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Rivendell seems to have changed

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Rivendell seems to have changed

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Old 07-27-18, 02:32 PM
  #51  
ironwood
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Does anyone who has posted on is thread actually ride a Rivendell?
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Old 07-27-18, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ironwood View Post
Does anyone who has posted on is thread actually ride a Rivendell?
No way, they're insanely expensive. For the price of a Rivendell frame I can have a whole bike built from a frame, with decent specs. Plus, I want disc brakes, unthreaded steerers and freehubs on my bikes.

I read the Rivendell Reader, have read one of Grant's books and I appreciate about 50% of what he says, but I'm a new generation of retrogrouch. 1 1/8 straight steerer tubes, 9 speed drivetrains, QR hubs, an appreciation of 26", etc.

Grants ideas are interesting, but his bikes are ridiculously expensive and feature tech that is a generation too early for me.
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Old 07-27-18, 07:47 PM
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My cycling journey has changed over time. As I got older I started to re-evaluate what I wanted out of a bike and the style of riding that I was doing. I read Grant Peterson's writings and looked at his bikes and they spoke to me. I bought a Rivendell for my wife first, then decided to take the plunge a year later. My bike has been a pleasure to ride and I have never regretted it. Yet, my cycling journey has not ended and it is time for another bike. Unfortunately, like relationships, Rivendell and I are not growing at the same pace and we seem to be moving in different directions. So, as the OP noted Rivendell has changed and it changed in a way that is not suited to what I want for my next bike. I am grateful for what I have learned while being a Rivendell customer and owner and I hope that the shop succeeds. I will continue to shop there, I just won't be buying another frame or bike from them.
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Old 07-27-18, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by blakcloud View Post
...changed in a way that is not suited to what I want for my next bike...
How so?

I mean it looks like they still offer the same services as before. They just added some more affordable options for the masses.
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Old 07-28-18, 05:48 AM
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One of the things Rivendell does right is to offer bikes with wheels that are more proportionately sized for the frames. 559 for small frames, 584 for slightly larger frames, and 622 for the largest frames.

GP long tried to get a new tire size built with a bead seat diameter of 603mm. He could get the rims built but not the tires. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years one of the big players announced the new ideal tire size, 603mm.
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Old 07-31-18, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ironwood View Post
One of the things Rivendell does right is to offer bikes with wheels that are more proportionately sized for the frames. 559 for small frames, 584 for slightly larger frames, and 622 for the largest frames.

GP long tried to get a new tire size built with a bead seat diameter of 603mm. He could get the rims built but not the tires. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years one of the big players announced the new ideal tire size, 603mm.
Yes, and it’s not the only thing they do right. Despite the dismissive attitude of some, they built bikes for a segment of the riding population that can’t be found elsewhere. As chain stays and wheel bases seem to be getting shorter in general, Riv’s are longer. Nothing wrong with either, but if you prefer longer, you can’t really find anything comparable.If you prefer upright seating and swept back bars on a bike with high end components, you’re going to look long and hard through a maze of drop down bars as standard equipment. All of their components are built and selected to complement each other for a certain riding experience, one which doesn’t seem to be a priority for anyone else.
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Old 07-31-18, 07:34 AM
  #57  
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The LHT has 46" stays. So does the Disc Trucker. ECR 29+ has 45.1" stays. REI has at least one touring model with 45.5" stays.
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Old 07-31-18, 07:43 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
The LHT has 46" stays. So does the Disc Trucker. ECR 29+ has 45.1" stays. REI has at least one touring model with 45.5" stays.
46cm stays, I think you mean. Also, the Vaya has 45cm, and the Marrakesh is adjustable from 45.5 cm to 47.2 cm.
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Old 07-31-18, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
46cm stays, I think you mean.
Heh. Yes. Been up since 4 a.m.
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Old 07-31-18, 09:57 AM
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I think the Rivendell/Jones comparison is apt. Both companies are reflections of their respective owners, who are definitely iconoclasts.
Rivendell reflects an older sensibility while Jones is more modern but both go their own way.
I have a Riv Atlantis -one of the older Toyo manufactured frames - and a Jones Plus. Both are great bikes, comfortable to ride and fairly versatile, but not interchangeable. I hope Rivendell can keep going and I wish Jones further success. I think all Jones stuff is Taiwan produced.
I've talked to Grant on the phone, and Jeff in person, both are friendly and easy to talk with and both seem to have a mission to change, maybe in small ways, the cycling world.
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Old 07-31-18, 02:29 PM
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"Peterson outright rejects things that are pretty clearly "better" for most riders: indexing, STI.." I disagree with the statement on indexing and STI. Just don't see how they are better for most riders. I just built a commuter bike for a 25 year old kid using it to commute with. Set it up with friction thumbies for absolute reliability. Once set, they never need adjustment. Once the movement of the lever is learned there is no reliance upon the adjustment to get to the next gear. I see this as better for all riders.
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Old 07-31-18, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PDKL45 View Post
I don't disagree with you, in that Rivendell bikes are fairly unique. Still, the Specialized AWOL, that company's most Rivendellesque bike, is pushing 44" in the larger sizes.

