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Seeking wheel advice...

Old 05-30-18, 10:22 AM
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jojo314519
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Seeking wheel advice...

So I have a Mongoose Selous (mongoose.com/usa/selous-sport-20562) gravel bike.

This is my kind of do it all bike, I use it for some dirt road riding and the occasional road ride, but I also do some day trip touring. I have a rear rack with 2 pannier bags (14L each) that usually end up stuffed pretty full. The spokes keep coming loose and the hub skips from time to time (only ridden about 300 miles). I also weigh around 190.

I'm looking to replace the rear wheel with something a bit sturdier, but not super heavy duty. The stock wheel is 700C QR with 28 spokes and 23mm ID rim. The tires are 700x40c.

Looking at something like this - (niagaracycle.com/categories/wm-wtb-29-mtn-disc-rear-wheel-sx23-black-32h-m525-135mm) , but am not positive I understand all the sizing stuff.

Is this the same size? And will my stock tire fit? Should I be looking at 36 spokes?

Any other advice or tips? Thanks.

(sorry, i'm new so am not allowed to post url's, so please add www. in front)
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Old 05-30-18, 10:49 AM
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Have you had someone that is experienced with wheel building adjust the spokes? If you don't get them all correct, you will have trouble with some spokes.

The hub skipping needs to be narrowed down. The hub freebody itself skips? Or could it be the chain skipping over the cogs.

Without knowing why those things are happening, you can't really make an informed purchase. I myself, don't see anything significantly different in the two wheels. But you sound as if you put more abuse on them. I just stay on paved roads and paved trails. So someone that demands more of their wheels like you do will have to add their 2
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Old 05-30-18, 11:46 AM
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Get handbuilt ones.

I build my own wheels and try to get a fairly good hub (everything from exotics to dt240 to shimano slx).

Recepies for truly good wheels imo:

hubs: 32 hole hubs dt350/240 with optional 36 tooth internals and steel freehub, or on the cheap shimano slx hubs (you need to open up and pack these with good grease before use, like molycote, and put some motor oil in the mech, these needs servicing once a year).

rims: dt swiss or mavic only (the rest is crap in comparison). needs to have eyelets, needs to be welded and not pinned nor sleeved. Personally I use the all black dt tk540s in the rear and xr400s up front on my 700c/29er comuters. on my 26er i use the downhill/enduro/xc welded versions (like a 400g up front and a 500g in the rear and another set with a 500g up front and a 600g in the rear. g as in gram. a weight ***t.

spokes: dt competition 2,0-1,8-2,0mm, silver.

nipples: dt swiss blackened brass, regular type (i like 12mm and feel these are the best).

this will build a very strong and durable wheel. I have never ever thought about going below 32 spokes. i know better. I'm guessing and expecting all of my builds will last until the ***verse turns cold, in about 64 trillion years or so.

I have never trued any of my wheels and they are all as true and rounds as they day I built them. I did however do all the stress relieving needed during the builds. and built with grease in the threads, no thread locker. look up mike t's wheel building guide Wheels . I also used https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/ to measure (read the guides) and calculate.

Last edited by carlos danger; 05-30-18 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 05-30-18, 04:00 PM
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look for 36 spoke wheels , esp the rear. for the weight handling,,
good prices at bike shops ordering built spoked wheels from their distributors.
As all the components in the wheels are further up in the supply chain.
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Old 05-30-18, 05:20 PM
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Carlos danger, I agree with nearly all you put down for building a superior wheel set. DT hubs are simply the best I have worked with. Mavic rims are super quality, even the low end Open Sport rim. Of course DT spokes reign supreme, and have for decades. Personal builds include every major brand hub and rim out there and many no longer around. Never do I use spoke freeze on my own wheels, however I have used it on customer wheels when requested. Instead of grease, Phils Tenacious oil is applied to the nipple seats and spoke threads. 32 hole is minimum for durability from the seat I sit in, however all my bikes are 36 or 40 because I don't want to mess with wheel problems. I just ride 'em.

