In saddle or out....?
 

As a novice cyclist, less than a year. And a heavier gentleman:D. I am really struggling to get out the saddle for any length of time.


Was reading in another post where someone asked about tips to climb hills better. I am one of those guys who sit when climbing....it kills me! My thighs burn.


Does it make a big difference being out of the saddle for a climb?


I know I need to practice it more. Just wondering what sort of difference in time/power/speed being out of the saddle would be?


Ride on.....

I would go onto youtube and search for GCN. They may have an answer for you.

Some bikes encourage it, some don't. There's no point telling us what you have because it depends on how you and it get on together. My Hillbrick is very easy to stand on, few other bikes I've ridden have been as good (Paul Hillbrick makes a VERY good bike)

Standing and pedalling is an learned skill, so it could be you just haven't learned it. It's worth developing because it'll get you over short climbs and, on long climbs, allows you to vary the ride by standing for a short period.

You mention that you're 'heavier' and this is probably the most telling point, maybe, at this stage of the game, you're just not suited to standing. I know I'm not, but I try to every now and then just to keep the skill going.

Back in the days when I wore a heart rate monitor (and I was slim and sleek then, as opposed to now), it was obvious that my heart rate went up when I stood. On the other hand, in the right circumstances, that allowed me to get over the hill.

Standing is, for most people, a short term thing. Few of us will be able to climb a long hill while standing (refer my above comment about heart rate). Generally, you're a lot better off choosing a lower gear and spinning up the hill, which is a real bugger if you've got the sort of rear cassette fitted to most bikes these days, bikes designed for wannabe racers (and yes, I know some of you are fit enough to use them).

Hills? You're better off getting your gearing right and ONLY increasing your bottom gear when you find you're not using it. This isn't a sexy suggestion so I expect people to howl me down. My current bike has an 11-36 at the rear and some Shimano standard at the front (probably 50-30). I sit and grind for all bar very short climbs... and any sensible person would describe me as a 'heavier rider'.

Experiment and do what works for you.

I think it depends on you and your bike. My steel bike has enough flex that I notice the difference standing. I rode a carbon frame, took a hill I am very accustomed to, stood and very different effects. I run 34:28 on the low end, and it is more than adequate. If I had more hills than we do (basically riding large old sinkholes around Gainesville Florida) I might re-think my gearing.

^This^

I love all the non-committal answers... Some do, some don"t. It depends on your bike. Do what works for you. :foo: :lol:

Did any of you guys read past the first sentence to where he said he is very heavy?

The fact is that a heavy guy will need to sit more.

Some of us climb seated, not because of weight but because of the terrain and surface. Standing can cause wheel slip on steep climbs over gravel and dirt. I mostly climb seated now and rarely stand.

Burning thighs are normal. As weight is lost and fitness gained it will subside a bit but never totally go away. That's part of cycling.


-Tim-

does it help to stand when climbing? yes it does

are you required to do it? no

you can walk up the hill if you want. OP asked does standing make a difference, and it does

Sit and spin. Being heavy is not conducive to standing on the pedals when climbing. You will use up too much energy and hit a wall. Ride more and the burning thighs will get tolerable and is normal for harder efforts.

Yep...I am OK with the burning in the thighs, for a wee while. Then it becomes intolerable!!!!


Thank you for the advice....for now, I'll sit and spin. Until I get more weight off. 40lbs dropped in 6 months. Another 40lbs to go!!!


.....I just really need to do hills:mad::mad:

Make sure that your saddle is not too low.

What I've heard and tend to believe for the most part is that standing involves a different set of muscles, and is less efficient, but the rider tends to have more power. Some riders develop the muscles used when standing more than others, so for some, standing allows them to get up the hill faster due to their individual muscle development.


For me, I stand for very short steep climbs, but mostly to break up the monotony of slogging up.


Congrats on the weight loss, that will make a huge difference - I'm down 15 pounds and it helps with climbing significantly.

Excellent!

I dropped 20 lb in 2.5 months, wasn't heavy but needed to get it off. It feels much better. There is a guy in my neighborhood who lost 100, said it completely changed his life.

You probably are but if not, consider working with a doctor. Too many stories of guys who lost weight but still had other problems which went undetected. Weight loss feels good but they thought they could run a marathon or something and the undetected problem bit them.

Glad to hear things are working for you. Post your success in the Training and Nutrition forum. There is a weight loss club thread in the stickies.


-Tim-

I, too, am a heavier guy (240 lbs.) and I find it hard to stand up and pedal. I think I used to do it as a kid but now on a real bike I don't know if it has to do with my larger size now, or just not confident enough. I can certainly stand up while coasting but haven't gotten confident standing & pedaling. That may be something I need to work on, sure could have used it this past Sunday.

Most experienced cyclists do both. Long story short:

- climbing in the saddle is more efficient biomechanically (you burn less energy for the same elevation gain / speed) but you can put out less max power
- climbing out of the saddle, you can put out more explosive power for steeper sections, or to accelerate uphill, but you burn more energy in the process.

Climbing out of the saddle is nice to stretch out your legs and use different muscle groups.

It is also personal preference. Some people can do long stints out of the saddle, while others prefer to be mostly seated. I wouldn't worry about it too much. But you might experiment with getting out of the saddle when your thighs are burning, and you might find it very enjoyable to stretch those legs and change the muscles. If you find it hard, practice on it, it is a good skill to have.

I think the point here is not efficiency, but simply using different set of muscles for a little while.

The OP is not complaining of being too winded, but of specific muscle fatigue.

So, ride out of the saddle for as long as it feels good. I would not avoid doing it, but don’t feel like you need to kill yourself in the process to meet some benchmark of time doing it.

