HerrKaLeun

Don't get blended by a brand name. ultimately a bike manufacturer just provides the frame and selects components. The frames mostly are outsourced (Trek buys many from Giant, many buy from Kinesis etc.) That X7 derailleur doesn't become better when you move it from a BD to a Trek bike...

If you are referring to the $1,400 Fatboy SE, This only has 1x10 and other cheap shortcomings. I really recommend more range and a 1x11. I'm new to this and very closely observe my own riding and gearing. 1x11 is really fine for a fatbike, but I use the full range.

The Fatboy for $1,800 starts to be "good", but I doubt you can get that for $1,000 as mentioned above. Obviously if an LBS sells it for $1,000, buy it.

Keep in mind these (and some Trek) have SRAM brakes, so you will end up having to get new brakes some time down the road. so IMHO I got even better components from BD.

If you want a really great bike with really great components (and superior wheels and hubs to any of the LBS bikes), look at the $2,000 Canyon Dude

Obviously you need to decide what you want, and what you want to spend. Ultimately an LBS bike always has to be more expensive due to more expensive distribution channel. I recommend buying the bike you like now and not buying an inferior bike and upgrade later - that never saves money and still will limit you. People have fun on their $500 fatbikes, but over the year they end up upgrading it with another $400 and are still stuck with 170mm frames.

If I had a 170mm bike I wouldn't throw it away and upgrade to a 197mm bike... it isn't that bad. But when buying new go with new technology.

All the newer bikes have wider wheels, what do you think how the future looks like? Do you think major manufacturer will focus on 4.8" tires, or 4" tires? Especially since a snow-oriented bike would benefit from wider tires (the whole original point of fatbikes...). i got 4.8" studded tires for under $100, the Dillinger you mentioned above seem to be $160 each in 4" size. So here you already save $120 by going with mainstream sizes rather than outdated sizes. This will only get worse for 4" as the 4" bike sales taper off.

I don't see a benefit in QR. TA really is the way to go. It is not like saving 10 seconds removing the wheel will be a frequent benefit on a tubeless bike. I rather have rigidity, and that has nothing to do with jumps.

If you haven't already, you should check out the fatbike forum at MTBR. I got some really good advice over there. there you also see mile-long threads about many of the popular bikes and will learn a lot.

OneIsAllYouNeed

I'll add a vote for the Motobecane Boris X7 or X9. Wifey and I have one of each. We've only changed things for better fit. I think they're a blast to ride in winter.

I used mine for one fat bike race. I'm confident that the extra ten (maybe 15) pounds my bike weighed compared to the winners bike didn't make a difference in the standings. I also think the Vee Mission Command tires roll fast and grip well. I haven't borrowed the wife's Vee 8 tires for comparison.

jefnvk

It was this one, which I believe is the 2016 version of the one you linked (I remember the salesman saying they made some improvements and dropped the price to $1800 for 2017) marked down to $1100, but it is currently pending sale. https://www.specialized.com/us/en/fatboy/p/106560 Although after doing some more digging, it seems the Specialized hubs had their share of issues, and I may be shying away at this point.

I took a look at the Beargrease too, but the mechanic had no idea why it was missing the seatpost, so I didn't get a ride. They're supposed to be putting it back together for me to look at this weekend, and seemed willing to sweeten the price a bit cheaper than the current $1000.

I'm also really not opposed to ordering, I have no particular attachment to any LBS, just figured if I could walk out of the shop with a comparable name-brand at the same price point as their BD competition, I'd go for the former. The idea of coming home to a bike on the doorstep is kind of a fun thought!

I'll take a dig through the fatbike forum. It would be nice if they had one here, instead of a single thread with no concentrated train of thought....

Was that a winter race? Odd to hear a competitor not blaming their equipment

OneIsAllYouNeed

It was a winter race with 3 segments: up a ski slope,down the terrain park, then across some XC ski trails. I did have a major equipment malfunction that cost me the race, but it was just a derailleur tuning issue. I dumped my chain into my spokes while hoping for a lower gear to magically appear. I lost 2-3 minutes prying the chain free. If it weren’t for that, I would actually have won with my 35lb Boris X9.

