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Riding in the Rain: Excess Wear on the Bike?

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Riding in the Rain: Excess Wear on the Bike?

Old 11-22-18, 07:14 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
One both of these points, it depends. If you live in the Pacific NW, wet riding with rim brakes kills rims. I suspect the culprit is the thousands of square miles of volcanic stone, soil and dust.

If you use a sealed bearing BB that is made purely to race in non-water environments, riding in wet weather can kill them. Fenders (including a good, deep front flap) with these BBs make a big difference. I use Miche BBs on my good fix gear, a ti bike I ride all winter. The Miches because they are ISO taper and not too expensive. (I might go Phil next time around.) I will agree that the oh-so-common Shimano sealed BBs are very hard to kill. But my Sugino 75 cranks don't like their JIS taper.

Ben
I live in the mountain west where there are miles and miles of exposed granite to the west and miles and miles of exposed sand to the east. Neither have any less abrasive qualities then does volcanic material. In fact, granite contains 73% silica vs basalt’s 53% and sand is almost all silica. We also have less rain so our roads don’t get washed down as quickly. Water may make the grit stick but static does a fine job of making grit stick to rims and discs as well.

As to these mythic “racing bearings”, do you have an example? Every sealed cartridge bearing hub or sealed cartridge bearing BB or cartridge bearing headset is advertised and sold as being more durable because of the bearing seal. There would be little reason to use them otherwise.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
apparently cyccommute has never heard of water cutting before. I mean they don't do aircutting in industrial applications, they do water cutting for reasons.
Non sequitur much? “Water cutting” is cutting with a jet of water. It may have abrasives in it or it may not. The pressure of water is often sufficient to do the cutting. But water just placed on the surface of a material with grit isn’t “water cutting” and won’t cut any faster than doing dry cutting with an abrasive.

You can “dry cut” with just abrasives as well. Ever used a grinder? That’s the same as dry grit on a brake shoe.

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Old 11-22-18, 08:11 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by seamuis View Post
The issue isnít about certain kinds of weather, or the use of sealed bearings vs non. Itís all about foresight, preparedness and diligence.

A few few points:
1. Not all cartridge bearings are Ďsealedí. And referring to a cartridge bearing as a Ďsealed bearingí is wrong. There are also plenty of loose ball hubs and bbís that have seals to help prevent ingress. How well all of these work is.. well do you trust the water resistant seals in your watch or your Ďweatherproofí camera? How about that new smartphone? Yea me either. And the seals in a proper sealed cartridge bearing are just as effective or not as other seals. The best prevention of ingress is multiple-stage seals, like SKF bbís use, for example.


Yes, there are cartridge bearings that arenít sealed. I havenít seen one in too many bicycle applications. Adlll of the cartridge bearings Iíve seen in bicycle applications are sealed.

2. Most corrosion that occurs though, occurs long after your ride in the rain. This almost always comes from simply leaving a bike wet. The best way to prevent this is by simply drying the bike after itís been ridden in the wet. Iím a commuter, and as such I always carry a hand towel to completely dry off the bike, especially on parts that are more prone to corrosion. Chromed steel is a big one. Donít let the bike air dry, especially in a cold or humid enviroment and be surprised you got rust. And if theres rust where you can see, thereís likely more rust where you cant.
Oxidation, like most chemical processes is slowed by temperature. Evaporation is also slowed by temperature. Letting a bicycle dry in the cold isnít going to make it rust any more rapidly nor necessarily more slowing because of these competing processes. Cold weather, however, is usually accompained by road salt application because people in cars need it. Salt, specially the chloride ion in salt, is very efficient at oxidizing iron which then exchanges the chloride for oxygen. The released chloride can go back to pluck out more iron, which is exchanged with oxygen, and so on. Having salt water around speeds the process. As long as the chloride is in contact with the iron, it will happily remove iron atoms.

Similar chemistry happens with aluminum.