While Rivendell occupy a singular niche, to quote Jan Heine, "When Bridgestone USA closed in 1994, many mourned the loss of what they saw as the last bastion of sensible design in the quickly changing world of bicycles. They rejoiced when later that year, Bridgestone’s marketing manager Grant Petersen started Rivendell Bicycle Works. ... Everything that followed – the steel bikes from Surly, Soma, All City, etc.; the renewed popularity of handbuilt custom bicycles that since has swept the world; the comeback of classic components; even Compass Cycles – can trace its roots to the moment when Grant Petersen stood up and said: “I love steel and lugs. Why not?”"

Grant's ideas have been instrumental and have informed many of the designers producing "adventure" bikes. The tire clearance, fenders, racks, relatively low gearing and geometry of my Specialized AWOL all owe a big debt to Grant Petersen's ideas (although he would probably be able to write a compelling and well-crafted article against its disc brakes). While you're right, in that Rivendell bikes are fairly unique and no one else is making bikes just like them, I am appreciative of the fact that Grant's ideas have spread and have pollinated other minds.
Tire clearance, big tires, fenders, racks, good gearing range and geometry, you mean like my 3 Surlys?
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Old 07-31-18, 02:55 PM
  #63  
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No disc, 1" headtubes? No interest for me.
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Old 07-31-18, 03:05 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
They've got a fanbase happy to send them interest-free loans when they need it, and Grant Petersen achieves this at basically zero marketing budget.
Pretty pessimistic way to view giftcards.
Most every retailer is guilty of this too, then.
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Old 07-31-18, 06:10 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Tire clearance, big tires, fenders, racks, good gearing range and geometry, you mean like my 3 Surlys?
Sure, like that. Grant's ideas probably influenced Surly, as evinced by the Jan Heine quote I provided. The LHT isn't a clone of the Atlantis, as some have claimed, but the general ethos of Surly is not without the influence of Grant Petersen's ideas.
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Old 07-31-18, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
No disc, 1" headtubes? No interest for me.
1” headtubes were a great standard for years, and still are. There really wasn’t a good reason to change except for marketing (IMO). As for disc brakes, I can stick with rim brakes. Simple, effective and they give me more wheel options (radial spoking for example).
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Old 07-31-18, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Point View Post


1” headtubes were a great standard for years, and still are. There really wasn’t a good reason to change except for marketing (IMO). As for disc brakes, I can stick with rim brakes. Simple, effective and they give me more wheel options (radial spoking for example).
The birth do the threadless headset and the ahead stem is quite interesting, though, even if I do somewhat agree.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/08/orig...bikes-forever/
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Old 07-31-18, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
The LHT has 46" stays. So does the Disc Trucker. ECR 29+ has 45.1" stays. REI has at least one touring model with 45.5" stays.
I think you mean cm, not inches. Those bikes in your examples are about as long as you’ll find, and they still don’t match what Rivendell is making. The mid sized Clem Smith Jr, for example, has chain stays of 52 cm, and there are Rivs with stays as long as 56 cm. On a bike like the Clem Smith Jr, that means that we’re looking at a wheel base of 117 cm on the model I rode while the LHT has wheel bases in the 105-108 cm range.depending on size.

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Old 08-01-18, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Point View Post


1” headtubes were a great standard for years, and still are. There really wasn’t a good reason to change except for marketing (IMO). As for disc brakes, I can stick with rim brakes. Simple, effective and they give me more wheel options (radial spoking for example).
1" might be good for road, try loaded touring or bikepacking with a big guy( me) and a 60 lb bike or so. I dislike rim brakes for rain, mud and winter rides, way messy. Wheel options? Like plus and fat tires? Only disc with those. We'll see how Grant weathers the storm, if at all.
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Old 08-01-18, 01:54 PM
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Compass cycles has a $40 a year Quarterly magazine VBQ
they promote their stuff in ... That cult devotees quote from every issue..





