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Unwittingly purchased "take-off" wheelset

Old 09-26-18, 01:10 PM
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Unwittingly purchased "take-off" wheelset

A couple of weeks ago I purchased a Roval SLX24 Disc wheel set from one of my local bicycle stores. They showed them as in stock on their website, so I decided to stop by and pick them up. I didn't think much about it at the time, but all they came with was a set of tubeless valve stems (and I had to ask for them). Wheels seem to work fine. But in the mean time I've decided to try tubeless. So I start reading on Roval's site and notice that some spoke plugs and other things should have been supplied with the wheels. The website indicates "Roval steel QRs, Roval tubeless plugs and valves, front QR & 12mm end caps, rear QR & 142x12 thru-axle end caps."

So I went back to the store this week to ask if they could locate those items. I was then informed that the wheels were take-offs. This irritates me just a bit, because this was not disclosed to me. Not the end of the world, it just seems a little sleazy. But on the way home I started thinking about Roval's lifetime warranty. It states that the original purchaser is covered. I'm not technically the original purchaser. I have no way of knowing how long these wheels were used before they were taken off.

I've contacted Roval to get a list of the parts that should have been included and to ask about the warranty. When I went back in this week, I also needed sealant. I just looked at the receipt. Turns out the store charged me for the plugs! (Which they will have to order.)

How would you guys feel about this? Would you be okay paying full price for take-offs?

-Matt
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Old 09-26-18, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
A couple of weeks ago I purchased a Roval SLX24 Disc wheel set from one of my local bicycle stores. They showed them as in stock on their website, so I decided to stop by and pick them up. I didn't think much about it at the time, but all they came with was a set of tubeless valve stems (and I had to ask for them). Wheels seem to work fine. But in the mean time I've decided to try tubeless. So I start reading on Roval's site and notice that some spoke plugs and other things should have been supplied with the wheels. The website indicates "Roval steel QRs, Roval tubeless plugs and valves, front QR & 12mm end caps, rear QR & 142x12 thru-axle end caps."

So I went back to the store this week to ask if they could locate those items. I was then informed that the wheels were take-offs. This irritates me just a bit, because this was not disclosed to me. Not the end of the world, it just seems a little sleazy. But on the way home I started thinking about Roval's lifetime warranty. It states that the original purchaser is covered. I'm not technically the original purchaser. I have no way of knowing how long these wheels were used before they were taken off.

I've contacted Roval to get a list of the parts that should have been included and to ask about the warranty. When I went back in this week, I also needed sealant. I just looked at the receipt. Turns out the store charged me for the plugs! (Which they will have to order.)

How would you guys feel about this? Would you be okay paying full price for take-offs?

-Matt

If you were charged full price and not informed they were take offs? That sounds like fraud. That's wayyyyyy more than "a little sleazy".
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Old 09-26-18, 01:27 PM
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Yes. In all fairness, they claimed this week that the bike had not been ridden. Seems like if they'd misrepresent take-offs as new, it wold be a stretch to truth on when they were taken off.

One of these days I'm going to learn not to buy something that's not in a sealed box!


-Matt
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Old 09-26-18, 01:31 PM
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not good business
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Old 09-26-18, 01:36 PM
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They should have been up front on their website ad and in person. It looks like they passed on two opportunities to fully disclose.
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Old 09-26-18, 01:39 PM
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It's perfectly okay to claim they are new and in brand new condition if they haven't been used.

But they should have added that they are take offs and may not include all the parts or the manufacturer's warranty. And then they should have been sold at a reasonable discount from a new set.

If they were full price and missing parts, screw them. Return them on principle.
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Old 09-26-18, 01:44 PM
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If you used a credit card, have them do a charge back. That is a sleazy move. Your story about "just looked at the receipt" is confusing. Did you just now look at the receipt after you took the items home? Did you not look at the amount you paid and wonderd why the price is off?
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Old 09-26-18, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
It's perfectly okay to claim they are new and in brand new condition if they haven't been used.

But they should have added that they are take offs and may not include all the parts or the manufacturer's warranty. And then they should have been sold at a reasonable discount from a new set.

If they were full price and missing parts, screw them. Return them on principle.