3. Use quality grease, especially this time of year. But nothing is more important than diligent maintenence. Doesnít matter if you have all Ďsealed bearingí everything or loose ball bearing everything. Take things apart, inspect them and if necessary clean and re-grease them. If youíre doing a lot of riding in the rain, I would recommend this every two to three months, especially if youíre usibg loose ball bearing components.
Taking the seals off of a seal cartridge bearing is more likely to damage the seals and result in ingress of water. Better to just leave them alone and use them until they fail. They are meant to be a consumable item and having one fail is not catastrophic. You simply replace the bearing for minimal cost and effort.

Loose bearings, on the other hand, do need to be maintained often. This is because the seals are usually less effective and ingress of contaiminants can result in damage to the cones and/or cup. The cones can be replaced but the cups canít. A damaged cup means a replaced wheel which is much more expensive than simply replacing the bearings.

4. Excess wear of brake pads and rims, is heavily dependent on where you live, but in general, water and other debris get mixed together with the brake dust thatís already on your pads and rims, when wet. This creates a bit of a Ďslurryí that will also contain whatever is on the road surface, trapped by the rain and kicked up by your tires. (Obviously things like full coverage fenders and even a fully enclosed chaincase make a massive difference here. They were invented for a reason.) in my case that extra ingredient is sand, as I live on the southeast coast of the US. In dry weather itís no biggie, in the rain, it becomes a big biggie. And it will absolutely create excess wear to pads and rims. Donít believe me? Ride a pair of black anodised rims with rim brakes in the rain. Nothing you can do to avoid it in the moment, but when drying off your bike after the ride, do a quick wipe down of both the rims and the pads to remove any debris.
Again, I donít agree. Sand is abrasive no matter what medium is used to carry it and sand is every where. Some of us even intentially go out and ride in dirty conditions. I can hear the sand grating on the rims whenever I apply the brakes. Granted it seems like the brakes sound more grating when they are wet but the grit is still there in dry conditions. My rims, tires and brake pads are covered in dust in the dry as well as in the wet.

Brake dust is also composed of mostly nonabrasive material. Brake pads are rubber and any dust created is just rubber. Aluminum oxide is an abrasive but itís also tough to get off the metal surface. The pads wear faster than the rims for this reason.

5. Check everything! Donít just focus on the obvious, like headsets and hubs. Check pedal bearings, freehub bearings, remove seat post and stem periodically (use framesaver in a steel frame). Remove and clean cassettes. Also remove tires and check for moisture on the inside of rims. Certain rim tapes (cotton tape like velox) can soak up and trap moisture and can corode nipples and eyelets.
I agree that seatpost should be greased but that is usually just a one time application. A layer grease is very effective at preventing galvanic corrosion and is very unlikely to be washed away. Most seat posts arenít lubricated from the factory which is why they can get stuck in a frame. But, once greased, itís not something that needs to be done all that often.

Cleaning cassettes may be done for aesthetic reasons but there is no real mechanical reason to clean them. They are a consumable like a chain.

As to Velox causing more corrosion, really? Water is going to come through the spoke nipple from above. The rim tape isnít going to cause any more corrosion than that. Iíve seen a lot of corroded spoke nipples in my time at my local co-op and few of them have been associated with Velox tapes. Most of them are on old bikes with factory...i.e. rubber...rim tapes. If anything, rims with Velox tape are more likely to be less corroded because those wheels are properly built with lubricated spoke nipples.

7. Clean your chain, regularly. Seriously. And donít over-lubricate it. Use a lubrication designed for use in wet conditions, but use it sparingly.
Why? A chain is a consumable. It will last about 3000 miles, no matter how much you clean it. I agree that people tend to over lubricate the chain but I also disagree with people using oil. If people didnít use oil, they wouldnít have to deal with the oily mess. I clean a chain once when I put it on the bike. It never gets cleaned again nor does it need to.

this time of year, where I live sees a lot of rain. I install fenders, but my daily rider/commuter has loose ball track hubs, loose ball bb, loose ball pedals, cartridge bearing headset, a cartridge bearing freewheel, rim brakes and a leather saddle. I replaced my chainring bolts for stainless, I use stainless cables and housings and a stainless chain (connex). A 41 year old steel frame with chrome. no corrosion and no worries. Also, no need for a Ďbeaterí bike. Those type of bikes are for people who are too lazy to properly take care of what they own.
Why use a cartridge bearing freewheel and everything else loose bearings? Cartridge bearings in all the places where you have loose bearings would make your maintenance schedule interval almost infinite.

