Originally Posted by Kapusta

I don't know. They have pretty different BB drop measurements and different fork offsets. How different they feel I imagine depends a lot on who is riding it. Some people are sensitive to these things, some are not and just adapt happily to a lot of different handling geometries. But looking at the numbers, it does make sense that the three All City bikes handle more similarly to each other than to your Jamis.

I noticed you included the Salsa Casseroll, which I assume that is because I was talking about it. If it matters, mine was the 2010 model (1st generation, the one that came with long reach brakes instead of cantis) which may have had different geo numbers. Also, I am generally looking at the smaller sizes, where you start to get some changes in HA and fork offset, so I don't have a very informed opinion about the differences in the larger sizes.

Originally Posted by fietsbob

Big Sheet of paper Draw it out...If it matters enough.

Originally Posted by fietsbob

those would just be opinions.. not something 'to take to the Bank' ...

Originally Posted by bhdavis1978

Well, maybe, maybe not. If people give their descriptions of what they think and why then I can evaluate their answers to see if their explanations make sense and form my opinions based on that. On the other and since I can't interpret the numbers either directly or by comparing figures based on them then they are more useful than what I can do now. For example, I have no sense of whether a smaller or larger bottom bracket drop would make a bike feel more or less responsive. On the other hand I have a bit of an indrsrsnding of how wheelbase length and head tube angle influence things.