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Stalling & falling, but even if you roll with it ...

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Stalling & falling, but even if you roll with it ...

Old 09-25-18, 07:28 AM
  #1  
rumrunn6
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Stalling & falling, but even if you roll with it ...

even when you roll with it, when you fall off your bike, you’re making abrupt violent contact w/ the ground

recently rode a good quality unpaved trail w/ several road crossings. two of the crossings are very steep w/ gates at the bottom where the road is

funny I took a pic of this hill looking down, when later, going back up, it would be notable again



the way I take them is downshift ahead of time to my lowest gear, coast down slowly heavy on the brakes (disc brakes show their benefits), then w/ one hand on the gate, slowly roll around the gate, watch for traffic then cross & slowly roll around the next gate. it's a little tricky cuz there are boulders blocking the path around the gate. then slowly crank up the steep hill, usually getting out of the saddle near the middle or top to finish it off

on this day, after clearing the road & gate & starting up the hill, I rolled over some rough erosion grooves, was going too slowly, maybe began to stall? then my front wheel turned abruptly stopping forward motion altogether & caused an off-camber lean to the left

it’s difficult to remember exactly what happened but I landed on a wrist, arm, knee & shoulder, then kept rolling until I stood up. rolling was good but I could tell I struck my arm & knee hard enough to pause for a cpl minutes to evaluate. especially after Wifey broke her wrist this
summer falling off her bike

I have a sneaking suspicion why I didn’t put a foot out, but I’m not sure if my clips kept my left foot on the pedal a tiny bit too long or if I was already leaning over too far & falling, to put out a foot

anyway walked over to the bike, picked up the sport cam that had fallen just outside my bar bag & took this pic so I wouldn't forget what not to do next time. my phone & other camera stayed in the bag. next time I will attack the climb less casually ...



if you fall off your bike & no one sees you, did it really happen?

fwiw, answers my question if I should put the cleated pedals on this bike. think not

Last edited by rumrunn6; 09-25-18 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 09-25-18, 07:32 AM
  #2  
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Good quality?
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Old 09-25-18, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Good quality?
hahaha, well, the rest of it anyway
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Old 09-25-18, 07:36 AM
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I recently did something similar in a very low-speed corner. The curve on the trail wasn't very sharp, but the direction I was going went from downhill, to flat near the apex, to gradually uphill. I had downshifted in advance, and was already looking at my line ahead...

...when the front tire went right into a rut of powdery sand, and basically just stopped. The bars turned maybe 20 at most, and I just tipped over. No time to unclip, nothing. I landed straight on my left side, the bike didn't really even come in contact with the ground.

The sand there was pretty soft-- a Catch 22, if you will-- no soft sand, I don't fall, but I got to fall in soft sand-- so I didn't even really notice it. Got back on the bike and was on my way.

Like two days later, the wife says, "You know you have a big bruise on your hip, and another one on your side." And I legitimately had to sit and think, how did I get those bruises? I had completely forgotten tipping over. I remember it clearly now, but I'm less than 100% sure I didn't hit my head.
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Old 09-25-18, 10:01 AM
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If you fall off your bike and nobody sees you, but you take pictures and post it on BF then yes, it really happened.

Conversely, if you fall off your bike and nobody sees you but your riding buddies come back and find you standing there, bleeding profusely from road rash, that fall also happened.

Looks like your non-fall left you better off than mine at any rate!
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Old 09-25-18, 10:12 AM
  #6  
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FWIW with an IGH, you have an advantage to be able to grab a lower gear
at very slow, even stopped speeds...

as fast as you can spin the grip shift.. or flick the lever...



FWIW, just watched the 2nd UCI Cyclocross race, on TV, last night,
time was lost, falling, and slipping,

the one who won , figured out when to get off and run , in the slippery mud,
keeping their (her) momentum up. when others were trying to ride. and bogging down, then running..








....

Last edited by fietsbob; 10-10-18 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 09-25-18, 10:21 AM
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now, will you continue to fall in the same place?
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Old 09-25-18, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
now, will you continue to fall in the same place?
ummm, hope not! I've ridden that trail probably 5 or 6 times, so that particular crossing 10 or 12 times including the round trips, only fell this one time. of course the erosion just gets worse, not better
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Old 09-25-18, 01:10 PM
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I'd have gotten off to the side of the trail. Those hard-edged ruts are just an invitation to a fall, going up or down.
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Old 09-25-18, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
ummm, hope not! I've ridden that trail probably 5 or 6 times, so that particular crossing 10 or 12 times including the round trips, only fell this one time. of course the erosion just gets worse, not better
lol I hope not too, and mention that because I HAVE fallen on places I've frequented often
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Old 09-25-18, 10:05 PM
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That's a nasty spot for sure. You need a piston at about mid bike. That's mountain bike material.
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Old 09-26-18, 01:03 PM
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2 weeks ago I had a stall-fall and remembering the last time I fell, right on my hip, I decided to put my knee out to "brace" the fall onto pavement. That was pretty stupid. Thankfully no real damage, but I still can't kneel on it without some discomfort.

And of course I fell because someone in a car wanted directions....so I was unable to escape without someone seeing me. Played it off as if it didn't hurt, meanwhile dying inside.
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Old 09-26-18, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
2 weeks ago I had a stall-fall and remembering the last time I fell, right on my hip, I decided to put my knee out to "brace" the fall onto pavement. That was pretty stupid. Thankfully no real damage, but I still can't kneel on it without some discomfort.

