robertj298 

Seems like the best cars and fishing reels are made in Japan. How about bicycles?

fietsbob

You willing to go hand made frames , and pay the price to do so?

Shimano makes fishing reels , But, their bike component manufacturing is spread far and wide across SE Asia.

Depending on price ...





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Jon T

Are they better quality than what/who?
Jon

DIMcyclist

Exactly: in comparison to ... what?

And during which era? And custom or mass-produced?

They've had really great periods as an industry, with some brilliant designers; and they have their share of the highest quality custom builders as well.

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Witterings

I think it's just a general question rather than specifics. The OP's only just joined the forum with a total of 5 posts, I'd imagine he's relatively new to cycling or just starting and isn't familiar with the main manufacturers and what their origins are and wisely is doing some background research to steer him in the right direction.

If that is the case I think it's a very logical question as they generally have a reputation for providing higher quality goods than a lot of what comes out of say China, you can also throw motorcycles, cameras, electrical goods / tvs' / calculators and lawn mowers in there as well ... shame they don't make more widely available bikes.

DIMcyclist

And I think @Jon T's reply was also quite logical. Here's why...

For the sake of discussion, let's compare two Japanese bikes with two Italian bikes...

First up, let's compare a student-grade Atami cruiser to a custom-ordered De Rosa Professional. The Atami, while a reasonably fun neighborhood ride, is sort of a nothing with regard to the De Rosa; it's not even in the same league in almost every possible way you could compare them. If you were to take the Atami as representative of all Japanese bikes, it would come up lacking relative to classic Italian racing bikes, as well as do a disservice to many great Japanese frame-makers. On the other hand...

Let's now compare a Kalavinka Super Exhibition to... I dunno, say- an an early 1970s Colnago condorino (yes, Colnago actually made a few city bikes, once upon a time). The situation with the Atami becomes reversed, and you'd never have an inkling of the glories of a high-end Colnago racing frame.

So: in comparison to what, and when? Regardless of its intention, the OP's question is too broad for any less general answer.

I'd suggest maybe looking up Sheldon Brown's article on 'Japanese bikes in the U.S. market' for starters, then looking up some of the brands & builders mentioned therein via posts about them in the C&V forum.

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Mountain Mitch

fietsbob

But now the big OEM multi brand companies most come from are on Taiwan , the UJB was in the 80s,
then Yen-dollar costs rose, and Giant and Merida beat their costs and vastly grew,
by being who made bikes for others.





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rydabent

Not always true at all. Want to talk about killer air bags.

Iride01 

I can't begin to compare the best because I've never ridden or been exposed to the best. Likewise for the worst. However I know that there are bad and good bikes made everywhere. Doesn't matter what country it is.

Japan had been making fine examples of bikes even in the 70's, maybe before. As well they also made some pretty lousy bikes too. Just like every other country.

2_i 

In terms of quantity presumably most of the Japanese bikes are produced for domestic market and sold at their supermarkets. Those bikes are clunky like bikes sold anywhere else at supermarkets, though presumably are a tad more practical. There is a spread in type and quality of bikes produced in practically any country active in the area.

ramzilla

Yes, Japan produced some of the finest mass produced bikes ever made for a brief period in the mid 1980's. Then, it was off to Taiwan & the robots in the 90's. Look for a mid 80's Shogun Samurai or Centurion Ironman. Built with Tange 1 tubing these bikes were in a class of their own. They compared with the finest offerings from Italy at about 1/2 the price.

robertj298 

I'm curious, are these domestic market Japanese bikes actually made in Japan or contracted out to other countries?

