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Stop buying random bicycles!!!

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Old 01-13-18, 02:46 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
I started the thread so I could call people idiots for not using a fit-first approach to buying a bike. It gave me great pleasure.
"Gave"; past tense.
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Old 01-13-18, 02:48 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
"Gave"; past tense.
I started the thread in the past.... The thread no longer gives me pleasure.
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Old 01-13-18, 02:49 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
I started the thread so I could call people idiots for not using a fit-first approach to buying a bike. It gave me great pleasure.
Ah. I see. Kinda figured as much.

So ...


Or is this why you posted?
Is bike fitting lucrative?

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Old 01-13-18, 05:19 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
I started the thread in the past.... The thread no longer gives me pleasure.
You should be able to close it as the OP, it's in you own posting windows. If not ask an admin.
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Old 01-13-18, 05:21 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
You should be able to close it as the OP, it's in you own posting windows. If not ask an admin.
Yeah, he should be able to delete the whole thing himself. But he might not be aware of that. Surprisingly few are.
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Old 01-13-18, 05:50 AM
  #56  
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I just assumed the OP was a pretentious idiot and didn't read too much of it. Closing or deleting it would improve the forum.
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Old 01-13-18, 06:22 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by OmegaWolf View Post
*you're


I was wondering how many posts it would take (19) for someone to bring that up.




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Old 01-13-18, 06:37 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by eyedrop View Post
i know this post comes off as aggressive and preachy
+1
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Old 01-13-18, 07:30 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
I've tried shutting up and leading by example in attempt to inspire others. But its not like many people stop and ask me about bike fitting, or what I think about X or Y. In the end, I just let it all flood out, which can spread a negative energy. It really sucks.... If anybody has advice on how to fix my personality flaw, it would be greatly appreciated.
I think being aware that the world is interactive, and not a stage, is what's needed. For example, this is a forum. That's a center for discussion and debate. The other parties have a place, and their opinions are just as important. You chose a forum, and then used it as a stage. Sort of like your original point, that you need to get the setup right before you buy the product, transfer that to your choice to take a forum and use it as a stage. Beginning the post (or any interaction with others) by not considering the allowance of discussion at the outset, will always produce negative results. You sound like you wanted to communicate an idea, but communication, however, is a two-party thing. What you really wanted was a stage, not a forum.

As far as the need for computerized bike fits, it is true that one can get lucky with a random off the shelf frame and the employee eyeballing things at the LBS, but its not common. And at the very least, a saddle, handlebar, or stem will need to be swapped out. Why buy a bike that will be torn down and rebuilt when you can buy parts individually and get it right from the get-go?
This is like my prior point. You're ignoring the complexity of human nature, and human anatomy, here. By assuming that others are like you are, and find the best answer only one way, by a statistical method, you ignore the many variances of likes and dislikes and the vast quantity of human physical differences. Just start a thread on "The Best Saddle", to begin with, and you'll see. That word "Best" doesn't simply fit an anatomically-correct computerized sizing. You can ride a professionally-sized Brooks saddle for 1000 miles and never reach a point of comfort, for you. The next rider with your exact same body dimensions gets the exact same saddle and says it's the most comfortable saddle they ever had. Some people, even vintage bike owners, have been known to choose a saddle for the looks, even if it's not comfortable at the fitting stage.

Also, why take the chance on an expensive bike when you can have peace of mind knowing that your in the optimal position, that the bike is not the cause of injuries, and the only thing holding you back from throwing down the watts is your fitness?
Some people actually like to use their own trial and error method. It's how they learn to judge, just by looking at a bike, whether it will fit them and their riding style. There's much to be said for learning things for yourself, and not simply relying on what some "professional" says. Just ask two or more top professionals their opinion on any subject....
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Old 01-13-18, 08:40 AM
  #60  
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I wonder if there is a direct correlation between long, bitter spells of bad weather and long, bad threads?
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Old 01-13-18, 08:49 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
Will someone please delete this thread? It obviously offers zero valuable information and has turned into a bunch of losers whining about how I sound like I'm right all the time.
regardless of grammar, sarcasm, passion, etc....

It is impossible to be right all the time, in a group of people that has a Select group that are also right all the time. Doesn't matter how wrong they have been doing it for 30+ years, or wrong for 20,000+ KM per year. You see, their time and distance has validated their doing it wrong into a being "RIGHT". Not to be confused with correct!

I know many people that are never wrong (aka always right), but only randomly correct.

Speaking of fit...... maybe I missed it, but not one person spoke of crank arm length in this thread so far? Ironic?
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Old 01-13-18, 08:54 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I wasn't insulting you. I was pointing out that the reaction to the thread is so universally negative that putting a factual discussion into at this point isn't going to get any readership.