I have a question, OP. When you are spinning up climbs, are you making sure to keep your cadence above 75-80RPM or so? You shouldn't have to move your upper body around to get enough torque on the pedals. If not, get some easier gears. Someone already said this but many bikes without triples come with pretty "macho" gears. I'm 140lbs and my 36/28 is hard to spin up 5%+ grades.

Also, is the burning only in your quads? How about your glutes or hamstrings? If it's just your quads, you may want to consider sliding your saddle back (note that this changes your effective saddle height, so verify that after). Also, when standing up, try putting some weight over your rear wheel and engaging your hams and glutes rather than your quads. It'll feel like a stairstepper and should reduce the burn.

Lots of good advice so far, but for me, practice made it better.

I used to feel burnt after 10 seconds of standing, but now I try to practice it, and it gets better.

Try to stand for 15, then 20, then 30seconds at a time...it really does help with conditioning and confidence when faced with a need to stand.

Still, most people of all sizes sit for most of most climbs, so if you do too, you're just normal.

sometimes, just for fun, if I'm really stoked, on a flattish paved rail trail, I'll try to ride out of the saddle for the 1st mile. don't know if I ever made it the full mile

more regularly, I try to get out of the saddle a few times during my rides here & there. if there's a long hill, I know I can't last so I sit & work. as I approach the upper portion, I might get out of the saddle to finish it off. if it's a steep dirt road crossing on a gravel road then I'll get out of the saddle to make the short steep climb

Pedaling out of the saddle, especially climbing, is an acquired skill.

In the beginning many use their oblique muscles too much to contract at the waist - pushing down on the pedal while pulling up on the opposite side of the bar/hood. Soreness in the side of the abdomen is a sure sign. My forearms used to ache from wrenching up on the hoods when I first started climbing on a 48x16 fixed gear bike.

Over time one builds strength and begins to do it in a more subtle way, shifting center of gravity slightly so that body weight pushes down the pedal while pulling more gently on the opposite hood, all while keeping higher cadence and more momentum.

It is a skill which is learned as much as it is helped by acquired strength to the point where one can stay out of the saddle longer without expending huge amounts of energy. Big ring climbing drills can help, paying particular attention to technique.


-Tim-

I don't think there's any one right way to get up a hill. Sit down, stand up, alternate, whatever gets you to the top. That said, very generally speaking, standing is for short bursts of power such as on rollers or, on a longer climb, a short steep pitch or switchback. Conversely, sitting is for longer sustained efforts.

I try to practice both. Normally, I would not stand for any longer than a minute. However, I have a local hill that typically takes me 4 minutes to climb. I will do repeats and alternate sitting and standing the whole way up. When I stand I am usually in a cog or two smaller and I try to develop a rhythm. I am usually on the hoods (or in the drops if I feel Marco-esque) and I will rock the the bike. Not as much as in a sprint, but a little just to get that rhythm. If you have foot retention, this is a good time to focus on pulling the pedal over the top.

Sitting, I'm trying to focus on being smooth, still, and relaxed upper body, with steady breathing. And smooth, high turnover of the pedals. Nice round, quick circles.

Work on squats, lunges and leg strengthening exercises at home. That's what I had to do to get better at climbing in or out of the saddle. Worked for me.

The problem with "HTFU on the bike!" advice is it's potentially dangerous. If you work the muscles to exhaustion -- which is necessary to make any progress -- you risk being off balance and falling on the road or being run over.

If you watch the GCN tutorials on HIIT, they demonstrate two or three of the presenters (usually Matt, Daniel and Simon) taking turns on maximum effort sprints/climbs, with the other one or two partners there to support the exhausted rider at the end of a maximum effort exercise. True HIIT is painful, exhausting, often to the point of being sickening and nauseating, and dangerous to try solo on the road.

You really need to work muscles to the point of quivering exhaustion to teach the body "This is what I expect" and the body will eventually respond "Okey dokey. I hate you. But okay."

The safest place to do that is off the bike, at home or in the gym.

Check out the Bowflex channel on YouTube. Lots of exercises that don't involve any apparatus. Most videos are 2-5 minutes, succinct, with proper ergonomics, and they aren't just ads for Bowflex. Here's a list of short lunge tutorials you can do at home.

part of making the hard Brooks saddle comfortable riding all day, is getting up, standing on the pedals , occasionally..

BTW, here's an entertaining video on riding fixed on climbs. CAUTION: Lots of cussing and rowdy humor. And rolling CBD dispensary humor.

Somehow State bikes managed to persuade Floyd Landis to ride a bike again, along with Dave Zabriskie. Fixed. On a very hilly route. So, plenty of demos of sitting and standing to climb. It looks painful in some places and they actually get off the bikes to walk at least once. If you watch his body language carefully you can see Floyd still suffers from some of that debilitating hip injury that forced his retirement (well, that, and the whole Tour de PED thing) So even ex-pros are human.

This video could only be more entertaining if they'd gotten Floyd and Lance to ride together. Just to see it end in an MMA fight in the middle of the highway. Pretty good workout in itself.

I'm 56 and have been commuting 9 miles each way in hilly Colorado Springs for 26 years. On my MTB-based commuter with higher top gearing and a low, low granny gear I sit and spin. On my old road bike with not-so-low gearing I'm out of the saddle much more. On my newer main commuter with gearing in between the two bikes, I find myself out of the saddle somewhat less.

On the MTB-based commuter I have never encountered a hill I couldn't spin up. On the other two bikes, when cadence drops to a certain point I hop off and walk.

My main concern these days is to not grind down my knees.