They really aren't in "brand new condition" if they aren't the complete set of items a sealed box would contain, and the seller knew but didn't disclose that this was less than would have been available at the same price--see item 23 of this list:
https://corporate.findlaw.com/busine...-act-dtpa.html
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Old 09-26-18, 02:04 PM
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If your version of events is truthful then I agree, that a rather sleazy and no doubt purposeful act took place and if nothing else, I don’t know if I would ever trust giving money to them in the future. However, I think it’s worth pointing out that by your own words you didn’t do any proper diligence on educating yourself to what your were buying beforehand. Had you done that, it’s highly doubtful that the shop could have taken advantage of you in the way they apparently did. You clearly didn’t know exactly what you were buying and didn’t ask the appropriate questions at time of sale. That would have saved you a lot of hassle. For their part, if they didn’t clearly indicate at any time that this was a takeoff wheelset before the transaction was finalised, I would agree that is certainly fraud. I’m no lawyer though.but if the wheels were in ‘unused-like new’ condition, as in never ridden, again, had you done due diligence you wouldn’t have forked over money and gotten home before realising you were in a sense, swindled because a takeoff wheelset is unlikely to come with what a brand new wheelset will. You should learn a few lessons from this for the future.
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Old 09-26-18, 02:19 PM
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Sleazy. Take-offs should be identified and cheaper than NIB.
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Old 09-26-18, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tagaproject6 View Post
If you used a credit card, have them do a charge back. That is a sleazy move. Your story about "just looked at the receipt" is confusing. Did you just now look at the receipt after you took the items home? Did you not look at the amount you paid and wonderd why the price is off?
If I decide to return the wheels, I'm not worried about the credit. I'm guessing they'll do so without too much fuss. If not, I can always dispute my card.

My comment about the receipt had to do with the spoke plugs. They were only $3. I was also purchasing some sealant so didn't notice the $3 charge until I looked at the receipt earlier today. My point is, they should not have charged me for something that should have been provided as part of the purchase.

-Matt
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Old 09-26-18, 02:26 PM
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Contrary to popular belief, onyerleft is not a confrontational person. In OP's situation, he would simply never patronize that bike store again, and would miss no opportunity to tell other cyclists about his bad experience there.
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Old 09-26-18, 02:33 PM
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Take-off wheels typically do not have a manufacturers warranty as they are OEM to the bike they came on. The original purchaser of the bike gets the warranty, not the shop. Take them back to the shop and request a refund. If you are not concerned about the warranty, get the plugs from the shop and set 'em up tubless. After much frustration with it, you will go back to tubes anyway.
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Old 09-26-18, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by seamuis View Post
If your version of events is truthful then I agree, that a rather sleazy and no doubt purposeful act took place and if nothing else, I don’t know if I would ever trust giving money to them in the future. However, I think it’s worth pointing out that by your own words you didn’t do any proper diligence on educating yourself to what your were buying beforehand. Had you done that, it’s highly doubtful that the shop could have taken advantage of you in the way they apparently did. You clearly didn’t know exactly what you were buying and didn’t ask the appropriate questions at time of sale. That would have saved you a lot of hassle. For their part, if they didn’t clearly indicate at any time that this was a takeoff wheelset before the transaction was finalised, I would agree that is certainly fraud. I’m no lawyer though.but if the wheels were in ‘unused-like new’ condition, as in never ridden, again, had you done due diligence you wouldn’t have forked over money and gotten home before realising you were in a sense, swindled because a takeoff wheelset is unlikely to come with what a brand new wheelset will. You should learn a few lessons from this for the future.
Your reply is just a bit insulting. I'm guessing this wasn't intentional.

I didn't do any proper diligence? Since when should this be required in order to not get defrauded? I would have assume ddoing business with a legitimate bicycle store should have been enough.

But, I did do research. I knew basically what the wheels *should* have come with, per Roval's website. Since I wasn't immediately planing to go tubeless, and since I don't *need* the other items to run the wheels on this particular bike (through axle, no QR axles needed), it wasn't a big deal. The wheels had a hang tag, so they were obviously on display. I assumed they'd simply lost the original box. A few days later I realized that some day I might well want to run the wheels on another bike. And in the mean time I decided to give tubeless tires a shot.