Your intent in writing the OP was fine, it just got lost in matters outside the main idea - don't spend big money on a bike if you aren't going to make sure it will fit you.
Yep, that's exactly how I read your comments. The OP has issues.
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Old 01-13-18, 08:54 AM
  #63  
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Don't close/delete it... Edit the Original post to come off in a different tone and leave it.

There are a few here that will use the tone to get you to delete it. Truth be told they actually dislike the content, your tone is their excuse.
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Old 01-13-18, 09:46 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
If your a MTB/Road/Touring enthusiast that buys multi thousand dollar bicycles based off frame materials, spec sheets, brand names, aesthetics, and the generic manufacturer sizing charts, then your doing it all wrong . . . clipped . . . If your thinking about getting a nice bike, do it proper from the start. If you already have a bike that doesn't feel perfect, sell it and start over. Just my opinion...
*you're.

You're welcome.

EDIT: I see this has already been mentioned. :-)
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Old 01-13-18, 09:51 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
Don't close/delete it... Edit the Original post to come off in a different tone and leave it.

There are a few here that will use the tone to get you to delete it. Truth be told they actually dislike the content, your tone is their excuse.
Thats the impression I get from alot of people in normal everyday life. Even if I start the conversation asking for their opinion, or by casually making a suggestion, I find people can get offended by the very fact that their fundamental beliefs are being questioned. Then they proceed to call me Mr. Right and think that Im a jackhole. I think its unfortunate but best to just STFU and wait for people to ask me questions. That way Im not at an immediate disadvantage.

Ive seen people use the same tone I use on other forums, social media, youtube, etc... Its called using a shock factor to actually get people to listen, which obviously doesn't work due to people getting distracted by feeling disrespected, even if its clearly not the intention of the thread. Its unfortunate, really.

I would rather the thread be deleted since its been derailed so hard. The point of the thread got lost in pages talking about how to communicate with other human beings. This issue is a valid one, but off subject nonetheless. Why not just close the thread? I cant edit anymore anyhow...
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Old 01-13-18, 09:57 AM
  #66  
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Got the next thread in mind? Preview?
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Old 01-13-18, 10:03 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
Thats the impression I get from alot of people in normal everyday life. Even if I start the conversation asking for their opinion, or by casually making a suggestion, I find people can get offended by the very fact that their fundamental beliefs are being questioned. Then they proceed to call me Mr. Right and think that Im a jackhole. I think its unfortunate but best to just STFU and wait for people to ask me questions. That way Im not at an immediate disadvantage.
Don't sell yourself short, I was able to tell you were a jackhole a lot quicker than that.
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Old 01-13-18, 10:09 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Tape2012 View Post
Don't sell yourself short, I was able to tell you were a jackhole a lot quicker than that.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention, jackhole.
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Old 01-13-18, 10:51 AM
  #69  
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Old 01-13-18, 11:15 AM
  #70  
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Funny thread!*

*Would never need or want a "professional fit".

And yes, any OP can make their thread disappear with a couple of clicks, if their ego can tolerate that. I've done it several times.
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Old 01-13-18, 11:20 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
Even if I start the conversation asking for their opinion, or by casually making a suggestion, I find people can get offended by the very fact that their fundamental beliefs are being questioned.
Actually, sir, given your history in this thread ... I find it more likely that "their fundamental beliefs" are ridiculed, not questioned, by you.

As I said above, I am involved in exactly this discussion on another site--but there everyone is positive and respectful---some guys recommend fittings, some don't. Some have gotten fittings which were top-notch and didn't do much, some have been riding more miles that you ever will (like 11k miles last year) and have never gotten a fitting. No one tries to pick a fight or act superior, everyone is respectful, because everyone there deserves respect---which is why I am trying to treat you with respect even though you called me and all my friends, idiots.

Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
Then they proceed to call me Mr. Right and think that Im a jackhole.
Methinks you start off with a smug, "you're all idiots" jackhole attitude .... and probably think you have every right to call everyone idiots. After all, that is how you chose to start all this.
Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
I think its unfortunate but best to just STFU and wait for people to ask me questions. That way Im not at an immediate disadvantage.
Except if that were true .....

Originally Posted by Eyedrop View Post
Ive seen people use the same tone I use on other forums, social media, youtube, etc... Its called using a shock factor to actually get people to listen, which obviously doesn't work due to people getting distracted by feeling disrespected, even if its clearly not the intention of the thread. Its unfortunate, really.
Yeah it is shocking isn't it .... that when you try to insult people to get their attention, they pay attention to the fact that you are insulting them.

Here is a bit of advice that I learned after many, many hard lessons: Don't Be a Jackhole. Hopefully even though I did not call you a jackhole first to shock you so you would pay attention ... you will still pay attention because you are making your life much harder than it needs to be by refusing to throttle back the ego and increase the compassion.

