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Chalk this one to ignorance

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Old 01-12-18, 05:41 PM
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Fastfingaz
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Chalk this one to ignorance

So now I bought this full carbon road bike it came with 700x23's I didn't like them ,have to carry too much pressure so I see on Craig's list two 700x28 I said hmm two gaterskins slicks like new $30.00 I went and bought them ,get home swap everything out the front fit good now back wheel when sitting all the way in the drop out tire hits the back triangle not bottom bracket but under seat width wise is ok , so I pull wheel out so I have about 1/8 inch clearance and tighten it up and it's fine now the question is it safe to ride?? I always thought that the size only effected the width of the tires not overall diameter,,,, dropouts are vertical,
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Old 01-12-18, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Fastfingaz View Post
So now I bought this full carbon road bike it came with 700x23's I didn't like them ,have to carry too much pressure so I see on Craig's list two 700x28 I said hmm two gaterskins slicks like new $30.00 I went and bought them ,get home swap everything out the front fit good now back wheel when sitting all the way in the drop out tire hits the back triangle not bottom bracket but under seat width wise is ok , so I pull wheel out so I have about 1/8 inch clearance and tighten it up and it's fine now the question is it safe to ride?? I always thought that the size only effected the width of the tires not overall diameter,,,, dropouts are vertical,
I tried 25 mm tires in the C59. The tires cleared the front fork just fine, but road debris tended to scrape against the bottom of the fork.

Went back to 23mm.

I use 25mm tires in the Master and the Bottecchia and canít really the difference.

Size affects width and height (diameter).
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Old 01-12-18, 06:18 PM
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caloso
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Wider tires are taller too. You've found this out.

Wheels are meant to sit completely in vertical dropouts. Not only is this possibly unsafe, but probably you've also screwed up your shifting and braking.

Sell or trade these tires and get some that fit. Sorry.
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Old 01-12-18, 06:18 PM
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You're squeezing a wider tire on the same rim that the smaller tire was on. Of course it's going to be taller, the rim width doesn't expand.
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Old 01-12-18, 06:32 PM
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Maybe why they were for sale.
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Old 01-12-18, 06:45 PM
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I'm going to swap everything back tomorrow,,,, maybe someone will buy the 28's from me ,,,, I hate the 23's
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Old 01-12-18, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Fastfingaz View Post
I'm going to swap everything back tomorrow,,,, maybe someone will buy the 28's from me ,,,, I hate the 23's
The cross-section of bike tires is pretty circular so wider tires also tend to be taller by a similar amount.

If the 28mm tire fits ok on the front and you prefer the wider tire then I'd leave that one alone and just switch back to the narrower tire on the rear where you have a clearance issue.
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Old 01-12-18, 07:36 PM
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Yes I suppose I could do that,,, just change the back one,,,
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Old 01-12-18, 10:02 PM
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You might also measure. I know some tires run wider than their listed width, and different tires are taller, too.

I have a Panasonic RibMo on one bike that has to be a quarter-inch taller than the Schwalbe of the same width i have on the rear (actually, both are listed 23 but the Panasonic is narrower, too.)

I have some 28-mm Conti Ultrasports which don't seem to be any taller, but are about 30 mm wide, and some Maxxis Padrones which are an actual 28 mm .... so possibly you could try Conti Ultraposrts or GP 4000 in 25, which on a lot of rims seem to be about 28 mm wide, but no taller than most other tires .... and maybe they will fit.

I know I have seen actual widths posted online for different tires ... maybe someone lists actual diameters too?

As for dropping the wheel in the dropouts? On a carbon bike, that would mean using Enormous pressure on the quick-release or wheel nuts, which would be tremendous stress on the dropout ears .... when the compression stress is spread over the whole dropout and the vertical stress is borne by the axle housing pressing against the whole dropout a full half-circle and not the wheels nuts pressing on a tiny portion of the otherwise unsupported ears ....

Wedge one index finger all the way into the junction between you first two finger of one hand and shake it around. Then try to hold that finger between the very end of those two fingers.

You snap those ears off at speed and the wheel sucks up the derailleur and jams against the frame and folds up like a jelly roll and you get to sample the local pavement .....

Try 25s, try measuring ... try tubeless, which allows you to run lower pressures without risking pinch flats.

You can get away with playing with how far you insert the wheel with a steel frame and solid wheel nuts. Most quick-release units have plastic cams .... and CF frames take stress Only in certain directions. Better toe bite the bullet and buy new tires than to eat the pavement and never ride again.
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Old 01-12-18, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
You might also measure. I know some tires run wider than their listed width, and different tires are taller, too.

I have a Panasonic RibMo on one bike that has to be a quarter-inch taller than the Schwalbe of the same width i have on the rear (actually, both are listed 23 but the Panasonic is narrower, too.)

I have some 28-mm Conti Ultrasports which don't seem to be any taller, but are about 30 mm wide, and some Maxxis Padrones which are an actual 28 mm .... so possibly you could try Conti Ultraposrts or GP 4000 in 25, which on a lot of rims seem to be about 28 mm wide, but no taller than most other tires .... and maybe they will fit.

I know I have seen actual widths posted online for different tires ... maybe someone lists actual diameters too?

As for dropping the wheel in the dropouts? On a carbon bike, that would mean using Enormous pressure on the quick-release or wheel nuts, which would be tremendous stress on the dropout ears .... when the compression stress is spread over the whole dropout and the vertical stress is borne by the axle housing pressing against the whole dropout a full half-circle and not the wheels nuts pressing on a tiny portion of the otherwise unsupported ears ....

Wedge one index finger all the way into the junction between you first two finger of one hand and shake it around. Then try to hold that finger between the very end of those two fingers.