"You should learn a few lessons from this for the future."

Yes, as I stated in the original post, I've learned not to accept anything that doesn't come in a factory sealed box. I've also learned that some people feel if I got screwed by the local bike store it's my own fault, not the bike shop.


-Matt

Last edited by MattTheHat; 09-26-18 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 09-26-18, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
They really aren't in "brand new condition" if they aren't the complete set of items a sealed box would contain, and the seller knew but didn't disclose that this was less than would have been available at the same price--see item 23 of this list:
https://corporate.findlaw.com/busine...-act-dtpa.html
Nice link. Thanks for that!


-Matt
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Old 09-26-18, 02:39 PM
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So, you paid list price for the wheels, PLUS more for the plugs that should have come with a genuinely-new set? I'd go have a heart-to-heart with them. No, I'd just return them and ask them to order a new wheelset, which will come with all the extra pieces AND have a warranty.
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Old 09-26-18, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Take-off wheels typically do not have a manufacturers warranty as they are OEM to the bike they came on. The original purchaser of the bike gets the warranty, not the shop. Take them back to the shop and request a refund. If you are not concerned about the warranty, get the plugs from the shop and set 'em up tubless. After much frustration with it, you will go back to tubes anyway.
Yes, that's my concern. I'm not the original purchaser, therefore the warranty doesn't apply to me. Moreover, since there was no "retail purchase" of the wheels, I don't even get the two year warranty that would be afforded to a second-hand purchaser. Yes, I'm concerned about the warranty.

And after trying to go tubeless on the "tubeless ready" Axis wheels that came on the bike, I'm ready to go back to tubes. I can't even say go back. The wheels leak air at the weld, so I haven't been able to run them at all without tubes. Maybe they decided to seal up over night.


-Matt
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Old 09-26-18, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
A couple of weeks ago I purchased a Roval SLX24 Disc wheel set from one of my local bicycle stores. They showed them as in stock on their website, so I decided to stop by and pick them up. I didn't think much about it at the time, but all they came with was a set of tubeless valve stems (and I had to ask for them). Wheels seem to work fine. But in the mean time I've decided to try tubeless. So I start reading on Roval's site and notice that some spoke plugs and other things should have been supplied with the wheels. The website indicates "Roval steel QRs, Roval tubeless plugs and valves, front QR & 12mm end caps, rear QR & 142x12 thru-axle end caps."

So I went back to the store this week to ask if they could locate those items. I was then informed that the wheels were take-offs. This irritates me just a bit, because this was not disclosed to me. Not the end of the world, it just seems a little sleazy. But on the way home I started thinking about Roval's lifetime warranty. It states that the original purchaser is covered. I'm not technically the original purchaser. I have no way of knowing how long these wheels were used before they were taken off.

I've contacted Roval to get a list of the parts that should have been included and to ask about the warranty. When I went back in this week, I also needed sealant. I just looked at the receipt. Turns out the store charged me for the plugs! (Which they will have to order.)

How would you guys feel about this? Would you be okay paying full price for take-offs?

-Matt
I would be wound for sound. There is a huge difference between new and even new takeoffs. I definitely would be very leery of any future business i did with them.
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Old 09-26-18, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by blazingpedals View Post
so, you paid list price for the wheels, plus more for the plugs that should have come with a genuinely-new set? I'd go have a heart-to-heart with them. No, i'd just return them and ask them to order a new wheelset, which will come with all the extra pieces and have a warranty.
+1
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Old 09-26-18, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
t. I just looked at the receipt. Turns out the store charged me for the plugs! (Which they will have to order.)

How would you guys feel about this? Would you be okay paying full price for take-offs?

-Matt
return the bike for a full refund & buy elsewhere ASAP.
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Old 09-26-18, 03:34 PM
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Thanks for the input, folks. I think I'll be returning the wheels. I'll also be bringing a print out of their webpage for the wheels along with the print out of the State of Texas Deceptive Trade Practices link provided by livedarklions.