2_i 

The dominant manufacturers are Bridgestone, Panasonic and Yamaha. The bikes, generally named mamachari, are ultimately tailored to the everyday life in Japan. I think they get to be produced in Japan, though I suspect that there may be some cheapo brands supplied from elsewhere in Asia. There may be also some export in the other direction, again to Asia and to Africa from what I know, used in similar manner as in Japan. The benefits of mamachari, as well as prospects for their export, are e.g. discussed here. Some unique features of those bikes include type of rear wheel kickstand, hub brakes, no or limited gears, 'wrong-side' mount for block dynamo, integrated lock, that can make marketing of these bike to other markets than Japan challenging without resetting the production goals. I.e. once you produced them somewhere you would be still shipping them back just to Japan, maybe reducing incentive to move the production - still I do not know this for sure. In the same manner I doubt that Dutch bikes get produced in serious numbers somewhere else than the Netherlands.

Hiro11

Most "Japanese" brands are made by subcontractors in Taiwan or China these days, just like everyone else. The quality is likely comparable to any other maker.

1980-1990 Japanese-made steel frames were excellent value for money. Miyata, Fuji, Univega, Bridgestone, Centurion etc all sold excellent quality steel frames back then. My first racing bike was a 1988 Miyata 914 that had a beautifully made lugged and triple butted frame. Admittedly, I think it was a $700 bike which was not cheap back then.

Dirt Farmer

Poke around here for a few days and then report back....

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/

robertj298 

The fishing reel industry seems to have followed the same pattern. Back during that time period the best reels in the world were made in Japan
and still are but at a much higher price point. Most of the Japanese reel companies contract out to other countries.

cyccommute 

Depends on the reel. For spin casters (aka "bait dunkers"), maybe. I wouldn't know because I don't dunk bait. But for fly reels you won't find many better than those made here in the US.

That would depend too. Back in the 80s and 90s, Japanese bikes ranged from good stuff to bad stuff. None of it was really exceptional, however. Italian bikes were where it was at but they were kind of quirky. And when it came to mountain bikes, it was American all the way! In some respects, depending on the manufacturer, American bikes are still damned nice. I have 4 US built frames (2 Deans, a Moots and a Cannondale) that are of far better quality than any Japanese bike I've ever owned.

Witterings

Maybe they impose far more stringent QC on who they farm it out and it forms part of the contract and if they aren't prepared to abide by it they get canned ... just a thought

Be interesting to know where say Nikon / Cannon cameras or any of their other well know products are actually made.

DIMcyclist

Maybe so with mass-produced bikes (say, those built by Kuwahara), but custom makers like Toei, Cherubim, and Nagasawa (who, I might add apprenticed as a framebuilder under Ugo De Rosa) have always been exceptional. Some Japanese marques (notably Katakura Silk & Panasonic) had in-house custom shops that produced very high end bikes to order.

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gator@2185

I owned a Maruishi Emperor at one time Yes it was lugged and triple butted frame which by today's standards made it heavy It was the first bike I used to get back into bicycling I learned the fundamentals of shifting gearing and precise riding Overall I the build quality was excellent.

bikemig 

Exceptional compared to what? Custom builders and small shops? Really? The Japenese made excellent mass produced bikes that can stand up against any other large scale manufacturer. If you want to compare apples to apples, it is tough--if not impossible--to beat what the Japanese bike industry was doing during its heyday.

Lazyass

Japan makes some cool bikes you can't buy here. Most don't know that Bridgestone still makes bikes.

DIMcyclist

Yup. Bridgestone still makes bikes, under both their own & the Anchor brands, and you can still order high-end lugged steel Panasonics. Check out the ORC-14 sometime; it's an awesome frame, and can be ordered (like a Waterford) with any number of semi-custom features and paint & decal options.

And as far as vintage bikes go, let's not forget the Lotus (Tsunoda) frames designed by Cinelli back in the mid-1980s.

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cyccommute 

Puch, Peugeot, Motobecane, Trek, Schwinn and Cannondale were all making mass produced bikes of the same quality. Granted some of them were made in Japan but many were not. Many of the Treks and Cannondales of the "heyday" of Japanese bikes were made in the US. Many Schwinns were too.

And not a insignificant number of those "Japanese" bikes were made by Giant in Taiwan. Many Schwinns came from there too.