General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

bike science reading list

Old 06-21-05, 04:30 PM
  #1  
jrowe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 795

Bikes: De Rosa Corum, custom Kalavinka, Bianchi RC Pista, Cannondale MT Track, Workcycles Gr8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bike science reading list

What is your favorite source for scientific and technical information relevant to bikes? jimv and bostontrevor cited two sources in their discussion of RR, and these will start the list. This might belong in a different forum, but I want contributions from people like jimv and bt.

Jobst Brandt archives: http://yarchive.net/bike/

Bicycling Science, 3rd ed, David Gordon Wilson.
jrowe is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 04:40 PM
  #2  
bostontrevor
Retrogrouch in Training
 
bostontrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Knee-deep in the day-to-day
Posts: 5,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I believe Jobst Brandt's The Bicycle Wheel contains a good deal of engineering info on our favorite subject.

It's too bad they took down Keith's Rants, because I believe Keith Bontrager had some pretty good engineering info on his site.
bostontrevor is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 04:51 PM
  #3  
dolface
Iguana Subsystem
 
dolface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: san francisco
Posts: 4,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
'metallurgy for the cyclist' is pretty good too, it's posted all over the web http://spokesmanbicycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=328
dolface is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 04:54 PM
  #4  
Rincewind8
Radfahrer
 
Rincewind8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bicycling Science : Second Edition
Bicycling Science : Third Edition

by
David Gordon Wilson

lots of technical information and plenty references about almost all aspects of bicycling.

(edit: Sorry! I should have read your post properly. You already mentioned it! )
__________________
TH 1.81 (133kg*62)
Rincewind8 is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 07:55 PM
  #5  
filtersweep
Senior Member
 
filtersweep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jrowedc
What is your favorite source for scientific and technical information relevant to bikes? jimv and bostontrevor cited two sources in their discussion of RR, and these will start the list. This might belong in a different forum, but I want contributions from people like jimv and bt.

Jobst Brandt archives: http://yarchive.net/bike/

Bicycling Science, 3rd ed, David Gordon Wilson.
Sheldon Brown. Jobst can be a blow hard at times... and I think he confuses fact and opinion at times.
filtersweep is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 08:17 PM
  #6  
BostonFixed
Banned.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by filtersweep
Sheldon Brown. Jobst can be a blow hard at times... and I think he confuses fact and opinion at times.
I am also put off by his writing style a little bit, it seems like he talks as a know-it-all, whereas sheldon comes across as just a kooky bike guy, who really knows his stuff.
BostonFixed is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 08:29 PM
  #7  
pitboss
cxmagazine dot com
 
pitboss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Posts: 8,269

Bikes: Titus road, Fort CX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
this is one of the better threads in this joint for quite some time now. thanks.
pitboss is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 08:44 PM
  #8  
potus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 718
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
the paterek manual - one stop shopping for framebuilding / geometry / materials / etc info.
potus is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 08:48 PM
  #9  
pitboss
cxmagazine dot com
 
pitboss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Posts: 8,269

Bikes: Titus road, Fort CX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
thanks potus - and Happy Birthday if you didn't catch that already.

Is this the book that you started off with in your framebuilding endeavors?
pitboss is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 08:56 PM
  #10  
dolface
Iguana Subsystem
 
dolface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: san francisco
Posts: 4,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by potus
the paterek manual - one stop shopping for framebuilding / geometry / materials / etc info.
i have that! even if you never build a frame (and i haven't) it's a GREAT way to get a sense of what's involved in the process.
dolface is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 08:58 PM
  #11  
potus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 718
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by [165]
thanks potus - and Happy Birthday if you didn't catch that already.

Is this the book that you started off with in your framebuilding endeavors?
thanks. yea, the common newbie post on the framebuiler's list... hello. I'd like to build a frame, where do I start? -- read the paterek manual
potus is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 09:20 PM
  #12  
cavit8
Shiftless bum
 
cavit8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 2,677

Bikes: Ciocc fixed, Apollo fixed winter bike, Gazelle Cross, Baboe Cargo bike, Linskey Rouleur Road, Bridgestone Picnica, Tern C7

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bicycles & Tricycles : A Classic Treatise on Their Design and Construction - Archibald Sharp
Bike Design: Mike Burrows
__________________
Originally Posted by operator
truneo that tuned park internal nipple wrench work ??
cavit8 is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 09:27 PM
  #13  
bostontrevor
Retrogrouch in Training
 
bostontrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Knee-deep in the day-to-day
Posts: 5,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by [165]
this is one of the better threads in this joint for quite some time now. thanks.
Yes, thank god we got it moved out of there. Lord knows we wouldn't want quality to pollute the usual swill we spout.

</rant>

I'm partial to Jobst myself. Yes he comes across as a jerk sometimes, but everything I've read from him is well supported by sound theory if not experience. He's an engineer by training and trade and he brings that to his cycling work. I think he's not universally well thought of due to his insistence on slaying some of cycling's sacred cows.

Sheldon, on the other hand, may come across more likeable, but I know there are some cases where he presents opinion as incontrovertable fact, at least in my opinion.
bostontrevor is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 09:32 PM
  #14  
HereNT
無くなった
 
HereNT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sci-Fi Wasabi
Posts: 5,073

Bikes: I built the Bianchi track bike back up today.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shouldn't this be in the mechanic section?
HereNT is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 09:42 PM
  #15  
bostontrevor
Retrogrouch in Training
 
bostontrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Knee-deep in the day-to-day
Posts: 5,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Nah. It's bigger than that. Mechanics is part of it. Nutrition is part of it. Human power generation is part (which way to the biomechanics/physiology/metabolics forum?). Things like wind resistance, rolling resistance, materials science--those are also parts.

