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My Love/Hate Relationship with Bikes

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My Love/Hate Relationship with Bikes

Old 07-16-18, 11:59 AM
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Ferrouscious
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My Love/Hate Relationship with Bikes

Bikes are awesome. I think most of you on this forum would agree, otherwise you wouldn't be on it. But there are little things that REALLY get on my nerves. For example, Shimano cassette hubs. I recently bought a set of "top-of-the-Exage-lineup" hubs and I very carefully inspected them. They spun amazingly well. They were perfectly adjusted. Unfortunately they had no grease in them. I took them apart, polished them, and set them back in their small, padded cardboard box, still disassembled. A month later, I built them up into a set of wheels to replace my freewheel and cartridge bearing wheels. When I went to adjust the rear hub, it was microscopically bent. People extol the virtues of cassettes and Shimano hubs. They say "they'll last a lifetime with regular repacking". What they don't say is how much you'll spend on bent axles (a supposed non-issue on cassette hubs). They'll bend not in hard use, but as you set them aside while you repack. They'll bend just enough to make it impossible to remove all the play and still be smooth. Just a fraction of a micron is enough. Also, how do I get a rear wheel into horizontal dropouts without having to fuss around for three minutes trying to get the chain to go past the STINKIN' QUICK-RELEASE TWISTIE?! It's infuriating!
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Old 07-16-18, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
Bikes are awesome. I think most of you on this forum would agree, otherwise you wouldn't be on it. But there are little things that REALLY get on my nerves. For example, Shimano cassette hubs. I recently bought a set of "top-of-the-Exage-lineup" hubs and I very carefully inspected them. They spun amazingly well. They were perfectly adjusted. Unfortunately they had no grease in them. I took them apart, polished them, and set them back in their small, padded cardboard box, still disassembled. A month later, I built them up into a set of wheels to replace my freewheel and cartridge bearing wheels. When I went to adjust the rear hub, it was microscopically bent. People extol the virtues of cassettes and Shimano hubs. They say "they'll last a lifetime with regular repacking". What they don't say is how much you'll spend on bent axles (a supposed non-issue on cassette hubs). They'll bend not in hard use, but as you set them aside while you repack. They'll bend just enough to make it impossible to remove all the play and still be smooth. Just a fraction of a micron is enough. Also, how do I get a rear wheel into horizontal dropouts without having to fuss around for three minutes trying to get the chain to go past the STINKIN' QUICK-RELEASE TWISTIE?! It's infuriating!
1. Shift into smallest cog
2. Put chain on smallest cog
3. Then put wheel into the dropouts.
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Old 07-16-18, 01:01 PM
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New hubs still under warranty for bent axle?
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Old 07-16-18, 03:06 PM
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The hubs are old, date code means 1991. Also, I am putting it in the smallest cog. It's the installation that's infuriating. The lower part of the chain wants to stay with its buddies on the derailleur. It just flips to the side. I'm not saying that I can't, just that I feel I'm doing something wrong to make it harder than it needs to be.
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Old 07-16-18, 03:39 PM
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So this thread is to complain that 27yo hubs need to be replaced and that horizontal dropouts(are they if they are horizontal?) arent as easy to use as vertical dropouts.

I have a lot of hubs older than exage...and actually have some exage hubs too. None have suddenly bent while repacking or while in storage. Rough luck there, i guess.
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Old 07-16-18, 03:53 PM
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Yup. That about sums it up. The hubs themselves are still fine, just the axles are bent. I can get new axles though, but I've had it happen to multiple. I complain because every expense (bike related or not) is a lot of hard work and usually involves sacrificing something else that needs fixing (a phone or headset, for example).
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Old 07-16-18, 04:04 PM
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Meanwhile... I have over 50K on my 19 yo Campy Records hubs... and all I have ever done is re-grease them. They have outlasted 2 sets of rims, and just started on the 3rd set.

Smooooooth.
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Old 07-16-18, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
Bikes are awesome. I think most of you on this forum would agree, otherwise you wouldn't be on it. But there are little things that REALLY get on my nerves. For example, Shimano cassette hubs. I recently bought a set of "top-of-the-Exage-lineup" hubs and I very carefully inspected them. They spun amazingly well. They were perfectly adjusted. Unfortunately they had no grease in them. I took them apart, polished them, and set them back in their small, padded cardboard box, still disassembled. A month later, I built them up into a set of wheels to replace my freewheel and cartridge bearing wheels. When I went to adjust the rear hub, it was microscopically bent. People extol the virtues of cassettes and Shimano hubs. They say "they'll last a lifetime with regular repacking". What they don't say is how much you'll spend on bent axles (a supposed non-issue on cassette hubs). They'll bend not in hard use, but as you set them aside while you repack. They'll bend just enough to make it impossible to remove all the play and still be smooth. Just a fraction of a micron is enough. Also, how do I get a rear wheel into horizontal dropouts without having to fuss around for three minutes trying to get the chain to go past the STINKIN' QUICK-RELEASE TWISTIE?! It's infuriating!
Starting with the obvious, there is no "top-of-the-Exage-lineup". Exage was part of the Shimano line and on the low end to boot. I would put it at about Alivio's level, in terms of the modern Shimano line. But the Alivio is probably better because all kinds of stuff has trickled down to it from higher up.

