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Help convincing my parents to let me go on a bike tour

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Help convincing my parents to let me go on a bike tour

Old 06-20-18, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
Because the First Amendment gives you the guarantee that the Government, not individuals, cannot suppress your freedom of speech.

I have the right to say what I want without recourse from any governmental body. I do not have the right to say as I wish without recourse from family, my employer, and affiliated organizations, etc.
I don't believe I've included the words "without recourse" in any of my statements.
You have the right to free speech (generally). This does not mean what you say will be without consequences.
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Old 06-20-18, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile
You have the right to free speech (generally). This does not mean what you say will be without consequences.
Then it's not much of a right, at least in some cases. For example, if I exercise my so-called right to tell the president of my employer where to stick it I'll get fired. Something that cannot be exercised without significant consequences isn't much of a right, if it is at all. It's more like an ability.
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Old 06-20-18, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile
I don't believe I've included the words "without recourse" in any of my statements.
You have the right to free speech (generally). This does not mean what you say will be without consequences.
The whole point is that the 1A does not give you any right to free speech, outside of prohibiting government interference or reprecussions. Your original statement was that it provided him the free speech to say what he wants to his dad. It doesn't apply in that situation.

It is just a common misconception people like to correct, because it is often misused.
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Old 06-20-18, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
The whole point is that the 1A does not give you any right to free speech, outside of prohibiting government interference or reprecussions. Your original statement was that it provided him the free speech to say what he wants to his dad. It doesn't apply in that situation.
No, my original statement was that it give us the free speech to say what we want to him. I'm quite certain that does apply.
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Old 06-20-18, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile
No, my original statement was that it give us the free speech to say what we want to him. I'm quite certain that does apply.
If you mean it WRT the inability of being fined, imprisoned, or otherwise censored by the government, yes.
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Old 06-20-18, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
If you mean it WRT the inability of being fined, imprisoned, or otherwise censored by the government, yes.
Google "rights definition".
You'll get:
a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way.

So yes, if you have the legal entitlement to say something, it is a right.
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Old 06-20-18, 01:41 PM
  #57  
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jRyles,

As you get older and experience more of life's lessons, you'll find that many things you think may be problems don't end up being problems. Have patience, and don't fight battles until you need to. Worry about this issue in 2.5 years. Also, research some group rides that are sponsored/supervised. When the time comes, having a clear plan with an organized ride with many riders may be more palatable to your folks.

Patience is s sign of maturity. If you don't have patience to let this matter lay dormant for a while - you probably are too immature to do a bike tour! If you can master yourself, and chillax about this for a couple of years, then your parents may note this maturity.

Until then, find a good bike for the type of riding you like and practice and get exercise near your home.
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Old 06-20-18, 02:09 PM
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I'll bet the OP is getting a kick out of reading the responses.
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Old 06-20-18, 02:14 PM
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First Amendment - Religion and Expression. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I don't think there is any room for misunderstanding here...
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Old 06-20-18, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GerryinHouston
I don't think there is any room for misunderstanding here...
Held applicable to state governments by the U.S. Supreme Court in, if I recall correctly, 1954.
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Old 06-20-18, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
I'll bet the OP is getting a kick out of reading the responses.
He's been absent since starting a storm in a tea cup so either he's:

A: Genuine and as a young kid is overwhelmed with the response and doesn't quite know what to say

B: A young kid who thought everybody would just back up what he wanted and didn't realise this forum possibly has more "older" people who have kids of their own but didn't go in line with what he wanted to hear despite the fact there have been many good suggestions of how to handle a situation.

C: A young kid who is a complete rebel and does WTF he wants and couldn't give a S.*t about his totally unreasonable parents who want to forbid him from smoking, skipping college and doing drugs and alcohol and nicking cars ... but in which case this actually comes back to the parents anyway.

D: A troll

Maybe we should vote on it
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Old 06-20-18, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
I'll bet the OP is getting a kick out of reading the responses.
Or getting his butt kicked because his dad found out he was plotting against him with internet strangers
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Old 06-20-18, 05:04 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Witterings
He's been absent since starting a storm in a tea cup so either he's:

A: Genuine and as a young kid is overwhelmed with the response and doesn't quite know what to say

B: A young kid who thought everybody would just back up what he wanted and didn't realise this forum possibly has more "older" people who have kids of their own but didn't go in line with what he wanted to hear despite the fact there have been many good suggestions of how to handle a situation.

C: A young kid who is a complete rebel and does WTF he wants and couldn't give a S.*t about his totally unreasonable parents who want to forbid him from smoking, skipping college and doing drugs and alcohol and nicking cars ... but in which case this actually comes back to the parents anyway.

D: A troll

Maybe we should vote on it
I vote that Choice A, B, C, and/or D are preferable options to Bible Thumping posters spouting off about inviolable Commandments and attempting to shut down a thread for offending his notion of Eternal Truth.
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Old 06-20-18, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile
How do you figure? Are you saying that free speech is not a right in the USA?
I'm saying the First Amendment to the US Constitution proscribes government restrictions on an individual's speech. It says nothing about your employer restricting it, your parents restricting it, or Bike Forums moderators restricting it.

