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Pepper Spray recommendations

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Old 07-08-18, 04:27 PM
  #101  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
They would have trained the dogs to act in such a way and in case you hadn't noticed slavery's been banned for quite a few years now so probably not too many of those dogs still around.

Funny how so many people assume every dog's a vicious killer and their sole purpose is to rip your throat out even if they're just running up to you to play.
My point was that dogs' instinctive pack hunting behavior can end up being targeted at people. If you're riding out in the country and more than one dog is approaching me closely, I don't have time to figure out if they even have owners, or if the owner is maybe a crazy paranoid person. Are you actually denying that dogs sometimes attack and maul people? Am I really going to have to post links?

I don't know about you, but I love dogs and have been around them all my life. I'm fairly confident that I can tell the difference between a dog that's running up to play and one that wants to hurt me. Neither happens very often when I am on my bike, but dogs have body language and sounds that make the difference obvious, even at speed in real time.

To be clear, I don't carry spray or any other weapon. I might not be able to outrun the dog, but I have a better chance of that if I am not fumbling around for an object that I probably wouldn't even look at more than a couple times a decade.
People ride in all kinds of places in this country, and animal control can be really bad in some places. I'm not going to judge someone for believing they need some chemical protection if it isn't something that will do permanent damage to the dog. They know their local conditions better than I do.

Last edited by livedarklions; 07-08-18 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 07-08-18, 06:04 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
This thread has lost all connection to reality.

To answer the OP's question, if he is still around, the best pepper spray is Sabre Red Pepper Gel in the tactical canister.

https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spra...p-belt-holster

-Tim-
+1
Iíve had dogs all my life (44 yrs old); growing up, my father trained K9 for local police and DEA. An attacking dog should NEVER be considered predictable ... stop your bike and deploy the spray. Period.
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Old 07-08-18, 07:12 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
They would have trained the dogs to act in such a way and in case you hadn't noticed slavery's been banned for quite a few years now so probably not too many of those dogs still around.

Funny how so many people assume every dog's a vicious killer and their sole purpose is to rip your throat out even if they're just running up to you to play.
At the same time, both the law and animal control agencies in the US recognize such a thing as a "vicious" dog.

The conditions under which a dog is considered vicious are clearly defined by municipalities and the owner of a dog deemed vicious has a higher level of responsibility to control the dog than do owners of dogs without the label.

There is a vicious dog on one of my routes. Animal control had determined that it is vicious and the owner is under court order to keep the dog restrained. Growing up my friend had a dog that would kill neighborhood cats. This scared the crud out of parents who made a big commotion. Sometimes it is the result of inbreeding.

My point is that vicious dogs exist. No one is out thinking a vicious dog and no amount of understanding dog behavior or speaking sternly is going to stop it from being vicious.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 07-08-18 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 07-09-18, 12:25 AM
  #104  
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I would think drivers are far more of a hazard than dogs and cause way more accidents. Dogs actually attacking cyclists are a rarity, and dogs killing cyclists even more so.

Given rabies exists in your country, that would be my major concern if bitten. Do people get vaccinated in the US, now a vaccine exists? I’ll be getting the shots before my next trip to Asia.
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Old 07-09-18, 08:33 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
You know that southern plantations and prisons used to let packs of tracking dogs maul and kill the escaping slaves and prisoners, right?

I'm finding it fascinating that people just assume all dogs are cute little harmless pooches who would never really hurt people.
Who has said they are "cute little harmless pooches"? But neither are they out to kill humans. We humans won't allow a dog that is a threat to humans exist for very long.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
To be clear, I don't carry spray or any other weapon. I might not be able to outrun the dog, but I have a better chance of that if I am not fumbling around for an object that I probably wouldn't even look at more than a couple times a decade.
You've hit the nail on the head. The mistake that most people make with dogs is either that they can outrun them or they have to outrun them. The other mistake they make is thinking that they can take out a canister, aim it, and spray it accurately while trying to outrun a dog without ever having practiced said action. And some around here are suggesting that you do it with a stream spray that requires far more accuracy than fog type sprays.