You snap those ears off at speed and the wheel sucks up the derailleur and jams against the frame and folds up like a jelly roll and you get to sample the local pavement .....

Try 25s, try measuring ... try tubeless, which allows you to run lower pressures without risking pinch flats.

You can get away with playing with how far you insert the wheel with a steel frame and solid wheel nuts. Most quick-release units have plastic cams .... and CF frames take stress Only in certain directions. Better toe bite the bullet and buy new tires than to eat the pavement and never ride again.
Yes this has gotten a lot more complicated than expected,,, like I said I thought the difference in size pertained only to width of tire,,,
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Old 01-13-18, 06:53 AM
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The right answer, of course, is to buy another bike that would fit those tires. I'm shocked no one has mentioned this. C'mon, people!
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Old 01-13-18, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
The right answer, of course, is to buy another bike that would fit those tires. I'm shocked no one has mentioned this. C'mon, people!
I know you're being sarcastic and humorous but I actually thought to buy another frame,,,,, lol ill get it done this isn't the only bike I have,,,
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Old 01-13-18, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
You're squeezing a wider tire on the same rim that the smaller tire was on. Of course it's going to be taller, the rim width doesn't expand.
so a wider rim would spread the tire more, resulting in a smaller diameter?
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Old 01-13-18, 08:18 AM
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Bummer on the tires not fitting but two for $30 sounds like you won't lose money.

I went from 23 to 25 Contis (gatorskin rear, 4 season front) and the different was impressive. You might just be happy with 25.

Whataren't you liking about the 23's? Biggest change for me was the front, taking corners much faster and with better stability. Road harshness was decreased quite a bit as well.
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Old 01-13-18, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
so a wider rim would spread the tire more, resulting in a smaller diameter?
Yes. Just take a tire, pull the beads apart and then push them together. See what the tire does. It's simple physics.
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Old 01-13-18, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GrainBrain View Post
Bummer on the tires not fitting but two for $30 sounds like you won't lose money.

I went from 23 to 25 Contis (gatorskin rear, 4 season front) and the different was impressive. You might just be happy with 25.

Whataren't you liking about the 23's? Biggest change for me was the front, taking corners much faster and with better stability. Road harshness was decreased quite a bit as well.
Well after all this I think I'm starting to like the 23's,,,
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Old 01-13-18, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Fastfingaz View Post
Well after all this I think I'm starting to like the 23's,,,


You've come to your senses. There's not a damned thing in the world wrong with those 23s, though people will try to gaslight you on a regular basis.
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Old 01-13-18, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Scarbo View Post


You've come to your senses. There's not a damned thing in the world wrong with those 23s, though people will try to gaslight you on a regular basis.
Actually nobody influenced me in any way , what happened is I have a trek 2300 it's got bottranger 25's I like them got used to riding on them so when I bought this bike I thought if 25 is good then 28 got to be better,,,,, well maybe not so much on this frame,,,
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Old 01-13-18, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Yes. Just take a tire, pull the beads apart and then push them together. See what the tire does. It's simple physics.
Sure, but you only see the significant differences at the extremes were anyone would obviously see that the tire is not the right size for the rim.

A 28 mm tire should fit anywhere from a 15mm to 19mm rim without reservation. I doubt you see more than a mm of diameter change in those ranges.
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Old 01-13-18, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Sure, but you only see the significant differences at the extremes were anyone would obviously see that the tire is not the right size for the rim.

A 28 mm tire should fit anywhere from a 15mm to 19mm rim without reservation. I doubt you see more than a mm of diameter change in those ranges.
I didn't say it would it be a big difference. Different rim widths affect the tire width more, but obviously that changes the height as well. I have a 42mm tire on a narrow 17mm rim, and the tire measures 38c on it but it's pretty tall. If I mounted it on a 22mm rim it would probably measure 42c but the diameter would be smaller.
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Old 01-13-18, 01:49 PM
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One of the biggest mistakes I made in my cycling "education" was to try to follow the pros with skinny tires, slammed stems, and super stiff non-compliant "racing geometry" type frames.

It took me longer than it should have to realize that riding is a lot more fun on an endurance type frame (compliant, comfortable position) with wide puncture resistant tires. You can ride a bike configured like that on any paved road, no matter how badly maintained, and even in most off-road situations (you will have to take it slower than on a mountain bike) and it's fun!
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Old 01-13-18, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
...the tire measures 38c on it but it's pretty tall. If I mounted it on a 22mm rim it would probably measure 42c but the diameter would be smaller.
With what are you measuring? "c" is not a unit of measurement unless you're referring to the speed of light. Normal rulers would measure in units like inches, cm, mm, etc.
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Old 01-13-18, 02:17 PM
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Old 01-13-18, 02:18 PM
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Larger tires are wider and taller. Rim width will have some effect on this as well. I love 28mm, rolls like a dream on choppy pavement. Maybe try 25mm?
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Old 01-13-18, 02:23 PM
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Fastfingaz
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Originally Posted by SouthFLpix View Post
One of the biggest mistakes I made in my cycling "education" was to try to follow the pros with skinny tires, slammed stems, and super stiff non-compliant "racing geometry" type frames.

It took me longer than it should have to realize that riding is a lot more fun on an endurance type frame (compliant, comfortable position) with wide puncture resistant tires. You can ride a bike configured like that on any paved road, no matter how badly maintained, and even in most off-road situations (you will have to take it slower than on a mountain bike) and it's fun!
Well at one time I did a lot of competition duatholons and rode skinny tires but now 10 years later I tend to as you say enjoy the rides and that is why I decided to swap out the 23's for the 28's , the roads around here are not in good shape ,,
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