And of course I fell because someone in a car wanted directions....so I was unable to escape without someone seeing me. Played it off as if it didn't hurt, meanwhile dying inside.
Right. Knees are not good to land on. I fell on 2016 Eroica, muddy road, full clips, straps and cleats. 1st time a lady stopped right in front if me pointed uphill, no warning, I just fell like a big tree, landed on the pointy part of my left knee. I think unconsciously I put my knee out to save my left arm which already has a plate and screws from a fall several years ago. Little while later, transitioning from hard dirt to soft churned up sand, same thing, same result, same knee. I finished the ride, but its been over 2 years now, and the knee has never gotten over it. Funny thing is, it doesn't hurt while riding, only when walking, otherwise it would have been serious. 😂

Last edited by Slightspeed; 09-26-18 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 09-26-18, 03:42 PM
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Quick thinking...always good thing to hit and roll. Glad you weren't tore up too badly.
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Old 10-10-18, 12:08 PM
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I wonder if MTBs are more prone to having the front wheel twitch sideways because the their forks have less rake?

Last edited by rumrunn6; 10-10-18 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 10-10-18, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
I wonder if MTBs are more prone to having the front wheel twitch sideways because the their forks have less rake?

'Trail' is the Data you need; fork offset, head tube angle, and wheel diameter ,
are factors ..
You can physically measure that .. it's the distance, laid out on the ground ,

between the line through the steering axis, and a plumbline
down from the wheel axis.




....
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Old 10-12-18, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
I wonder if MTBs are more prone to having the front wheel twitch sideways because the their forks have less rake?
Only when you ride through an erosion rut.

Also known as an 'edge trap' where you get something (rut, curb, crack) too close to your front wheel that isn't quite on the same line you're riding. The wheel hits it / falls in, and tries to steer the bike on to the new line. At low speeds it's not enough to put you down, but (especially ruts like the OP) the wheel tries to climb out, but you just don't have the power or momentum, and you stall& fall.

In any fall situation, the key to minimizing injury is to keep your hands on the bars. 'Keep Riding The Bike' as we used to say in motos. Hands on the bars, elbows in, and if it's a low-to-medium speed fall; hands on the bars, and lean away from the ground. You'll hit with the end of the handlebar, and the cheek of your hip. It'll hurt, to be sure, but you're landing on a big slab of muscle and fat, so more than likely, you'll be able to ride yourself back to the end of the trail.
Putting your arms out to catch yourself is a sure-fire-way to get injured. The same physics apply to motos and velos, and if you've got a 500-lb moto going down, you're not going to be able to 'catch it.'

Last edited by Ironfish653; 10-12-18 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 10-12-18, 06:12 PM
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half of the problem

Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
I wonder if MTBs are more prone to having the front wheel twitch sideways because the their forks have less rake?
Some of it because MTB rider weight is farther forward than road ride in general, but I think that is evened out by the greater speeds of pave rides too. But falls don't count unless there is a witness who actually knows you! Unless of course you're kid brother (55 yrs old and 13 yrs junior) puts his cell pics of my 15mph crash on an Indy MUP on facebook for the wife to see it. New scar on knee and 15 weeks later my wrists still hurt. Nothing broken, and I have a new respect for reliability of carbon forks now.
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Old 10-12-18, 08:25 PM
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That mess is telling me to get off and walk.

That's why my hybrids have platform pedals. Easier to set a foot down to steady myself when I encounter skeezy looking patches. I use clipless only on the road bike.
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Old 10-13-18, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
That mess is telling me to get off and walk.

That's why my hybrids have platform pedals. Easier to set a foot down to steady myself when I encounter skeezy looking patches. I use clipless only on the road bike.
When deciding to tackle an aberrant road, you will want to gain painful experience, are experienced or want to take a chance without researching. Getting hurt is a given, not worth mentioning unless, you are a crybaby and want sympathy.

Your bike must be setup for gravel/mud as well as you. You must know how to ditch the bike fast during a fall to minimize injury, because you won't be going fast. You dont want to ask a forum after you have made all the mistakes. This means you did not learn anything from the pain or web after.
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Old 10-13-18, 11:57 PM
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My recent non-fall really did happen because I failed to hide my broken arm.
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Old 10-14-18, 03:34 AM
  #22  
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"MTBs have less rake"?
"MTB rider weight is further forward than road ride in general"?

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
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Old 10-14-18, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
"MTBs have less rake"?
"MTB rider weight is further forward than road ride in general"?

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
I know, right?
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Old 10-16-18, 05:42 AM
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Ok, I've had a few tumbles with flats and clipped in. I now ride clipped in all the time.

Bonus to flat pedals in a fall:
- you can roll down the hill and your bike just falls over, saving the bike


Bonus to clipped in and falling:
- you fall over and the bike keep you from rolling down the hill (given you don't unclip) saving you

So I guess it depends on what is more important....

Oh, and I would take a class on falling with your arms and legs tucked to save breaking a wrist/arm/leg, in the future.

PS. nice of you to post pics of your crash, too bad you didn't get a video of your tumble.... I'm not usually so alone on my tumbles, the last one, I rolled out directly into oncoming traffic with my bike still attached to my feet, and scooted out of the road, still clipped in. The looks on the faces of the kids in the car was classic!
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Old 10-17-18, 10:32 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by abramj View Post

Oh, and I would take a class on falling with your arms and legs tucked to save breaking a wrist/arm/leg, in the future.
Where can I find a local class on falling to register for?
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