> >
>

# N+/-(a number)

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

# N+/-(a number)

09-04-18, 09:45 AM
#1
Jon T
Senior Member

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: West Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,106

Bikes: '84 Peugeot PH10LE

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 31 Posts
N+/-(a number)

Please pardon my ignorance but what does N+/- (a number) mean? I've wracked my pea-brain trying to figure it out.
Thanks
Jon

Last edited by Jon T; 09-05-18 at 12:17 PM.
09-04-18, 09:56 AM
#2
kuroba
Senior Member

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Chile
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
09-04-18, 09:58 AM
#3
zze86
Senior Member

Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 664
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
N = the number of bikes currently in your stable
+x = adding to the stable by x number of bikes
-x = subtracting from the stable by x number of bikes

The N+1 phrase is generally used when someone is unsure whether to keep a bike or replace it with another and has the connotation that having one more (or more variety) is better.
09-04-18, 10:15 AM
#4
Milton Keynes
Senior Member

Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,985

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 1335 Post(s)
Liked 275 Times in 152 Posts
N+1 until D-1.
Likes For Milton Keynes:
09-04-18, 10:22 AM
#5
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,609

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 603 Post(s)
Liked 259 Times in 161 Posts
don't limit yourself to just one bike!
Likes For Flip Flop Rider:
09-04-18, 02:38 PM
#6
rumrunn6
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 24,863

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r

Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Quoted: 3721 Post(s)
Liked 843 Times in 587 Posts
currently planning on replacing two with one, so that would be n-2+1
09-04-18, 02:45 PM
#7
Cl904
Senior Member

Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 34 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
N+1 until D-1.
d= number of bikes that causes a divorce.
Likes For Cl904:
09-04-18, 06:07 PM
#8
Ghazmh
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: The banks of the River Charles
Posts: 1,362

Bikes: 2020 Seven Evergreen, 2019 Honey Allroads Ti, 2018 Seven Redsky XX, 2017 Trek Boon 7, 2014 Trek 520, 2006 Gary Fisher Montare

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Quoted: 409 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 154 Posts
Originally Posted by Cl904

d= number of bikes that causes a divorce.
i wonder what that number is on average? My wife has slowly come around to accept the completely rational logic behind me needing a 7th bike.
Likes For Ghazmh:
09-04-18, 06:16 PM
#9
ph0rk
Senior Member

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southern Appalachians
Posts: 453

Bikes: A hauler, a commuter, and a steamroller.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I like s-1 as it captures the universe of possible nasty outcomes beyond a mere divorce.

There is another, third, rarely used equation in this system to be balanced: s+1

Buy s another bike, s increments by one; ergo, s-1 also increments by one.
09-04-18, 08:04 PM
#10
spinnaker

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 6,540

Bikes: 2005 Cannondale SR500, 2008 Trek 7.3 FX, Jamis Aurora

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Quoted: 3391 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by jon t
please pardon my ignorance but does n+/- (a number) mean? I've wracked my pea-brain trying to figure it out.
Thanks
jon
42
Likes For spinnaker:
09-04-18, 08:12 PM
#11
tagaproject6
Senior Member

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8,546

Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Record);Cinelli Xperience (Force);Specialized Allez (Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition;De Rosa King 3 Limited(Force 22);DeRosa Merak(Red):Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Hydro(Di2)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Liked 255 Times in 137 Posts
Get another bike.
09-04-18, 08:18 PM
#12
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 6,286

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame, Proteus frame, Ti 26 MTB

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 362 Times in 260 Posts
N-1 is not a mathematical equation that could exist. It is like saying I am going to douse myself in hydrochloric acid to get some dirt on my face. It doesn't work that way it would just kill you. I can understand replacing one so doing like an n-1+1 because then it is just a zero transaction and that is cool.
09-05-18, 07:05 AM
#13
rumrunn6
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 24,863

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r

Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Quoted: 3721 Post(s)
Liked 843 Times in 587 Posts
Originally Posted by Ghazmh
i wonder what that number is on average? My wife has slowly come around to accept the completely rational logic behind me needing a 7th bike.
oh she's a keeper! btw my limit was 13 incl. "frames" finally scaled it back to just 3 several years ago
09-05-18, 12:21 PM
#14
Jon T
Senior Member