-Matt
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Old 09-26-18, 04:03 PM
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they need to provide you with a new unused bicycle or compensate/barter with you to the difference of the current purchase.
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Old 09-26-18, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
Your reply is just a bit insulting. I'm guessing this wasn't intentional.

I didn't do any proper diligence? Since when should this be required in order to not get defrauded? I would have assume ddoing business with a legitimate bicycle store should have been enough.

But, I did do research. I knew basically what the wheels *should* have come with, per Roval's website. Since I wasn't immediately planing to go tubeless, and since I don't *need* the other items to run the wheels on this particular bike (through axle, no QR axles needed), it wasn't a big deal. The wheels had a hang tag, so they were obviously on display. I assumed they'd simply lost the original box. A few days later I realized that some day I might well want to run the wheels on another bike. And in the mean time I decided to give tubeless tires a shot.

"You should learn a few lessons from this for the future."

Yes, as I stated in the original post, I've learned not to accept anything that doesn't come in a factory sealed box. I've also learned that some people feel if I got screwed by the local bike store it's my own fault, not the bike shop.


-Matt
I had no intention of being insulting. If you took it that way, that’s your concern. I was simply offering an honest opinion. Your own words give you away mate, as not having done due diligence. Your use of ‘unwittingly’ in your post header for one. For two, you stated and I quote:

“I didn't think much about it at the time, but all they came with was a set of tubeless valve stems (and I had to ask for them)”

had as you done diligence before walking into the shop you would have known what a new set of those Roval wheels should have come with. The fact that you didn’t know until well after you purchased them is proof. Also according to your own words, you were not made aware of the fact that these were take off’s until you returned to the shop. You want to tell me you’re not partially to blame if you were clueless to this until returning to the shop? Yes of course the shop is also just as much to blame for this, I 100% agree. But don’t you think my point is valid that had you done proper research on what you were buying they wouldn’t have gotten away with it in the first place? And again, by your own words you didn’t even check the receipt before you left the store to see what you were charged for.

If you’re not willing to acknowledge your massive errors here, you’ll be destined to repeat them. I’m literally trying to be helpful, with no intention of beating up on you. If the whole point of your post was to get agreement that you did nothing wrong and were looking for sympathy, well I think you’ve gotten enough. You can dislike what I say, or even take issue with the tone you perceive my words to be in, but you do share blame and my only point was to help you see that so you won’t get taken for a ride with your hard earned money in the future. Cheers.
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Old 09-26-18, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by seamuis View Post

I had no intention of being insulting. If you took it that way, that’s your concern. I was simply offering an honest opinion. Your own words give you away mate, as not having done due diligence. Your use of ‘unwittingly’ in your post header for one. For two, you stated and I quote:

“I didn't think much about it at the time, but all they came with was a set of tubeless valve stems (and I had to ask for them)”

had as you done diligence before walking into the shop you would have known what a new set of those Roval wheels should have come with. The fact that you didn’t know until well after you purchased them is proof. Also according to your own words, you were not made aware of the fact that these were take off’s until you returned to the shop. You want to tell me you’re not partially to blame if you were clueless to this until returning to the shop? Yes of course the shop is also just as much to blame for this, I 100% agree. But don’t you think my point is valid that had you done proper research on what you were buying they wouldn’t have gotten away with it in the first place? And again, by your own words you didn’t even check the receipt before you left the store to see what you were charged for. If you’re not willing to acknowledge your massive errors here, you’ll be destined to repeat them. I’m literally trying to be helpful, with no intention of beating up on you. If the whole point of your post was to get agreement that you did nothing wrong and were looking for sympathy, well I think you’ve gotten enough. You can dislike what I say, or even take issue with the time you perceive my words to be in, but you do share blame and my only point was to help you see that so you won’t get taken for a ride with your hard earned money in the future. Cheers.
being it a legal business, it should not cause anyone to assume a newly purchased item to be pre-owned, altered out of its intended configuration to which the OEM designed it as, & list something of new value when it is not.
If it were a private sale, used resale shop, or advertised accurately, then the buyer is sol.
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Old 09-26-18, 04:27 PM
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Definitely deceptive. Return the wheels if you can, voice your concern and don't do business there again.
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