At the very least, a bicyclist that is going to use a pepper spray should stop, get off the bike and place the bike between them and the dog. But that will stop the dog from chasing the bicyclist in the first place in my experience.

Originally Posted by Whib View Post


+1
Iíve had dogs all my life (44 yrs old); growing up, my father trained K9 for local police and DEA. An attacking dog should NEVER be considered predictable ... stop your bike and deploy the spray. Period.
Again, no now has said that an attacking dog is predictable. But they do follow fairly regular patterns such as not chasing something that isn't running or being very wary of "prey" that has the ability to fight back just like most any predator. They don't want to fight for their food because if they get injured, they can become food.

Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
At the same time, both the law and animal control agencies in the US recognize such a thing as a "vicious" dog.
Yes. And there are legal remedies...either criminal or civil...that are used when a dog is deemed "vicious".

Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
The conditions under which a dog is considered vicious are clearly defined by municipalities and the owner of a dog deemed vicious has a higher level of responsibility to control the dog than do owners of dogs without the label.

There is a vicious dog on one of my routes. Animal control had determined that it is vicious and the owner is under court order to keep the dog restrained.
Case in point. And there is "a" vicious dog on your route under court order. You have been implying that there are dozens of them.

Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
My point is that vicious dogs exist. No one is out thinking a vicious dog and no amount of understanding dog behavior or speaking sternly is going to stop it from being vicious.


-Tim-
No one has said that "all dogs" are friendly. Of course there are vicious dogs and there are legal remedies to use if you run across one. However, even the most vicious dog has a human that is the head of their pack and they respond to that human. Understanding dog behavior goes a long way toward not getting attacked by one. First and foremost, don't try to outrun one. Even if you have pepper spray and you feel like you should "fight for your life", you should stop to do so. Not understanding dog behavior isn't a better way of dealing with dogs.

Start with a loud, deep stern voice and work your way up. It a lot better than waiting until the dog has latched onto your heel.
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Old 07-09-18, 08:37 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Who has said they are "cute little harmless pooches"? But neither are they out to kill humans. We humans won't allow a dog that is a threat to humans exist for very long.

No one has said that "all dogs" are friendly. Of course there are vicious dogs and there are legal remedies to use if you run across one. However, even the most vicious dog has a human that is the head of their pack and they respond to that human. Understanding dog behavior goes a long way toward not getting attacked by one. First and foremost, don't try to outrun one. Even if you have pepper spray and you feel like you should "fight for your life", you should stop to do so. Not understanding dog behavior isn't a better way of dealing with dogs.

Start with a loud, deep stern voice and work your way up. It a lot better than waiting until the dog has latched onto your heel.
qft
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Old 07-09-18, 10:08 AM
  #107  
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Would deem a waste of good Jalapeno pepper hot sauce , but a squirt of that in the eyes is effective ..
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Old 07-09-18, 10:28 AM
  #108  
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Every situation is different. Dogs' behavior has been selectively modified for different purposes by humans, so there is no single set of dog behaviors that you can attribute to an oncoming dog, and that's even before you consider the possibility of rabies. Riders also have different sets of skills and ride in places with drastically different conditions.

I've only been chased by dogs a few times, and in none of those situations would stopping have been a good option. A couple of times, I've had dogs lunge at me from behind something as I pass. In those situations, you're already engaged before you realize what's going on. Automatic flight or fight responses are going to govern my behavior. My recollection is I've been charged from the right, my body has already turned the bike very rapidly to the left before I even am aware conciously that it's a dog. That has caused the dog's lunge to miss, and the couple of times this has happened to me, a significant enough distance has opened up between me and the dog that I judged that stopping would be a far worse risk than running.
'The other situations I've been in have invoved dogs running at me from behind and closing to about 10 feet behind me or so, and then not being able to get closer. Now, I suppose it is possible that there might be a dog somewhere that knows how to reserve energy for a final lunge, but every dog I've ever seen starts with its fastest speed then wears down. In those sitations, the dog has given up after a quarter mile or so. I don't see any possible advantage to me of stopping.