/..
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Old 08-01-18, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Point View Post


1” headtubes were a great standard for years, and still are. There really wasn’t a good reason to change except for marketing (IMO). As for disc brakes, I can stick with rim brakes. Simple, effective and they give me more wheel options (radial spoking for example).
s

This has been discussed to death, but the Aheadset design is an improvement over the 1” threaded. MUCH easier to get adjusted, easier to change stems, which makes fitting easier. Getting the 2 locknuts of a 1” at the correct tension took some experience, but once you learned it you never really had issues.

Still, it’s been 25 years ?, since the threadless design took over and I’d rather deal with a Soma, etc.... that uses 1-1/8” then a Rivendell with 1”, so at some point you just deal with the fact (as a dealer/manufacturer) that a standard is a standard for a reason. You reject that standard at your own peril.
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Old 08-01-18, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Compass cycles has a $40 a year Quarterly magazine VBQ
they promote their stuff in ... That cult devotees quote from every issue../..
People who read it also quote posts from December 28, 2011 in Jan Heine's blog, https://janheine.wordpress.com/ while they wear their Rene Herse robes, chant their sacred Alex Singer chants (low end of mid trail, low end of mid trail, low end of mid trail) and light incense to the memory of Lyli Herse in front of a consecrated picture of Roger Baumann, first of the single bikes home in the 1956 Paris-Brest-Paris. It's a difficult calling, but someone has to do it Bob.

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Old 08-01-18, 09:29 PM
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Long may we live in his supple embrace.

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Old 08-01-18, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
1" might be good for road, try loaded touring or bikepacking with a big guy( me) and a 60 lb bike or so. I dislike rim brakes for rain, mud and winter rides, way messy. Wheel options? Like plus and fat tires? Only disc with those. We'll see how Grant weathers the storm, if at all.
I am 6'5 and 230#. My touring bike frame for '90 has a 1" threaded headset, canti brakes, and can take 40mm tires.
the tubing has been plenty stiff and i cant say i want wider tires than the 37mm ones on there.
I get people not liking canti/brakes, but even those are fine for me, but I rarely ride in the rain for more than a few hours due to how i tour.


to each their own and all and all choice that are thought put are cool. Just posting this as a balance.
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Old 08-02-18, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ironwood View Post
Does anyone who has posted on is thread actually ride a Rivendell?
I've owned 4 Rivendells, (Atlantis, Roadeo, Sam Hillborne, and an Appaloosa which has become my favorite bike ever) and can say that they are not sluggish or slow bikes. Very neutral handling, not twitchy and not slow turning, even with loads and move when I put power to the pedals. The framesets are quality made, and I can see that when I take the bike down to the bare frame to change it into some other configuration yet again. You can tell someone designed it, put it together, built it with a lot of care. I really think they are some of the best bikes being made today.

It's rumored Grant is coming out with a new model, which will be his version of a mountain bike, with threadless headsets (on and mtb I do prefer threadless over threaded, but touring or roadie I prefer quill), canti bosses, and of course the new long chainstays. I'm very much looking forward to it. It won't have disc brakes but I still ride my '96 Stumpjumper with cantis and haven't had braking issues. If Velocity keeps producing rims like the Cliffhanger, rim brakes aren't a deal breaker for me....the reality is that I wouldn't ride a Rivendell in the same manner I ride my Santa Cruz.

Rivs aren't for everybody, and I don't think Grant and company would ever say they are making bikes for the masses or are following trends just to follow trends, but they do a good job making bikes for those of us who aren't racing, don't pretend to race, like to carry stuff on our bikes, like to wear regular clothes when riding sometimes, like to tinker on their bikes, and see the value in sticking a $24 rear derailer on a $1500 frame that happens to have Paul Component cantis and friction shifting.

It is my understanding that Riv has never been shy about selling bikes made in Taiwan and many of his frames are built over there. You can still get the American built ones like the Roadeo and the American version of the Atlantis with the shorter chainstays, but it takes a phone call to them and the prices have gone up over time...quite a bit, actually. My Taiwan Rivs don't ride any worse than the American ones I've had, so I really don't see the value in paying more for that. The Taiwan bikes are priced right, IMHO.
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