The axle can't "microscopically" bend just sitting in a box. They aren't that delicate. Assuming a freehub, the axles on those are damnedably difficult to bend in even extreme use. Just sitting in a box it isn't going to bend. Even if the axle bent did magically bend in the box, a "fraction of a micron" isn't going to make that much of a difference. A "fraction of a micron" is one millionth of a meter. It's 1/1000th of a millimeter. A hair is about 17 microns thick. A sheet of paper is 50 micros thick. For the metrically challenged, one micron is 0.00001". A fraction of that isn't going to make a bit of difference.

If you are having problems adjusting the bearings, look to something else as a cause. It isn't a microscopically bent axle. Do you have the proper number of bearings in the hub? Are you using keeper bearings and have the bearings in upside down? Are you missing parts? Is a dust cap bent? There are a whole lot of other causes to look for before blaming a bent axle that bent while unused in a box.

Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
Also, how do I get a rear wheel into horizontal dropouts without having to fuss around for three minutes trying to get the chain to go past the STINKIN' QUICK-RELEASE TWISTIE?! It's infuriating!
Twistie? A proper quick release skewer isn't a "twistie". It should be a cam lever that you tighten by hand and exerts incredible force on the frame with only a little bit of movement. It shouldn't be that hard. Pull the derailer out of the way as you slide the wheel into place.
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Old 07-16-18, 04:53 PM
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Clearing it all up...

Just in case anyone takes me too seriously, this thread was a "bit" of a rant thread. Exaggerations were used and molehills were made into mountains. The "twistie" I refer to is on the opposite side of the cam. It is used to get the QR tightish before clamping. I'm sure I will get rear wheel changes optimised in due time. As for the axle situation, I will check the dust caps, but I have bent an axle while in storage. Quite severely. You don't even need a flat surface to see it, but it's on a different hub. From what I have been able to glean from Velobase, Exage had a mini lineup of its own. Just search exage on velobase. I realise that they were never top-of-the-line, but the nicer ones were just below today's 105 gruppo. I like them because they are 126 OLD and a cassette hub. They seem to be pretty valuable on eBay, but I got mine for a steal. Good hubs. Any other suggestions as to why I might be feeling drag in some parts of the rotationand not others? Lastly, can you send an axle from clamping the QR too hard? I am long past those days, but it could explain a strange situation.
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Old 07-16-18, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
Just in case anyone takes me too seriously, this thread was a "bit" of a rant thread. Exaggerations were used and molehills were made into mountains.
Don't exaggerate and you won't have that problem.

Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
The "twistie" I refer to is on the opposite side of the cam. It is used to get the QR tightish before clamping.
It's called a quick release skewer nut.
​​​​​​​
Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
As for the axle situation, I will check the dust caps, but I have bent an axle while in storage. Quite severely. You don't even need a flat surface to see it, but it's on a different hub.
How do you bend an axle in storage? At my local co-op, we have axles in bins that people dig through all the time and the axles don't bend. We have bins of hubs that people dig through as well. People even drop the axles and hubs on the floor and they don't bend them. If you ran over the box with the hub in it with a car, all bets are off. But just sitting on a shelf? Nah.
​​​​​​​
Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
From what I have been able to glean from Velobase, Exage had a mini lineup of its own. Just search exage on velobase. I realise that they were never top-of-the-line, but the nicer ones were just below today's 105 gruppo. I like them because they are 126 OLD and a cassette hub. They seem to be pretty valuable on eBay, but I got mine for a steal. Good hubs. Any other suggestions as to why I might be feeling drag in some parts of the rotationand not others? Lastly, can you send an axle from clamping the QR too hard? I am long past those days, but it could explain a strange situation.
Velobase lists 4 Exage hubs. I might grant you that there was a road and mountain version but the ones listed in Velobase look more like year to year differences than having different levels of Exage. That's not the normal way that Shimano operates, especially for lower end components.
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Old 07-16-18, 06:29 PM
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I don't understand how an axle could get bent while in storage. Never seen that.
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Old 07-17-18, 03:58 PM
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The axle had a hard life... Just out of curiosity, can a (way) overtightened QR bend an axle?
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Old 07-17-18, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
every expense (bike related or not) is a lot of hard work and usually involves sacrificing something else that needs fixing (a phone or headset, for example).
Axles are cheap. Hell, the shop might even give you one for free if they like you.
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Old 07-17-18, 04:14 PM
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$20 is significant to me.
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Old 07-17-18, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
$20 is significant to me.
20 bucks, eh? I would not consider that cheap. Nevermind, then. Seems like maybe you're using higher end components.
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Old 07-17-18, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
The axle had a hard life...
Your story is changing. You said it was working well before you took the hub apart and put it in a box. Why you would disassemble a hub for storage is beyond me in the first place.

Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
Just out of curiosity, can a (way) overtightened QR bend an axle?
No. At least no more than just storing a hub would bend an axle.
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Old 07-17-18, 06:24 PM
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Different hub had a hard life. Thanks for all the help! Have a great duiy.

Last edited by Ferrouscious; 07-17-18 at 06:33 PM. Reason: WE SHOULD CLOSE THIS THREAD
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Old 07-18-18, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
So this thread is to complain that 27yo hubs need to be replaced and that horizontal dropouts(are they if they are horizontal?) arent as easy to use as vertical dropouts.

I have a lot of hubs older than exage...and actually have some exage hubs too. None have suddenly bent while repacking or while in storage. Rough luck there, i guess.
Why had no one pointed out yet that this would be perfect reasoning for N+1?
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