Get it?

I didn't think so.

If not, try the following experiment: The US Supreme Court ruled that the First Amendment protected the American NAZI Party's freedom to speak and hold a rally in Skokie, Ill. If you believe the same First Amendment protection extends to the workplace, try holding such a rally at your place of employment and see what happens.

Last edited by Cyclist0108; 06-20-18 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 06-20-18, 06:05 PM
  #65  
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Wow did this thread get into the weeds.

For the OP. Do a safe tour like the Great Allegheny Passage / C&O or the Katy. For a shorter trip there is the Greenbrier. and a few others. You will be happy. Your parents will be happy. Show you can be responsible for yourself and they will agree to let you go on more adventurous tours.

IMHO The Selkirk Loop north of Spokane is a very safe road tour. Not many cars at all. a bunch of logging trucks but just don't tell your parents.
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Old 06-20-18, 11:42 PM
  #66  
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I started going on bike tours when I was 13. I lived in Southern California at the time, there was lots of traffic, but it never bothered me or the other riders. Over the course of hundreds of group rides and many tours, I have never seen an accident involving a rider and a car, though I have seen countless crashes between riders. However, in nearly every case, no one was hurt enough that they couldn't continue the ride.

One good thing about cycling (at least when I started) is that cyclists had a little more class than people who practiced many other sports. Drugs, alcohol abuse, and other problems were quite rare among cyclists. To many riders, cycling has it's own drug-like effects, without the dangerous health side effects, cost, and risk of arrest.

A person your age is safer on a bicycle than behind the wheel of a car.
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Old 06-21-18, 04:48 AM
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Once you are 18 and out of the house you can do what you please. I am 52, still don’t do everything I want as I have a wife to consider. Life is as much about our dream list as what we are able to do in the present.
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Old 06-21-18, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Witterings
He's been absent since starting a storm in a tea cup
Checked his activity. He was on BF almost exactly 24 hrs. after making the OP.
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Old 06-21-18, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by wgscott
I'm saying the First Amendment to the US Constitution proscribes government restrictions on an individual's speech. It says nothing about your employer restricting it, your parents restricting it, or Bike Forums moderators restricting it.

Get it?

I didn't think so.

If not, try the following experiment: The US Supreme Court ruled that the First Amendment protected the American NAZI Party's freedom to speak and hold a rally in Skokie, Ill. If you believe the same First Amendment protection extends to the workplace, try holding such a rally at your place of employment and see what happens.
I don't believe the same First Amendment protection extends to the workplace. I've never said otherwise. It's still a right. Again:

a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way.
The problem is that you don't understand the definition of a right.
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Old 06-21-18, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
Or getting his butt kicked because his dad found out he was plotting against him with internet strangers
Especially if his dad is TimothyH.
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Old 06-21-18, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by OBoile
The problem is that you don't understand the definition of a right.
The problem is that you said it was a First Amendment right. It is not.

Originally Posted by OBoile
I'm also fairly certain the first amendment gives him the right to say something that contradicts what the parents said if he so chooses.
No. The First Amendment does not give him that right.

The problem is that you refuse to understand what the First Amendment actually says, and you want to pretend the problem is instead with the other people who can't grasp what the definition of a right is.

As wrong-headed as you may believe TimothyH to be, his position is entirely consistent with the First Amendment right to free speech.

Last edited by Cyclist0108; 06-21-18 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 06-21-18, 07:52 AM
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OP's last activity is shown as occurring at 12:47 a.m. this morning.
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Old 06-21-18, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wgscott
The problem is that you said it was a First Amendment right. It is not.



No. The First Amendment does not give him that right.

The problem is that you refuse to understand what the First Amendment actually says, and you want to pretend the problem is instead with the other people who can't grasp what the definition of a right is.

As wrong-headed as you may believe TimothyH to be, his position is entirely consistent with the First Amendment right to free speech.
I understand exactly what the First Amendment says. Why can't you understand the definition of a right?
You seem to think that having the right to do something means you can do it with no repercussions. That is not the case.

Furthermore, by your (incorrect) understanding, TimothyH's statement would be false since you don't believe he has the right to free speech.
A father's right to tell his 15 year old son what he can and cannot do is sacrosanct.
Now you're just contradicting yourself. How is it you feel he has the right to tell his son whatever he wants while I don't have the right to tell his son whatever I want?
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Old 06-21-18, 09:09 AM
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I'm saying the First Amendment is absolutely irrelevant to what goes on between members of a family.

Jefnvk said it very clearly:

Originally Posted by jefnvk
Because the First Amendment gives you the guarantee that the Government, not individuals, cannot suppress your freedom of speech.

I have the right to say what I want without recourse from any governmental body. I do not have the right to say as I wish without recourse from family, my employer, and affiliated organizations, etc.
This isn't rocket surgery.
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Old 06-21-18, 09:48 AM
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It doesn't even give you the right to say what you want without governmental recourse. There are lots of things someone could say that is going to get them sideways with the government.
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