I'm a fairly fast rider, and my accelleration skills are really good. These have always been road situations. On dirt, I'd probably never try to outrun a dog, but the situations I've been in with my particular skill set have made out-running by far the best option. Not a big fan of rules for dealing with unique situations that start with "never" or "always".

I've also been chased by dogs in neighborhoods where stopping for any reason wasn't a good idea, but I was a young foolish person back then instead of the old foolish person I am now.
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Old 07-09-18, 01:00 PM
  #109  
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I've been using Sabre Pepper Gel for several years now. The runner version is nice. I wear it above my watch on my left arm for road, mountain and gravel rides. In an emergency, It's easy to grab with right hand while steering with left hand.

https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spra...ble-hand-strap
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Old 07-09-18, 01:43 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Every situation is different. Dogs' behavior has been selectively modified for different purposes by humans, so there is no single set of dog behaviors that you can attribute to an oncoming dog, and that's even before you consider the possibility of rabies. Riders also have different sets of skills and ride in places with drastically different conditions.
...

I'm a fairly fast rider, and my accelleration skills are really good. These have always been road situations. On dirt, I'd probably never try to outrun a dog, but the situations I've been in with my particular skill set have made out-running by far the best option. Not a big fan of rules for dealing with unique situations that start with "never" or "always".

I've also been chased by dogs in neighborhoods where stopping for any reason wasn't a good idea, but I was a young foolish person back then instead of the old foolish person I am now.
Your comment is just another case of "'never' or 'always'". But we can make predictions about dog behavior because having a dog in your house that is unpredictable is a recipe for disaster. Dogs aren't lions or bears or crocodiles. We have long experience...in excess of 20,000 years...with dogs. Those "modifications" we have done to them in that time frame have all had one common thread...to make an animal that is tacitly a predator with the abilities and nature of any predator into something that doesn't look at us as prey. With the exception of some feral dogs, all dogs have a human in their lives that they respond to as a pack leader.

Additionally, I don't tell people "never" or "always". Being dominant to a dog that I don't know or don't know their intentions is the first step in a multistep process. It is usually enough. Escalating upwards may be necessary but that is determined by the situation. However, if I have to escalate to the further steps, I don't suggest doing it from the saddle of a bicycle or with my back turned towards the dog. Even if you have to use pepper spray, it's not something to do while looking backwards and traveling forwards. If you do crash and the dog is bent on attacking you, where would you be then?
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Old 07-09-18, 01:45 PM
  #111  
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I carry bear spray on every ride. I've used it several times on dogs that get within range, which is 15-20 feet. I'm not interested in guessing the dog's intentions, or hoping its owner has the dog's rabies vaccination up to date. The spray deploys as a fog, and to date, has stopped each dog in its tracks. I don't believe that the dog suffers permanent damage, but if it does, I'm okay with that. I'm not okay with crashing because of a dog running under my front wheel or because I'm kicking the dog in the face to try to make it back off. I hate effing dogs and their stupid owners who don't keep them on their own property.
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Old 07-09-18, 01:50 PM
  #112  
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I'll be honest, the thought of worrying about dogs and/or carrying pepper spray has never crossed my mind before reading about it here.
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Old 07-09-18, 01:56 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
A fogger will spray you and everyone around you. The atomized mist will blow in the wind and contaminate your bike, clothing and anything else it touches including any rider behind you. Foggers are not appropriate for a bike. Go ahead and try it if you don't believe me.
Did I used to ride with you on club nights?