I also donít have ďbeater bikesĒ. I have very nice bikes but I just happen to pick out parts and components that donít need a lot of hand holding. I do little to no regular maintenance on any of the 8 bikes I own. There is simply no need.
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Old 11-22-18, 09:07 AM
  #28  
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There is so much B.S. in this thread, I don't even know where to begin.

If water gets in your bearings, and inside your chain, it doesn't end well.

There are thousands of rental bikes all over China that have zero maintenance, the result isn't pretty, almost everything is rusted, worn out, or seized.

Rim brakes tend to grind when they get wet, this does cause accelerated wear, if this wan't true, disc and drum brakes would be useless.

Proper lubrication, and indoor storage (clean off the excess grit whenever possible) will reduce wear and tear significantly.

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Old 11-22-18, 09:34 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
This something that everyone says but Iím not sure I agree. Rain shouldnít make the brakes wear out any faster than dry. The grit is there no matter what. If anything, rain should keep the dust down so that the wheels donít have as much dust on them as the water washes it off.

Iíve also done a lot of mountain biking here fenders are a liability and dirt is ubiquitous. Iíve only worn out a couple of rims in 40 years of riding.

It's not the rain pe se that is hard on the rims but riding in damp conditions everything sticks to the rims and you end up with a slurry of abrasive material that wears the rims much faster than riding in dry conditions. I commute in the winter and with rim brakes I go through rims every year or two. Below is the last rim I wore out. Rears wear out faster as they get more junk thrown on them from the front. Best to use only front brakes in the winter.

I use have discs on my winter bike now so don't expect to be replacing rims again.

As far as the rest of the bike, it's carbon so rust isn't an issue. I dry the chain after riding in the rain and lube a little more often but other than that don't do any extra maintenance in the winter. If my bearings wear out I replace them but I'm interested in fooling around re-packing bearings. I rarely have to replace bearings so it's not an issue for me.


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Old 11-22-18, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post


Yes, there are cartridge bearings that arenít sealed. I havenít seen one in too many bicycle applications. Adlll of the cartridge bearings Iíve seen in bicycle applications are sealed.



Oxidation, like most chemical processes is slowed by temperature. Evaporation is also slowed by temperature. Letting a bicycle dry in the cold isnít going to make it rust any more rapidly nor necessarily more slowing because of these competing processes. Cold weather, however, is usually accompained by road salt application because people in cars need it. Salt, specially the chloride ion in salt, is very efficient at oxidizing iron which then exchanges the chloride for oxygen. The released chloride can go back to pluck out more iron, which is exchanged with oxygen, and so on. Having salt water around speeds the process. As long as the chloride is in contact with the iron, it will happily remove iron atoms.

Similar chemistry happens with aluminum.



Taking the seals off of a seal cartridge bearing is more likely to damage the seals and result in ingress of water. Better to just leave them alone and use them until they fail. They are meant to be a consumable item and having one fail is not catastrophic. You simply replace the bearing for minimal cost and effort.

Loose bearings, on the other hand, do need to be maintained often. This is because the seals are usually less effective and ingress of contaiminants can result in damage to the cones and/or cup. The cones can be replaced but the cups canít. A damaged cup means a replaced wheel which is much more expensive than simply replacing the bearings.



Again, I donít agree. Sand is abrasive no matter what medium is used to carry it and sand is every where. Some of us even intentially go out and ride in dirty conditions. I can hear the sand grating on the rims whenever I apply the brakes. Granted it seems like the brakes sound more grating when they are wet but the grit is still there in dry conditions. My rims, tires and brake pads are covered in dust in the dry as well as in the wet.

