General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Magnesium bike frames?

Old 09-22-18, 06:14 AM
  #1  
JonathanGennick 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
JonathanGennick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Munising, Michigan, USA
Posts: 3,987

Bikes: Priority 600, Priority Continuum, Devinci Dexter

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 632 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Magnesium bike frames?

I haven't seen much Interbike news on these boards. The most interesting bit for me is probably this new, magnesium alloy:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/prod...s#.W6Yxo2hKjb0

I'm not fond of carbon, so a metal that is lighter in weight than aluminum is appealing.
JonathanGennick is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 06:30 AM
  #2  
clengman
Senior Member
 
clengman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 450

Bikes: '73 Schwinn World Voyageur, '98 Nishiki BSO

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
I think magnesium is really prone to corrosion. I think the trick is to find a good durable surface treatment to prevent that. I'm sure they must have something worked out. Wonder what it is.
clengman is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 06:53 AM
  #3  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 7,524

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1315 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Sounds good. Everyone should always welcome advance. And IMO any type of metal for a bike frame is better than a plastic CF frame.
rydabent is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 07:12 AM
  #4  
rosefarts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 637
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 12 Posts
I had a pair of hubs with magnesium flanges, like 20 years ago. Of course there was the Rock Shox mag 21, it had magnesium lowers and brake arch.

I used to see magnesium bikes 10 years ago when racing. I'm sure they're still around but I'm out of the loop.

Fun story. A friend switched from cantis to V brakes way back when. We ground off the cable hanger on the brake arch. Of course we attempted to burn the filings. It was a strong white flame if I remember correctly.
rosefarts is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 08:46 AM
  #5  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,589

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 183 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6747 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 161 Times in 137 Posts
It Has already been done
fietsbob is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 08:51 AM
  #6  
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 3,691
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 960 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
But carbon isn't recyclable and the Allite Super Magnesium alloy is

So is steel.
jon c. is online now  
Old 09-22-18, 08:53 AM
  #7  
skidder
Cereal Killer
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 845

Bikes: Why yes, I do have a few! Thank you for asking!

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
It should work, just get the alloying and engineering correct for magnesium's peculiar properties. A lot of aftermarket car wheels are made from magnesium. Remember the old air-cooled 4-cylinder Volkswagen engines? The blocks of those were magnesium.
skidder is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 09:01 AM
  #8  
WizardOfBoz
Generally bewildered
 
WizardOfBoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 1,785

Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 617 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by clengman View Post
I think magnesium is really prone to corrosion. I think the trick is to find a good durable surface treatment to prevent that. I'm sure they must have something worked out. Wonder what it is.
Pickett made slide rules of magnesium back in the day, and it does corrode pretty badly.

On the other hand, my Dad owned a manufacturing company that made lawnmowers. REALLY industrial mowers. Like 24" mowers with an 18 HP Wisconsin engine and quarter-inch plate steel decks. Anyway, his small 21 (or 19"??? Can't recall) was made from a Mg casting. With paint, that lasted pretty well. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of the wood pattern that was used to cast the mower decks.
WizardOfBoz is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 09:02 AM
  #9  
General Geoff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania
Posts: 640

Bikes: 2018 Lynskey Cooper CX; 2007 Cannondale F4

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Sounds impressive, guess we'll see how widely adopted this stuff becomes in the next few years. If it truly is lighter and stronger than aluminum but costs the same, it should see widespread use on consumer bicycles.
General Geoff is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 09:15 AM
  #10  
wgscott
Occam's Rotor
 
wgscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: The Timbers of Fennario (CL77)
Posts: 4,812

Bikes: Steel

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 162 Times in 100 Posts
Bike Snob NYC reviewed one in 2009:

Bike Snob NYC: BSNYC Product Review: Segal Magnesium Road Bicycle

mentioned this, and the OP subject, in the most recent post:

Bike Snob NYC: Timeless Design Is Timeless
wgscott is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 05:10 PM
  #11  
Slightspeed
Senior Member
 
Slightspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,473

Bikes: 1961 Legnano Gran Premio, 1964 Legnano Roma Olympiade, 1973 Raleigh Super Course, 1978 Raleigh Super Course, 1978 Peugeot PR10, 2002 Specialized Allez, 2007 Specialized Roubaix, 2013 Culprit Croz Blade

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 44 Times in 31 Posts


Saw this at the Eroica California Concours.
Slightspeed is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 05:27 PM
  #12  
Keiffith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Magnesium isnt anywhere near as easy to cold form as aluminum. And since it has properties close to aluminum, this becomes a major con.

Casting, like the white bike shown, is more likely.


Personally i think Ti is the better of metals since corrosion is zero and its closer to the properties of steel, just lighter and harder to work.
Keiffith is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 06:52 PM
  #13  
son_of_clyde
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
Pickett made slide rules of magnesium back in the day, and it does corrode pretty badly.

On the other hand, my Dad owned a manufacturing company that made lawnmowers. REALLY industrial mowers. Like 24" mowers with an 18 HP Wisconsin engine and quarter-inch plate steel decks. Anyway, his small 21 (or 19"??? Can't recall) was made from a Mg casting. With paint, that lasted pretty well. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of the wood pattern that was used to cast the mower decks.
I don't mean to derail this thread too much, but was your father associated with Sensation mowers by chance?
son_of_clyde is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 09:36 PM
  #14  
themp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 155

Bikes: Specialized Crosstrail

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Interbike 2018, Part II | RKP
themp is offline  
Old 09-22-18, 10:53 PM
  #15  
catgita
Senior Member
 
catgita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 763

Bikes: Fitz randonneuse, Trek Superfly/AL, Tsunami SS, Bacchetta, HPV Speed Machine, Rans Screamer

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This isn’t your dad’s magnesium. It can be readily formed and welded. Two properties that are game changers.
catgita is offline  
Old 09-23-18, 05:48 AM
  #16  
Hoopdriver
On Holiday
 
Hoopdriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,063

Bikes: A bunch of old steel bikes

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by clengman View Post
I think magnesium is really prone to corrosion. I think the trick is to find a good durable surface treatment to prevent that. I'm sure they must have something worked out. Wonder what it is.
Yes, I have a magnesium-bodied router. Every few months I had to clean off the oxidation until finally I coated it with lacquer. After a few years, the manufacturer (Bosch), switched to aluminum because of this issue.