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: West Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,106

Bikes: '84 Peugeot PH10LE

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 31 Posts
Thanks all. Got it. I only have one with no plans to add or subtract any. So I guess I have N1 bikes?
Jon
09-05-18, 01:53 PM
#15
ThermionicScott
7-speed cultist

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 20,062

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Quoted: 2785 Post(s)
Liked 708 Times in 499 Posts
Originally Posted by Jon T
Thanks all. Got it. I only have one with no plans to add or subtract any. So I guess I have N1 bikes?
Jon
You have N bikes.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
09-05-18, 02:25 PM
#16
wgscott
Occam's Rotor

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,292
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 1,387 Times in 710 Posts
Conventionally, the limits on a summation go from i to N.

N+1 denotes the next item in the series.
Likes For wgscott:
09-05-18, 02:26 PM
#17
wgscott
Occam's Rotor

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,292
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 1,387 Times in 710 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
You have N bikes.
Where N ≥ 3

according to Rule 12
09-05-18, 02:33 PM
#18
livedarklions
I'm cross-chained

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,813

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Quoted: 4032 Post(s)
Liked 2,905 Times in 1,654 Posts
Originally Posted by veganbikes
N-1 is not a mathematical equation that could exist. It is like saying I am going to douse myself in hydrochloric acid to get some dirt on my face. It doesn't work that way it would just kill you. I can understand replacing one so doing like an n-1+1 because then it is just a zero transaction and that is cool.

You're wrong-- N-1 is a transient, unstable state that occurs when a person gets rid of 1 bike to make room for the 2 new bikes he/she is getting the next day, a mere waystation on the path to N+1, the only truly stable state.
09-05-18, 08:30 PM
#19
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 6,286

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame, Proteus frame, Ti 26 MTB

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 362 Times in 260 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
You're wrong-- N-1 is a transient, unstable state that occurs when a person gets rid of 1 bike to make room for the 2 new bikes he/she is getting the next day, a mere waystation on the path to N+1, the only truly stable state.
Fair enough. I can dig that idea.
09-06-18, 01:21 AM
#20
Machka
In Real Life

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 51,917

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 138 Post(s)
Quoted: 3122 Post(s)
Liked 355 Times in 225 Posts
With Rowan and me it's always N+2 ... because we each have to get a bicycle.
Likes For Machka:
09-06-18, 08:01 AM
#21
rumrunn6
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 24,863

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r

Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Quoted: 3721 Post(s)
Liked 843 Times in 587 Posts
when I eat an ice cream sandwich, I always have to have more than one
09-06-18, 07:16 PM
#22
devianb
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 843

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by rumrunn6
when I eat an ice cream sandwich, I always have to have more than one
Copy that, although in my case it is those ice cream drumsticks. My equation is (N+1) ≤ (Sum N+1 Storage space).
09-06-18, 07:47 PM
#23
wgscott
Occam's Rotor

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,292
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 1,387 Times in 710 Posts
This has always puzzled me.

The number of bikes you should own is N+1. To prevent separation from the spouse or whatever, it is S-1.

So,

N+1 = S -1

solve for S:

S = N + 2

I think this means one should buy two more bikes.
09-06-18, 08:00 PM
#24
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 6,286

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame, Proteus frame, Ti 26 MTB

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 362 Times in 260 Posts
Originally Posted by wgscott
This has always puzzled me.

The number of bikes you should own is N+1. To prevent separation from the spouse or whatever, it is S-1.

So,

N+1 = S -1

solve for S:

S = N + 2

I think this means one should buy two more bikes.
One of my neighbors is an account so I feel pretty confident I am a math wiz and these figures check out!
09-06-18, 11:06 PM
#25
jlmonte
Senior Member

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Central Coast California
Posts: 112

Bikes: Colnago Brain, Master Bi-Titanio, Vitus 979, Specialized Roubaix, Salsa Marrakesh, and a couple of Treks

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)