of is a downhill starting at Degraw Ave and Teaneck Ave in Teaneck. Even then, I think I'm not always using it... Most other downhills have too many lights and intersections. I like life too much to go hog wild on them.

Last edited by ptempel; 09-11-17 at 02:17 PM.
ptempel is offline  
Old 09-11-17, 02:21 PM
  #18  
ThermionicScott 
hungry
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 18,424

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2029 Post(s)
Liked 99 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by ptempel View Post
I honestly use the 12 so rarely that I wouldn't really miss it. Only place that I can think of is a downhill starting at Degraw Ave and Teaneck Ave in Teaneck. Even then, I think I'm not always using it... Most other downhills have too many lights and intersections. I like life too much to go hog wild on them.
All of my cassettes start with 13.

I must be slow.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 09-12-17, 08:23 AM
  #19  
ptempel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersry the beautiful Garden State
Posts: 1,911

Bikes: 2007 Ridley Excalibur, 2003 Orbea Orca, 199? Cannondale Headshock MTB hardtail

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 514 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
All of my cassettes start with 13.

I must be slow.
No, no. You can spin like Chris Froome!
ptempel is offline  
Old 09-12-17, 12:22 PM
  #20  
Leebo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 5,407

Bikes: Kona Dawg, Surly 1x1, Karate Monkey, Rockhopper, Crosscheck , Burley Runabout,

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 745 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 9 Posts
One can put together any cassette they want. Easier with some of my 9 sp setups. Got a 26-11 something. Took out the 16? Put on a 30 in the back with a spacer, seems to work fine.
Leebo is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 05:21 AM
  #21  
nz_aj
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sunrace makes 11 speed road cassettes with the 17,19,21,24,28,32,36 progression of cogs.
To create an 11-28 the 21,24,28 spider from the CSMX8 11-40 or 11-42 can be used.
I run 12-32 built from a MTB spider so spacing for bottom two gears is not perfect. I'm in the process of getting a 21,24,28,32 spider from a CSRX1 11-32.

Last edited by nz_aj; 08-19-18 at 05:38 AM.
nz_aj is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 08:59 AM
  #22  
Litespud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill NC
Posts: 368

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Vortex Chorus 10, 1995 DeBernardi Cromor fixie

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 21 Posts
I too like a close ratio cassette - I currently run Campag 12-23 10sp (12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23). The cassette is lower end - Veloce I think, because it costs ~$40, and I consider cassettes to be wear items. Apart from the 12t which has an inbuilt spacer, all of the other cogs are separate. I wonder could you buy a couple of cassettes (say, 11/25 and 13/29, and a set of 11sp-compatible spacers and build your own cassette? Since all the cogs would be from the same system, I bet the cog “timing” and shifting would be fine.
Litespud is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 09:05 AM
  #23  
Litespud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill NC
Posts: 368

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Vortex Chorus 10, 1995 DeBernardi Cromor fixie

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
My primary reason for going Campy had nothing to do with the gear choices. SRAM index barely existed and I will never put brake lever shifting on a bike I ride. Too many decades of riding with my index fingers pushing the levers inward to steady the HBs, especially when riding one-handed. The Shimano shift system is, for me, an accident waiting to happen. I've had enough.

Ben
Amen - I like my brake levers to stay put
Litespud is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 09:44 AM
  #24  
Point
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by joelcool View Post
I sure wish custom gearing was possible. So sad to be stuck with mass marketing.
Interestingly, when freehubs/cassettes were first introduced in tha ‘80’s, the ability to customize your gearing by purchasing individual cogs was touted. Also the ability to replace just the worn cogs rather than the whole set as with a freewheel. It didn’t take long for the manufacturers to start riveting the cogs together and force one to buy the whole cassette.
Point is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 11:24 AM
  #25  
bicyclridr4life
Bicyclerider4life
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida and Idaho
Posts: 1,060

Bikes: Huffy Beach Cruisers, Miami Sun Trike, Vertical PK7, KHS Montana Summit, Giant Cypress DX, Schwinn OCC Stingray

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by nz_aj View Post
Sunrace makes 11 speed road cassettes with the 17,19,21,24,28,32,36 progression of cogs.
To create an 11-28 the 21,24,28 spider from the CSMX8 11-40 or 11-42 can be used.
I run 12-32 built from a MTB spider so spacing for bottom two gears is not perfect. I'm in the process of getting a 21,24,28,32 spider from a CSRX1 11-32.
Too bad they don't offer that progression of cogs on a 7 speed freewheel. That gearing would be perfect for my trike (with a 28 tooth chainring).
bicyclridr4life is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.