Originally Posted by skidder View Post
It should work, just get the alloying and engineering correct for magnesium's peculiar properties. A lot of aftermarket car wheels are made from magnesium. Remember the old air-cooled 4-cylinder Volkswagen engines? The blocks of those were magnesium.
And when you had an engine fire, these things burned spectacularly.
Hoopdriver is offline  
Old 09-23-18, 08:48 AM
  #17  
JanMM
rebmeM roineS
 
JanMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Metro Indy, IN
Posts: 15,462

Bikes: RANS V3 ti, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 462 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Paketa has made some very light magnesium tandem and single bikes. Reported that they are out of business - website doesn't indicate any current production or sales: Paketa Custom Magnesium Bicycles :: Tandem bicycles colorado::Road Racing Bicycles :: Mountain Bikes:: Tandem bicycles denver colorado :: paketa cycles website

I have magnesium pedals from Nashbar on one of my bikes. Don't know who they were made by. No signs of oxidation.
__________________
RANS V3 Ti, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
JanMM is offline  
Old 09-23-18, 10:08 AM
  #18  
WizardOfBoz
Generally bewildered
 
WizardOfBoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 1,785

Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 617 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by son_of_clyde View Post
I don't mean to derail this thread too much, but was your father associated with Sensation mowers by chance?
My Dad's company was named DeVere-Locke. I can't find pics of any of the really beefy rotary mowers they made, but here's a reel-type from about 1961 (before my Dad purchased the company). This was not the magnesium-deck model, but is old school (cast iron, and the paint job has pin stripes!).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zSAn622L6NvrSnLk8

WizardOfBoz is offline  
Old 09-23-18, 10:37 AM
  #19  
WizardOfBoz
Generally bewildered
 
WizardOfBoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 1,785

Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 617 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
For those interested, here is a pic of the wooden pattern used to make the cast magnesium mower decks:

WizardOfBoz is offline  
Old 09-23-18, 01:12 PM
  #20  
son_of_clyde
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
My Dad's company was named DeVere-Locke. I can't find pics of any of the really beefy rotary mowers they made, but here's a reel-type from about 1961 (before my Dad purchased the company). This was not the magnesium-deck model, but is old school (cast iron, and the paint job has pin stripes!

Cool. Thanks for posting those photos. Sensation made commercial 21" push mowers with magnesium decks in the '70's and '80's. They were originally out of Nebraska, I believe. I didn't realize there were other manufacturers using magnesium.
son_of_clyde is offline  
Old 09-23-18, 04:25 PM
  #21  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,589

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 183 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6747 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 161 Times in 137 Posts
Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
I haven't seen much Interbike news on these boards. The most interesting bit for me is probably this new, magnesium alloy:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/prod...s#.W6Yxo2hKjb0

I'm not fond of carbon, so a metal that is lighter in weight than aluminum is appealing.
So get one, get something else next spring, there will always be something else..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 09-23-18, 05:26 PM
  #22  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 7,524

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1315 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
It Has already been done
I have wondered for years why frames are not made this way. Close the mold and with one high pressure squirt of magnesium, and you have an instant bike frame. It should be a very inexpensive way to make a frame.
rydabent is offline  
Old 09-23-18, 05:45 PM
  #23  
joesch
Senior Member
 
joesch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hotel CA / DFW
Posts: 411

Bikes: 83 Colnago Super, 86 Masi NS, 87 50th Daccordi, 87 Guerciotti, 96 Serotta Colorado TI, 05 Colnago C50, 08 Lemond Filmore, 13 Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
AELLE IS A CHROME MANGANESE (NOT CHROMOLY) ALLOY THAT LENDS ITSELF TO AUTOMATED
WELDING PROCESSES. THERE IS A BUTTED VERSION.

Some years after the original Aelle
introduction Columbus began making the butted manganese moly tubes, but
soon after their introduction they introduced the Cromor set which cut
into the marketability of the former. Our local shop sold the Torpados as
a budget racer.
joesch is offline  
Old 09-24-18, 12:38 AM
  #24  
tsiklonaut
Shaft roller
 
tsiklonaut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Estonia
Posts: 19

Bikes: Brik Brut, Dynamic Tempo 8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I wonder if it's really "normally" weldable as they advertise, I'm guessing it needs a special type of welding to make the welds strong enough for high torsion use on a lightweight frame.
tsiklonaut is offline  
Old 09-26-18, 05:53 AM
  #25  
ChrisWagner
exspiravit ascensorem
 
ChrisWagner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28

Bikes: Surly Bridge Club, Priority Eight, Trek 700, '78 Motobecane Super Mirage

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post

And when you had an engine fire, these things burned spectacularly.

And dangerously. Attending fire fighting school in the Navy, I learned burning Mg is impossible to extinguish. Jets are/were constructed with magnesium. Burning Mg explodes when doused with water, CO2 is broken down and the fire burns the oxygen for more flame. Our instruction was to coat nearby fuel for fire sources with foam and push it overboard.

Last edited by ChrisWagner; 09-26-18 at 05:58 AM.
ChrisWagner is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.