Speaking of nutrition, did you know that booze is the body's favorite energy source right after sugar? Unfortunately, it puts a heavy load on the liver or we could all be having scotch as our sport drink of choice.
bostontrevor is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 09:57 PM
  #16  
HereNT
無くなった
 
HereNT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sci-Fi Wasabi
Posts: 5,073

Bikes: I built the Bianchi track bike back up today.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yup - that's why it's so hard to use anything but Jameson as my fuel of choice
HereNT is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 10:45 PM
  #17  
jrowe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 795

Bikes: De Rosa Corum, custom Kalavinka, Bianchi RC Pista, Cannondale MT Track, Workcycles Gr8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bostontrevor
Speaking of nutrition, did you know that booze is the body's favorite energy source right after sugar? Unfortunately, it puts a heavy load on the liver or we could all be having scotch as our sport drink of choice.
In Racing the Antelope, Bernd Heinrich says as much. He's an ultramarathoner, and he experiments quite a bit with beer as fuel for running. It doesn't go well.
jrowe is offline  
Old 06-21-05, 10:47 PM
  #18  
jrowe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 795

Bikes: De Rosa Corum, custom Kalavinka, Bianchi RC Pista, Cannondale MT Track, Workcycles Gr8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bostontrevor
Nah. It's bigger than that. Mechanics is part of it. Nutrition is part of it. Human power generation is part (which way to the biomechanics/physiology/metabolics forum?).
Also from running (sorry, I used to be a runner), but a great resource in the areas of biomechanics/physiology/metabolics, is Lore of Running by Tim Noakes.
jrowe is offline  
Old 06-22-05, 08:39 AM
  #19  
EnLaCalle
Radio Bemba 00.0
 
EnLaCalle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rocking the spot.
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by potus
thanks. yea, the common newbie post on the framebuiler's list... hello. I'd like to build a frame, where do I start? -- read the paterek manual
yikes!! that book cost $90 after shipping. I'd love to take a look at it because I'm very curious about frame building (i posted a question here asking if anyone knew of a good place in nyc to take welding classes, but didn't get much of response), but that's a little costly for something I might not even pursue. (rather put that cash toward new hubs...) can i get this from the library ?
EnLaCalle is offline  
Old 06-22-05, 04:23 PM
  #20  
cavit8
Shiftless bum
 
cavit8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 2,677

Bikes: Ciocc fixed, Apollo fixed winter bike, Gazelle Cross, Baboe Cargo bike, Linskey Rouleur Road, Bridgestone Picnica, Tern C7

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by EnLaCalle
yikes!! that book cost $90 after shipping. <<SNIP>> (rather put that cash toward new hubs...) can i get this from the library ?
You can sometimes come across older versions on ebay.
__________________
Originally Posted by operator
truneo that tuned park internal nipple wrench work ??
cavit8 is offline  
Old 06-22-05, 05:14 PM
  #21  
jrowe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 795

Bikes: De Rosa Corum, custom Kalavinka, Bianchi RC Pista, Cannondale MT Track, Workcycles Gr8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by EnLaCalle
can i get this from the library ?
Paterek's is unlikely to be at any library. I checked DC & NY Public Libraries and the Library of Congress. LoC won't have it because it doesn't have an ISBN, which generally means it's bound and sold by the author. On Amazon it has an ASIN (Amazon.com Standard Item Number) so they can track it, but it's not, strictly speaking, a published book.
jrowe is offline  
Old 06-23-05, 02:09 PM
  #22  
Feldman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
More art/craft than science, but even with having built wheels for 30 years I learned a lot and enjoyed tremendously, Gerd Schraner's "Art of Wheelbuilding." Well worth the price and the reading time.
Feldman is offline  
Old 06-23-05, 05:23 PM
  #23  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,268

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6210 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 20 Posts
Wow, I asked something similar on the mechanics list a couple weeks ago and they just blew it off... probably did not want a mere cyclist knowing all the inner secrets.

My question basically was about the various transitions of the drive train since about the late 70s and the move from freewheels to cassettes and SIS and derailuers. Also the differnent types of derailuers. Was looking for a history/tech head explaination. Sheldon does cover a lot of it... but in brief, and the web is not exactly a great "read," if you know what I mean.
genec is offline  
Old 06-23-05, 05:46 PM
  #24  
phidauex
Spoked to Death
 
phidauex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,335

Bikes: Salsa La Cruz w/ Alfine 8, Specialized Fuse Pro 27.5+, Surly 1x1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dynamic simulations of bicycle geometry and their effect on stability. Why positive camber? Why trail? Well, you'll see why! (Plus, the answer to why gyroscopic inertia is not a big player in bicycle stability.)

http://www.win.tue.nl/dynamo/bike/bike.html

peace,
sam
phidauex is offline  
Old 06-23-05, 07:47 PM
  #25  
jrowe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 795

Bikes: De Rosa Corum, custom Kalavinka, Bianchi RC Pista, Cannondale MT Track, Workcycles Gr8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
Wow, I asked something similar on the mechanics list a couple weeks ago and they just blew it off... probably did not want a mere cyclist knowing all the inner secrets.
This thread started on the Fixed gear & SS forum.
jrowe is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.