Brake dust is also composed of mostly nonabrasive material. Brake pads are rubber and any dust created is just rubber. Aluminum oxide is an abrasive but itís also tough to get off the metal surface. The pads wear faster than the rims for this reason.



I agree that seatpost should be greased but that is usually just a one time application. A layer grease is very effective at preventing galvanic corrosion and is very unlikely to be washed away. Most seat posts arenít lubricated from the factory which is why they can get stuck in a frame. But, once greased, itís not something that needs to be done all that often.

Cleaning cassettes may be done for aesthetic reasons but there is no real mechanical reason to clean them. They are a consumable like a chain.

As to Velox causing more corrosion, really? Water is going to come through the spoke nipple from above. The rim tape isnít going to cause any more corrosion than that. Iíve seen a lot of corroded spoke nipples in my time at my local co-op and few of them have been associated with Velox tapes. Most of them are on old bikes with factory...i.e. rubber...rim tapes. If anything, rims with Velox tape are more likely to be less corroded because those wheels are properly built with lubricated spoke nipples.



Why? A chain is a consumable. It will last about 3000 miles, no matter how much you clean it. I agree that people tend to over lubricate the chain but I also disagree with people using oil. If people didnít use oil, they wouldnít have to deal with the oily mess. I clean a chain once when I put it on the bike. It never gets cleaned again nor does it need to.



Why use a cartridge bearing freewheel and everything else loose bearings? Cartridge bearings in all the places where you have loose bearings would make your maintenance schedule interval almost infinite.

I also donít have ďbeater bikesĒ. I have very nice bikes but I just happen to pick out parts and components that donít need a lot of hand holding. I do little to no regular maintenance on any of the 8 bikes I own. There is simply no need.
Where do I even begin? Good god.

1. How many bicycle bearing applications are you intamely familiar with to make this statement? My guess is that itís complete BS. You canít say most are or arenít. My point was simply that not all cartridge bearings are sealed, but a lot of people, including manufacturers wrongly use the term Ďsealedí, and a lot of people who donít know better, think all cartridge bearings are sealed, by design. Some have seals but arenít specifically designed to stop heavy water ingress, but act more like dust shields. The main reason manufacturers (especially in lower cost products) use cartridge bearings today, is simply reduced cost of manufacture.
2.i didnít say anything about the speed of oxidation. My point was that if you leave a bike in an anviorment that doesnít inherently inhibit oxidation without drying the bike, youíre more likely over time to develop oxidation. My point was about leaving the bike to air dry, not the scientific rates of oxidation vs environment.
3.i said nothing about removing the seals on an actual sealed cartridge bearing, or a non sealed cartridge bearing for that matter. You assumed here, something I didnít say. Fair enough for further clarification, but you can take something apart, inspect and clean something without opening a cartridge bearing. If you want to advocate the Ďdisposableí nature of these items though (a mentality Iím strongly against as itís very wasteful) then you could just simply say it may be best to replace cartridge bearing more often. But you wonít say that, even if you donít know wether a particular cartridge is sealed or not, because it goes directly against the idea that cartridge bearing components are essentially maintenence free. They arenít. Also, there are non sealed cartridges that are designed to be taken apart: older dura ace and ultegra cartridge headsets for example.
4.the reason there is in fact more abrasion in the wet, is because the water traps particles and when mixed with brake dust, it creates a slurry that sticks to the rim and the pads. This doesnít happen in the dry. Again, ride a black anodised rim in the rain, and tell me there isnít a higher amount of abrasion. And yes Iím well aware there is sand and general abrasion in the dry, thatís kind of how the system works. This is why different pad compounds have been designed specifically for wet use.
5.if you think setpost greasing is a one time application, especially for someone riding regularly in the rain, youíre not very bright. Thatís extremely poor advice, especially with a steel frame, and would be asking for a chemically welded seatpost. Same for a stem. You know your advice is bad, which is why you closed it with Ďnot that oftení contradicting your opening statement. HOWEVER, none of this is relevant because my advice was geared toward developing a routine of regular and through maintenence, and as I stated, will depend on where you live and how much rain youíre dealing with. So the frequency with which you may clean and re-grease seatposts or stems will vary. The point was to not overlook anything.

