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Itís in France, not on this MUP

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Itís in France, not on this MUP

Old 07-17-18, 07:23 AM
  #26  
jitteringjr
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
That guy's a jerk and should have called out the pass. However, I never, ever assume I'm clear. Always, always, always shoulder check when making a lateral move, whether commuting or racing. No mirror necessary.
Calling out a pass is more dangerous than not in my experience. Most of the time the idiots will just move into the way when you say something. Better to scare them after you have passed them. People need to get over this idea of not calling out a pass as being a jerk move. It is safer to not say anything.

And if you are going to move across the trail to left turn without looking behind you, you are at fault. It is not any different if you changed lanes in a car without looking. You don't get to just flip your turn signal on and have instant access to the turn or lane change.
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Old 07-17-18, 07:29 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
I always use my mirrors so I don't have to turn my head. It's hard for me to keep a straight line if I'm turning my head to look behind me. Plus, I have a wide enough field of view in the mirror I can see everything behind me, and all I have to do is turn my head back & forth slightly to see beyond the mirror's field of view.
Mirrors can have blind spots. If you have a good set up, that's cool.

I trust my eyes more than a mirror.
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Old 07-17-18, 07:37 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
I wish I could claim credit for this term ... but I stole it too!
It's a good one. In my neck of the woods the triathletes are out in full force on the popular MUP. Riding their tri bikes with their heads down. You can easily identify the less skilled bike handlers among them. There are some situations where the use of cattle prods should be legal.
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Old 07-17-18, 08:09 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by jitteringjr View Post
Calling out a pass is more dangerous than not in my experience. Most of the time the idiots will just move into the way when you say something. Better to scare them after you have passed them. People need to get over this idea of not calling out a pass as being a jerk move. It is safer to not say anything.
If that's the way you want to ride, stay off the MUPs and trails.

In our area, we have well documented practices for using the trails, nearly all trail users understand this. When experienced riders lead by example (announcing passes) we are building a safer trail system for all trail users. When the experience riders just blast past silently, they are creating a stressful negative experience and this can cause trail systems to loss advocates and funding.

For your reference, in my area, I announce passes to other walkers/riders/joggers and nearly half of them lift a friendly wave with their left hand to knowledge they heard me.
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Old 07-17-18, 08:19 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
That jerk probably didn't wave either!

Did he waive The Wave.
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Old 07-17-18, 08:36 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
If that's the way you want to ride, stay off the MUPs and trails.

In our area, we have well documented practices for using the trails, nearly all trail users understand this. When experienced riders lead by example (announcing passes) we are building a safer trail system for all trail users. When the experience riders just blast past silently, they are creating a stressful negative experience and this can cause trail systems to loss advocates and funding.

For your reference, in my area, I announce passes to other walkers/riders/joggers and nearly half of them lift a friendly wave with their left hand to knowledge they heard me.
Sorry but after the first dozen or so times where people moved right into me as I announced passing using a plethora if different sayings, I stopped saying anything and have not had an incident since. Announcing passing simply scares the bejesus out of people and makes them act erratically. This is some silly anachronism in my opinion. Hold your line and act predictably and all is good. Beside you don't hear cars honking their horns at people on the insterstates every time they casually pass another car. Why should trails be any different?
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Old 07-17-18, 08:45 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by jitteringjr View Post
Sorry but after the first dozen or so times where people moved right into me as I announced passing using a plethora if different sayings, I stopped saying anything and have not had an incident since. Announcing passing simply scares the bejesus out of people and makes them act erratically. This is some silly anachronism in my opinion. Hold your line and act predictably and all is good. Beside you don't hear cars honking their horns at people on the insterstates every time they casually pass another car. Why should trails be any different?
I'll repeat, if you don't want to announce passes, that's cool, just stay off the MUPs.

I ride both on roads and MUPs: on the roads, I don't announce passes; and on MUPs I do.

I'd love to hear what those people have to say about you passing silently. As a person that walks my dogs on a MUP, I can tell you, I don't like the silent riders. Maybe us should walk your MUPs to see how you feel about the silent pass.

And the highway reference is useless hyperbole.
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Old 07-17-18, 08:50 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
Mirrors can have blind spots. If you have a good set up, that's cool.

I trust my eyes more than a mirror.
Unlike a car mirror, as I turn my head slightly, the eyeglass mirror view sweeps across my rear view. No blind spot, and it's a very wide angle view with the whole sweep.
But I still turn my head to check just before a turn. And I still get startled by quiet cars occasionally, since I have to move my head a bit to use the mirror.
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Old 07-17-18, 09:00 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
I'd love to hear what those people have to say about you passing silently. As a person that walks my dogs on a MUP, I can tell you, I don't like the silent riders. Maybe us should walk your MUPs to see how you feel about the silent pass.
People get pissed all the time for unreasonable things cycling related or not. So yes I know there are people that do get upset about it, but I'd rather they be upset than injured if they had erratically moved into the left side line in front of me. If you are walking your dog on the trail, or running, or riding, then just keep to the right (the dog too) at all times and there is no problem. Personally, I would rather be passed be a silent cyclist myself then have someone yell right behind me and scare the crap out of me. I don't see the silent pass of being a jerk move at all. I am personally not trying to be a jerk about it because I do feel it keeps everyone safer.


Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
And the highway reference is useless hyperbole.
I don't see it that way at all. The rules of the road work amazingly well for cars, at least in the US, as long as people are following them and not on their cell phones. I don't see why trails would need anything different.
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Old 07-17-18, 09:48 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by jitteringjr View Post
People get pissed all the time for unreasonable things cycling related or not. So yes I know there are people that do get upset about it, but I'd rather they be upset than injured if they had erratically moved into the left side line in front of me. If you are walking your dog on the trail, or running, or riding, then just keep to the right (the dog too) at all times and there is no problem. Personally, I would rather be passed be a silent cyclist myself then have someone yell right behind me and scare the crap out of me. I don't see the silent pass of being a jerk move at all. I am personally not trying to be a jerk about it because I do feel it keeps everyone safer.
I'll say it one last time, please ride as silently as you'd like on the roads. Thanks!

Originally Posted by jitteringjr View Post
I don't see it that way at all. The rules of the road work amazingly well for cars, at least in the US, as long as people are following them and not on their cell phones. I don't see why trails would need anything different.
Rules of the road ... well, we have rules for the MUPs too (reference the link in my earlier post). I know people that don't feel a need to signal lane changes on the highway, they don't feel it helps them so they don't do it. It's wrong (illegal) but they don't see the point in following the rules of the road.
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Old 07-17-18, 11:23 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by jitteringjr View Post
Calling out a pass is more dangerous than not in my experience. Most of the time the idiots will just move into the way when you say something. Better to scare them after you have passed them. People need to get over this idea of not calling out a pass as being a jerk move. It is safer to not say anything.

And if you are going to move across the trail to left turn without looking behind you, you are at fault. It is not any different if you changed lanes in a car without looking. You don't get to just flip your turn signal on and have instant access to the turn or lane change.

The magic phrase is "passing on your left". I have found just adding the word passing has drastically decreased the number of people who get confused. That being said, if a path is wide enough where I'm like 8 feet to their left, I generally don't call the pass.

Now about the jerk who went to the left right in front of me after I called out a pass because he had invisible headphones in, I have nothing nice to say. He didn't hear my call, and didn't call out his pass. Fortunately, the slower bicyclists we were both passing made room for me to get in their lane before I would have taken out the jerk.

Hate to break it to the poster above who said drivers don't obsess about each other's bad driving, but BS. They also obsess about bicyclists.
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Old 07-17-18, 11:43 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
Mirrors can have blind spots. If you have a good set up, that's cool.
That's why I can just move my head back & forth if I need to scan. I also use my ears to hear other riders nearby, which is why an "On your left!" or ding of a bicycle bell is helpful.
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Old 07-17-18, 11:47 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by jitteringjr View Post
Calling out a pass is more dangerous than not in my experience. Most of the time the idiots will just move into the way when you say something. Better to scare them after you have passed them. People need to get over this idea of not calling out a pass as being a jerk move. It is safer to not say anything.
That's why a bell comes in handy. Just ding the bell and let them know you're behind them. No confusion over "On your left!"
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Old 07-17-18, 12:20 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
That's why a bell comes in handy. Just ding the bell and let them know you're behind them. No confusion over "On your left!"
Yes I think a bell is the best way to go. I am looking for one but never seem to find one in a store that would fit my aero oval shaped bars. I'll have to just buy something online.
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Old 07-17-18, 01:59 PM
  #40  
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I've had the wondering walkers on our local MUP move right into me when I announce. I have a super loud rear hub so now I go real slow and just stop pedaling. That lets them know I'm coming, no need to announce with words. I'm extra polite to pedestrians on the MUP as well, along with being super polite to drivers in vehicles as well. That good karma seems to go around as I rarely have any incidences with either crowd. Act nice going forward, get nice coming back at you.

Always check your six. ******** from behind or not, you're responsible for you.
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Old 07-17-18, 03:40 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The magic phrase is "passing on your left". I have found just adding the word passing has drastically decreased the number of people who get confused. That being said, if a path is wide enough where I'm like 8 feet to their left, I generally don't call the pass..

Most of the people on MUPs here are either idiots, or crackheads so I don't think it really matters what you say. In some areas, I'm sure it really is better to signal if you're passing someone in a lot of places. Not so much on the couple of paths that I was using regularly for a while there.

Last edited by manapua_man; 07-17-18 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 07-18-18, 07:09 AM
  #42  
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I've found that many people don't know their left from right, so I opt for a bell and/or "bike passing" followed by "thanks" and/or friendly wave works great. (and if you're one of the wave-haters, you can get bent).