Seriously....some years back we had a dog issue on a part of our ride. One of the guys thought it would be a good idea to bring pepper spray (or similar product made for dogs). I can only assume gel didn't exist then (I just learned about it in this thread), or the guy didn't think/care enough about the possibilities. The group was cruising along at a good clip and here comes dog, out come spray blinding the rider directly behind, causing a wreck that broke one fellows collar bone and another of the riders still has a droopy ear from broken cartilage.

In respect to the issue. I hate little dogs, and packs of dogs worse. The little dog in the neighborhood is right there under my wheels yapping away. Get out in the country a few places 'roun here and there are packs that will come out. That is darned scary.
For the most part I generally try to stop if it's single dog, firm no/go home. I have been lucky enough not to be on the wrong side of serious from a four legged animal anyway.

Worse than dog on your bike? Dog while on your trike.....face level teeth, no fun.
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Old 07-09-18, 02:04 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I'll be honest, the thought of worrying about dogs and/or carrying pepper spray has never crossed my mind before reading about it here.

I think it's one of those things where the local conditions vary like crazy. I really don't encounter this problem now that I'm in New England. I saw a lot of crazy loose dogs when I lived in New Orleans, and more than a few decades ago in Minnesota.

Generally, I think urban animal control is a lot stricter now than it was when I was a kid and in my 20s, but it can vary like mad in rural areas.
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Old 07-09-18, 02:08 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I'll be honest, the thought of worrying about dogs and/or carrying pepper spray has never crossed my mind before reading about it here.
I didn't either until I was chased by aggressive dogs on rail trails and road routes.
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Old 07-09-18, 02:25 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Those "modifications" we have done to them in that time frame have all had one common thread...to make an animal that is tacitly a predator with the abilities and nature of any predator into something that doesn't look at us as prey. With the exception of some feral dogs, all dogs have a human in their lives that they respond to as a pack leader.
This is where you get into trouble--some people breed and train dogs to be mean to other humans. There are bad human "pack leaders" who train their dogs to treat other people quite badly. These people are not uniformly distributed accross the country, but they do exist. Also, if you're riding in some rural areas, there's a reasonable possibility that that charging dog IS feral.

Like all other methods, your method works unless it doesn't. I've just never been in a situation where there would have been an upside to stopping, and so far riding like a bat out of hell has worked for me.
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Old 07-09-18, 02:56 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Also, if you're riding in some rural areas, there's a reasonable possibility that that charging dog IS feral.
Feral dogs are not a problem where I live but inbred dogs can have nasty temperaments.

It is bound to happen with a group of dogs left to run around on a farm.


-Tim-
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Old 07-09-18, 03:08 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
Did I used to ride with you on club nights?


Seriously....some years back we had a dog issue on a part of our ride. One of the guys thought it would be a good idea to bring pepper spray (or similar product made for dogs). I can only assume gel didn't exist then (I just learned about it in this thread), or the guy didn't think/care enough about the possibilities. The group was cruising along at a good clip and here comes dog, out come spray blinding the rider directly behind, causing a wreck that broke one fellows collar bone and another of the riders still has a droopy ear from broken cartilage.

In respect to the issue. I hate little dogs, and packs of dogs worse. The little dog in the neighborhood is right there under my wheels yapping away. Get out in the country a few places 'roun here and there are packs that will come out. That is darned scary.
For the most part I generally try to stop if it's single dog, firm no/go home. I have been lucky enough not to be on the wrong side of serious from a four legged animal anyway.

Worse than dog on your bike? Dog while on your trike.....face level teeth, no fun.
You are from Georgia and have seen the packs of dogs in the countryside first hand. There is some naivety on this thread however and some seem to have a more genteel frame of reference. I'm not sure they would feel the same if they climbed up Racoon Creek Rd in Dallas or met the group of dogs near the train tracks at the end of Braswell Mountain Rd in Rockmart.

I can't imagine facing a dog on a trike. Yikes!

It is a shame to hear about the issue with spray in a group. That is a completely different dynamic. The guys who ride out of Sosebee Cycling Park in White Georgia will get unhappy pretty quickly if you pull out spray while riding in front of them.