Durable and light weight are not compatible with each other. One neat trick I use is on my daily rider. Frame spaced to 130, axle spaced to 130, however the hub is a 1986 Record hub originally spaced at 126. Using the wider axle spacing the spoke tension on both sides of the rear wheel is equal. Perfection found.
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Old 06-04-18, 06:24 AM
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jojo314519
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Thanks for the tips everyone.
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Old 06-04-18, 07:12 AM
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Interesting how things have moved on. My first proper bike came with tubular rims and was drilled for 32 spokes on the front and 40 on the rear. Rims back then were not that strong and I remember replacing them a few times in their lifetime. Now you're talking about 36 spokes for a strong wheel, and lightweight wheels will have far less and yet last far longer. I now have Ksyrium Elite wheels with a mere 18 spokes on the front and 20 on the rear. These have done at least 10,000 miles (I think its actually about twice that) and haven't even needed truing, even after a couple of moderate impacts.
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Old 06-04-18, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
Interesting how things have moved on. My first proper bike came with tubular rims and was drilled for 32 spokes on the front and 40 on the rear. Rims back then were not that strong and I remember replacing them a few times in their lifetime. Now you're talking about 36 spokes for a strong wheel, and lightweight wheels will have far less and yet last far longer. I now have Ksyrium Elite wheels with a mere 18 spokes on the front and 20 on the rear. These have done at least 10,000 miles (I think its actually about twice that) and haven't even needed truing, even after a couple of moderate impacts.
I think that there's more to it than just counting spokes. you have to evaluate the wheel as a whole. I think that deeper section rims are the most significant factor in modern bicycle wheel engineering.
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Old 06-04-18, 11:09 AM
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I have 40 year old 36 spoke wheels I built in the mid 70's that are still fine..

Bike marketing is pushing low spoke count wheels . now.

But, do as you see fit ..
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Old 06-05-18, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
I think that there's more to it than just counting spokes.
Yes, I don't disagree. Obviously you can't reduce the spoke count without making the rim stronger. I was simply using it as an illustration of the way things have moved on. There are so many areas where bikes are better than ever. Back in the 70's we had what were laughingly called '10 gears'. This might have been technically correct but since my chainset was 48 and 52 teeth I probably had at most six or seven useful ratios. Now look at us - 22 gears with a much smaller overlap. I remember riding an early aluminium bike which flexed like a ripe banana. Now we can build good bikes from all sorts of materials. I even met someone the other day whose bike was a composite of bamboo.
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Old 06-05-18, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
Yes, I don't disagree. Obviously you can't reduce the spoke count without making the rim stronger. I was simply using it as an illustration of the way things have moved on. There are so many areas where bikes are better than ever. Back in the 70's we had what were laughingly called '10 gears'. This might have been technically correct but since my chainset was 48 and 52 teeth I probably had at most six or seven useful ratios. Now look at us - 22 gears with a much smaller overlap. I remember riding an early aluminium bike which flexed like a ripe banana. Now we can build good bikes from all sorts of materials. I even met someone the other day whose bike was a composite of bamboo.
Absolutely right!

Your 58/48 crankset had half step gearing. The idea was, that to squeeze the most ratios our of a 2 X 5 to keep the steps between gears tight, you'd make a front shift between each rear shift. Some guys would tape the ratios to their handlebar to help them keep track of which gear to shift next. Every once in a while we still get a poster extolling the merits of half step gearing even though we now have 10 cogs on the back. I suppose there must be a smart phone app for that now because there isn't room to tape all those ratios on your handlebar.
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Old 06-05-18, 07:31 AM
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I always wondered what the logic was. Personally I would rather have had a big gap to maximise the number of gears. Having said that I'm currently running a 12-23 9-speed cassette to minimise the gap between ratios.
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