FrozenK

I've been riding fat bikes since the days when the only tire was the Endomorph, son. I saw 190mm bikes in the making before they were even released to the public. You just bought a bike, which I believe you haven't even ridden in snow. I have several thousand miles on snow on my Corvus.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the studded tires you bought are ****. And the colder it gets the worse they'll perform. Yes, the Dillinger are expensive. But there is a reason for that. The Arisun are a better option, from what I hear. Haven't tried them. The Terrene Wazia are also a good option. Cheaper than the Dillinger.

The tire width wars have stabilized. There is little to gain from going wider than the current ~4.5. Realistically, most people will be fine with 4-inch tires on 80mm rims 90% of the time. But it does seem people want the ability to run 4.5 tires.

To go wider than that -and fit the only tire wider in the market the Snowshoe XXL- you have to make a lot of compromises that won't pay off. You need an even wider bottom bracket and hub, and unless you are in the deepest of the deep fluff all the time it isn't worth it. There was one bike running XXLs on the ITI (Iditarod Trail Invitational) last year. Even with some soft snow, it didn't pay off. And he still ended up pushing.

I honestly see a return/revival of 170/177mm rears more likely than I see the industry going wider in the back. With a 170/177mm rear you can run a lower q factor which helps. I don't think 190/197 is going anywhere but neither are 4-inch tires.

prj71

The older fatboys ran 190mm QR rear and you can fit up to a 5" tire on there. The newer fatboys have 197mm thru axle I believe starting with the 2016 models.

FWIW...I have had no problems with QR on my Fatboy.

jefnvk

I will make sure that anything I get has the ability to fit 4.6", regardless of hub width, if for no other reason that not wanting to limit myself on tires. I can't really see myself spending the cash on a tire wider than that anyhow.

If I were to go with a cheaper bike with a 170 hub and 4" tires, are there any replacement tires you would recommend for snow? May as well price out that option as well.

Have you had any issues with the rear hub that seemed to affect the house Specialized brand hubs?

FrozenK

It depends on the local conditions, but if you see freeze/thaw or ice the Dillingers are hard to beat -either 4 or 5inch. If you don't see ice at all, then Schwalbe Jumbo Jim or 45Nrth flowbeast/funder beast are a good option. If you see a lot of deep snow, Surly Nate or 45Nrth Van Helga's

And the Salsa Bear grease can probably fit 4.6 tires as long as you keep the rims in the 80mm range. If you use a 1x drive train.

One more thing, with regards to SRAM brakes. I have three seasons usimg Guides on my mountain bike without any problems. I wouldn't worry about getting a bike with them at all.

02Giant 

I don't know all the specifics, two coworkers bought Raleigh Fat Tire bikes in the $600-$700 range forgoing the more expensive Minnesota Brand (not sure of specific model). Both regretted and ended up selling in less than a year.

jefnvk

Yep, the Salsa archive site says as much, up to 4.6 with 80mm and 1x.

I still ride a Schwinn with black rubber brakes and steel rims. I seriously doubt any brakes are going to be lacking to me.

jefnvk

Or, let me toss this out. Fuji Wendigo 2.1?
https://www.performancebike.com/bike..._1211178_-1___

With the current 20% off, comes out to $750. Deore XT RD, SRAM x7 front, 197 Formula rear hubs, 100m Weinmann rims and Jumbo Jim 4.8". Tektro hydro brakes. I know there is at least one in my size at one of my local PBs.

Anything I am overlooking with this?

DaveQ24

OK, I’m a piss-poor mechanic and I don’t get deeply into the nuances of groupsets, etc. So you’re going to get a lot better answers than this, but ... for the price, plus 20% in bonus points, it is probably a pretty good deal.

FrozenK

That looks like a pretty good deal. I don't know how easy it would be to setup tubeless, but even if you end up buying new wheels down the road that Fuji looks like a good starting point

HerrKaLeun

It looks like that 2016 model has QR and 1x10 only. it has 11-40T cassette, so you almost get the range of an 1x11, but the steps will be larger. Standard for 1x11 is 11-42 and you can get 11-46 cassettes, BTW.

Yeah hubs seem to be the achilles heel of most fatbikes due to the width. so far the only good ones are the DT Swiss, but most bikes don't have those. The Canyon dude i linked above has DT Swiss hubs and wheels. I haven't had an issue (Novatec on mine) yet, though. There are some percussions one can do for mine.

But the thing is, with the LBS brands they don't even tell you what hubs they use (they call it Specialized or Trek hub etc., but they don't make hubs). So they may use cheaper hubs. with BD and other online retailers they at least tell you what hub they have.