I got some Sabre Red Pepper Gel on on my knees this Saturday - my own fault from my own spray while riding with one other person. It was pretty intense, really uncomfortable. Not bad at all while riding as the wind cooled it off but when I stopped it burned really bad to the point where I had to keep squirting my water bottle on my knees. It took about 4 hours to calm down.


-Tim-
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Old 07-09-18, 03:38 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
It is a shame to hear about the issue with spray in a group. That is a completely different dynamic. The guys who ride out of Sosebee Cycling Park in White Georgia will get unhappy pretty quickly if you pull out spray while riding in front of them.

It took about 4 hours to calm down.


-Tim-

Second off, ouch!

I quit riding with this group years ago. As a core it was a really good group with some super talented and strong riders, which I am not and was not fit enough to ride with. I lead the C group for a while and it was awesome aside from newbie mistakes. That group dwindled and moved up, I joined them in the B group and the shenanigans, lack of respect, and CAT 6 racing going on totally turned me off to riding with them as a whole. Overall, my experience with group riding has been to stop. Cycling on your own, or with friends whom presumably care about you, it is dangerous enough.
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Old 07-09-18, 05:22 PM
  #120  
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I try to outrun dogs that chase from behind. I usually succeed, but sometimes they gain on me. When that happens, I grab a fistful of brake (safely) and they usually back off enough to let me wind it back up and get out of dodge.

If a dog runs from the side or front and I think it could interfere with my front wheel, I slow down and stop if necessary. I am actually much more concerned about dogs making me hit the tarmac than I am of getting bitten.

Packs are the worst. They terrify me and once I encounter a pack, I typically avoid that road for months (or years). Nonetheless, in these situations, I usually try to outrun the dogs that are closest to the road. The trailing members of the pack usually don't have time to catch as long as I can keep up my speed. There is one pack on a standard route that all cyclists in my area do. The pack is on top of a hill, so I try to approach quietly and crest before they charge. They never chase downhill.

I don't carry pepper spray. I ride alone a lot. I encounter dogs on more than half my rides. I have never been bitten.
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Old 07-09-18, 08:17 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by DeadGrandpa View Post
I carry bear spray on every ride. I've used it several times on dogs that get within range, which is 15-20 feet. I'm not interested in guessing the dog's intentions, or hoping its owner has the dog's rabies vaccination up to date. The spray deploys as a fog, and to date, has stopped each dog in its tracks. I don't believe that the dog suffers permanent damage, but if it does, I'm okay with that. I'm not okay with crashing because of a dog running under my front wheel or because I'm kicking the dog in the face to try to make it back off. I hate effing dogs and their stupid owners who don't keep them on their own property.
Amen, Grandpa.
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Old 07-09-18, 10:05 PM
  #122  
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How do pedestrians survive in this land where packs of savage, possibly rabid, dogs run free? At least cyclists have a chance, but those in two feet ...!

Anyone have the stats on comparative survival rates?

Last edited by avole; 07-10-18 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 07-09-18, 10:08 PM
  #123  
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Is this from a movie trailer? "In a land where savage, rabid dogs roam in packs seeking the innocent flesh of the young and defenseless"...

maybe that was CUJO.
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Old 07-09-18, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
Is this from a movie trailer? "In a land where savage, rabid dogs roam in packs seeking the innocent flesh of the young and defenseless"...

maybe that was CUJO.
Maybe you think it's funny.

I was attacked twice as a 5 year old in a nice neighborhood by dogs. Once on my bike, once walking. It's a terrifying experience for a young child.
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Old 07-09-18, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by f4rrest View Post
Maybe you think it's funny.

I was attacked twice as a 5 year old in a nice neighborhood by dogs. Once on my bike, once walking. It's a terrifying experience for a young child.
So was I ... neither time when I was on a bike and I grew up and got over it!
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