You can lie to yourself and say that people are upset because you are challenging their core beliefs ... but you know what? Their are people who spend their lives challenging people's core beliefs who are beloved for it (think of a Buddhist monk .... using zen-koan-like questions to break you out of patterns of thought.)

It is All in the approach. The medium is the message .... you shout at people, they will hear shouting, not shouted words. You insult people, they will hear insults ... even if you never say an insulting word. People can feel your snotty, self-satisfied, superior attitude ... and they know that while you might have learned some stuff, you haven't yet learned how to make that stuff useful to others.

For Instance ....

If you had started by explaining how a pre-purchase bike fitting had helped you narrow down a difficult search (something a lot of riders really need help with, as you note indirectly, by mentioning the "which bike" posts) and had explained how after you bought the bike and set it up it was like riding a cloud in a dream, the most comfortable riding experience fo your life .... THAT would have gotten people's attention.

More important, they would have paid attention to what you were saying, not how you were saying it.

And yes, still some people would not be convinced that your way is "The Best" and after all, it is not. There are a lot of ways to get fit to a bike which work, and "the best" is the one which works for each person.

That guy who just wrapped up an 11K-mile year a couple weeks back .... he wouldn't call your way "the best" for him, because he has a system which has worked well for years.

Another guy in the same thread who went on and on (respectfully, with the intent to communicate and share, not to crap down people's throats like a jackhole) about how his $300 bike fitting was worth ten times that because it ended lots of little pains and some big ones and made riding a joy again .... he would say that he agreed that your way was great.

People reading that other thread who were having trouble getting Really comfortable on long rides, or people who were considering a new bike, might read that thread, and think, "You know, I think I will get fit to one of those mock-up frames Before I buy a bike."

On the other hand .....

People reading Your thread, would think, "This thread is all about this guy trying to 'prove' that he is the smartest guy on the planet by telling everyone he is the smartest guy on the planet."

Ask them what you said about bikes, and they will say, "Well he said everyone who disagreed with him was an idiot, and probably everyone who did agree was an idiot too ... I am not sure what he said about bikes. The thread was all about how long his crankshaft was and how big his bearings were.

"He really thought he was the stuff .... and in that way, he really did prove he was some kind of stuff, if you know what I mean."

The whole bike-fitting message gets lost in you strutting around waving your oversized ego.

You want the original intent of the post to be noticed? First decide on the intent---the actual intent. Trust me, you can fool yourself but you aren't fooling anyone else.

Is the actual intent to tell people they are stupid and you are the smartest, or isf the intent is truly to help people get a good fit on their bikes?

If it is about other people and their bikes, stop talking about what a genius you are (trust me, you aren't) and stop telling people what idiots they are.

Furthermore ....


Stop Thinking those things. You know, Stephen Hawking doesn't know squat about getting fit on a bicycle---you must be Waaaaay smarter than him, right?

You keep pumping up that ego and your life will just keep getting harder.

Really smart people can learn from anyone (or so I hear.) .... I am thick as a brick and I have learned a lot from this thread, so you, with your enormous intellect, must be growing by leaps and bounds, right?

Learn to respect other people even if they disagree with you, even if they don't know stuff you know. Learn that whether you like it or not .... you are exactly the same as all those people you insult.

For instance .... I could rip you to shreds about your total inability to communicate, or about your ego, or your immaturity, because those are things I know about---because I had to learn, because I used to be a lot like you, and I got tired of it.

On the other hand, you have a lot of passion, you have a lot of superficial confidence, and you can probably out-ride me by a ton (though, I was amused to see we ride about the same mileage---it probably takes me twice as long, though. ) You have a little Too much of certain selfish qualities, but obviously you have a lot of strengths.

I think, based on my own experiences and years of dealing with people like us, that probably you feel you don't get enough praise and respect for your better qualities, and this has made you brittle and supercilious ... you have a fault in your core, so to speak---you didn't develop confidence from down deep inside ... you plastered it on over the neglect you felt.

In my experience, people who brag about how smart they are are masking deep doubt. You need to learn to know yourself, flaws and strengths, and like your self, positives and negatives----then you can start to strengthen the positives and eliminate the negatives.

Whatever.

If this is a message you need to hear, you have heard it. If it helps now or ten years from now or never .... it is what I can offer. I am doing it for you .... and like any gift, once given, it has nothing to do with me. You can take these words and pee on them, toss them, insult them, ignore them, ridicule me for them ... or think about them a little. It no longer has anything to do with me.

"Take this, brother ... may it serve you well."

Always be honest with yourself and everyone else. Always have compassion for yourself---and even more so for everyone else. Tolerate your faults, and forgive yourself for them. And do the same for others.

And... if you want to ... ride your bike and enjoy it. That is what brought us all here in the first place, right? We all love riding bikes.

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