Whatever you do, make sure it fits and you don't buy a "special price" bike that doesn't fit. When I shopped around I also test-rode the Fatboy. they only had an "M" and the sales person recommended and "L". i asked about trying one, and they said i have to put 50% down and they get me one in the size to test and get the money back if i didn't like it. Well, being out of almost $1K for some weeks and then being semi-locked into a bike didn't jive with me.

FrozenK

Hope, Hadley, Fatback (non-Hadley) and Onyx have an excellent track record on fatbike hubs. 9:zero:7 also has a pretty good track record in the real world outside of MTBR. Same with Industry 9 hubs.

Yes, the DTSwiss are wonderful hubs and one of the best values out there, but they are not "the only real good ones."

Incidentally, all of them are still made for 170/177mm as well as 190/1huns.

jefnvk

And the problem with the Fuji is that I didn't read the tiny print under the giant INCLUDES BIKES that said "excludes 2017 Fujis"

Oh well, fat bike demo day and sale next weekend!

beicster 

I have a Boris X 7 and I have been perfectly happy with it. I agree that the tires are not great, especially on snow. The x 7 comes with Vee 8. They were fine for goofing around in the yard and they had great traction on the steep section in my yard (I live in a hollow). But, they had terrible self steer on pavement and gravel and they packed up quickly on wet dirt. I managed to squeeze some Vee 4.25" (can't remember which ones) in with no problem. I could go up to a 5" on the front but the 4.25" are maxxed out in the back.

DaveQ24

Crap! If you don’t end up with something else before, odds are they are going to have some big promotions in the next 2-3 weeks for “Black Friday” so worth checking back. Maybe even ask the store manager about a week from Monday if he knows any great deals coming up on that specific bike.

jefnvk

Yeah, they told me as much. I just hate going out on that day, hopefully they go the week long sale route.

DaveQ24

You probably could order it online for store pickup if it isn’t until the actual Black Friday, and most stores now go live online with the B F deals either Thursday or some unGodly time like 12:01 AM or 4:00 AM on Friday. Performance might.

Novi store? Yeah, wouldn’t want to get within 5 miles of 12 Oaks/West Oaks/Novi Town Center mess on Black Friday. The Bloomfield Twp store on Telegraph would be fine, I doubt Better Health Market, Pet Supplies Plus or Olga’s Kitchen will have “out the door, no place to park” crowds.

If I had to go to the Novi store on BF, I think I would find some quieter place to park further out, like the IHOP parking lot directly across on Grand River and just walk over. I hate those big crowds/no parking spots/crazy driver situations myself.

jefnvk

Actually Ann Arbor, I live just north of town. Telegraph one is my favorite, I work right by it (for another week). I only hit up Novi occasionally when I'm driving home. They have the best deals and the oddest collection, though.

jefnvk

And after a day of playing with various options, I think I am focusing on the Fuji. Wasn't as fast or as nimble as most other option, but it plowed over everything with far more confidence. Tires felt good on the limited terrain I could get it on, and seem to get decent snow reviews (at least compared to anything else that is stock). Also the hydro brakes really shine on the fat tires, even if I am fine with mechanicals on my touring bike.

Beargrease felt good, felt really fast, but I am concerned about tire width even though Salsa claims a 4.6 will fit. Looked at a couple Frameds, there is a random Minnesota 3.0 that I still have my eye on for $700 the shop is trying to move, but I'm really shying towards hydro brakes. Pretty much eliminated the Fatboys, simply for what appears to be a pretty prevalent rear freehub issue.

HerrKaLeun

My theory is that on fatbikes you have so much more traction, you actually can take advantage of stronger brakes and larger rotors because your tire still can transmit the force before locking up. On "normal" bikes the brakes don't need to be so strong since the tire doesn't have that much traction anyway. With my limited experience, I'm always impressed how my tires never slip away or lock while on a normal bike I'm sure I would slip around under similar conditions. Whatever bike you end up, I recommend upgrading to 180mm up front.

jefnvk

Don't have to on the Fuji, comes with 180 front and rear

Perhaps just another indication it is the proper choice!

prj71

I did. But Specialized stood behind their product and bought me a brand new Hope Fatsno Hub. No charge for hub or the install. They even let me pick the color so I went with red. They also did the same for other friends of mine that had hub issues.

Here is a pic of mine from this past Saturday....