Old video from Japan about the effect of a bell:

Otherwise, feel free to sing:

Take note, neither example uses "left/right"

No mater what you do, you'll likely scare the crap outta a couple people. I've seen people jump and shout at me for every kind of announcement and for the occasional silent pass. However, IMHO, signalling a pass is the best practice for a safe and enjoyable mix use trail. I know not every city is the same, so I'll ask you to announce passing when you come to our Twin Cities. Thanks!
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Old 07-18-18, 08:27 AM
  #43  
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You just have to accept that MUPS are multi use pathways and not fast biking lanes and adjust your riding style. Just as cars need to adjust when sharing the road with a bike. Suddenly the cyclist is the one in the heavier, faster moving vehicle.

I had this funny experience a few months ago when I started gravel riding a particular section of dike system near my home. On one section near the parking lot I could not figure out why walkers were being so disrespectful with their dogs, often letting them run free and not controlling them as I rode by etc... man, what's wrong with those people! Turned out that particular section (about 2.5 km) was part of an off leash dog walking park. Duh. Now I just accept that when riding through there I have to take it slow until I get past and onto the longer stretch of empty dike.
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Old 07-18-18, 08:40 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by manapua_man View Post
Most of the people on MUPs here are either idiots, or crackheads so I don't think it really matters what you say. In some areas, I'm sure it really is better to signal if you're passing someone in a lot of places. Not so much on the couple of paths that I was using regularly for a while there.

The MUPs in my area are generally great places to ride, but I definitely avoid the one nearest to where I live as it really looks like a good place to get mugged, and it's faster to ride on the street parallel to it..
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Old 07-18-18, 08:45 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
You just have to accept that MUPS are multi use pathways and not fast biking lanes and adjust your riding style.
Yep. But the problem is getting others to accept that. If I am using a busy trail I am courteous to others, but I encounter so many who are not, including people who put others at serious risk. It's too bad that so many people are so selfish that they will not even coast a few second until oncoming traffic clears and it's safe to pull over and pass. Always reminds me of the guy who struck and killed an old lady crossing the street a few years ago because he was so intent on making a personal best for Strava.
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Old 07-18-18, 09:03 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
You just have to accept that MUPS are multi use pathways and not fast biking lanes and adjust your riding style. Just as cars need to adjust when sharing the road with a bike. Suddenly the cyclist is the one in the heavier, faster moving vehicle.

I had this funny experience a few months ago when I started gravel riding a particular section of dike system near my home. On one section near the parking lot I could not figure out why walkers were being so disrespectful with their dogs, often letting them run free and not controlling them as I rode by etc... man, what's wrong with those people! Turned out that particular section (about 2.5 km) was part of an off leash dog walking park. Duh. Now I just accept that when riding through there I have to take it slow until I get past and onto the longer stretch of empty dike.

I have a three 11-12 mile paths I frequent (no idea why the lengths of three paths are so similar, weird coincidence), and while they differ a lot in width and quality of pavement, they all share one characteristic--they're a mix of congested parts with wide open stretches. I find that riding like a bat out of hell on the open stretches, slowing down right before I encounter pedestrian traffic (far enough back not to scare them) then accelerating rapidly right after passing them is a great conditioning exercise for my legs. Rapid acceleration is the key, it turns a flat run into really good training for hill climbing, and when you've already passed people, it doesn't startle them.

I've noticed that there's a lot of riders on the MUPs who think they're fast because they buzz by pedestrians unsafely, I've taken to scolding them when I inevitably pass them later on the open stretches--I've seen too many that seem to be oblivious to the close calls they've had with toddlers, etc. The really fast riders almost always seem to know where to slow.

Regardless of position on the path, I always announce a pass to a person with a dog on a leash so they know to reign it in just in case the dog bolts.
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Old 07-18-18, 11:48 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Regardless of position on the path, I always announce a pass to a person with a dog on a leash so they know to reign it in just in case the dog bolts.
I've found the dog will hear you when the person doesn't... but the dog turns to look and gets the person to look too.
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Old 07-18-18, 12:02 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
I've found the dog will hear you when the person doesn't... but the dog turns to attack and gets the person to look too.
Fixed that for you.
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Old 07-18-18, 12:20 PM
  #49  
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I've found the dog will hear you when the person doesn't... but the dog turns to attack and gets the person to look too.

Originally Posted by jitteringjr View Post
Fixed that for you.
Huh... never happened to me, not once, including many rural, day-long endurance rides. Maybe you should stop using steak-scented aftershave? Or I just have a sweet voice that all dogs love?
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Old 07-18-18, 12:21 PM
  #50  
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It's impossible to make sweeping generalizations about how to behave on the MUP. In Chicago we have some paths that are very congested along the lakefront in the city where it's impossible to ride fast and if you called out every time you passed someone you'd be like that singing guy in the video. We also have some paths way out in the suburbs where it's pretty easy to ride fast and safely pass other riders without saying anything. And we have everything in between. It's funny, when I ride fast on the MUP I can't help but think the slow people are idiots, but when I'm out on my cruiser I think the fast people are jerks. In both cases I come across an alarming number of people who are shockingly unaware of their surroundings.
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