no mechanical reason for cleaning a cassette? Seriously? Right, so no need to clean a chain either right? A drivetrain used in the rain, especially in a salty or sandy environment will pick up these particles. When the water is dried, these particles will be left behind. They will act as an abrasive and cause extra wear on the teeth and chain. If you have a chromed steel cassette or freewheel you can cause damage and then rust over time. There absolutely is a mechanical reason for checking and cleaning your drivetrain. This is a no brainier.
6.yep, cotton absorbs moisture. Inside a rim, it can be hard for that to evaporate. The more you ride in the rain, the more chance of corrosion. Riding through standing water? You bet moisture will get inside your rim. Iíve seen it many times on spoke hole eyelets nipples under rim tape that wasnít ever changed.
7. Not everyone is of the Ďthrow it awayí mindest thatís why. Some of us donít want rust on our chains, or excessive abrasive wear or added friction from a rusty chain covered in sand, salt or other debris. This affects the teeth of chainrings and sprockets as well. Pretty straightforward. The number of miles a chain lasts is directly related to the amount of torque applied in normal day to day use. 3k miles is a general rule, not an absolute. Itís general life is irrelevant to my point though.
8. My dura ace headset is cartridge, yes. Nonsealed. Easy to maintain. The cartridge isnít pressed into place. I use a cartridge bearing freewheel because I use a White industries freewheel, but I didnít purchase it because it was cartridge. I use track hubs because for the rest of the year is pretty dry and I like track hubs on my bike. Loose ball trackhubs are easier to maintain than loose ball road hubs. I use a loose ball bb, because I like them and I donít like the mindset of Ďdisposableí, the way you clearly do. Iím mindful about such things. With my routine maintenance these are trouble free, buttery smooth and I can refinish the race on a spindle if ever needed. You clearly think everyone has or should have your mindset, but I actually like maintenence. The entire point of my post was to offer helpful points to those who may not know. Your attempt to break it down consisted essentially of only Ďuse disposable stuff and not care about it.í And outright misinformation, such as saying rim brakes arenít more abrasive in the rain. Thatís fair enough for you, but donít try and tell others what they should do. I tried to be helpful, youíve only tried to be contrarian and attempt to look smart, and you havenít. Cheers.

Last edited by seamuis; 11-22-18 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 11-22-18, 10:27 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post


I live in the mountain west where there are miles and miles of exposed granite to the west and miles and miles of exposed sand to the east. Neither have any less abrasive qualities then does volcanic material. In fact, granite contains 73% silica vs basalt’s 53% and sand is almost all silica. We also have less rain so our roads don’t get washed down as quickly. Water may make the grit stick but static does a fine job of making grit stick to rims and discs as well.

As to these mythic “racing bearings”, do you have an example? Every sealed cartridge bearing hub or sealed cartridge bearing BB or cartridge bearing headset is advertised and sold as being more durable because of the bearing seal. There would be little reason to use them otherwise.



Non sequitur much? “Water cutting” is cutting with a jet of water. It may have abrasives in it or it may not. The pressure of water is often sufficient to do the cutting. But water just placed on the surface of a material with grit isn’t “water cutting” and won’t cut any faster than doing dry cutting with an abrasive.

You can “dry cut” with just abrasives as well. Ever used a grinder? That’s the same as dry grit on a brake shoe.


Wet soil will wear a plow blade faster than dry soil!

the same way a wet butt will chafe faster than a butt in moisture wicking fabric!

sticky, is a clue.

I do understand that never being wrong is a thing. P.S. just don't confuse never being wrong with being correct. It isn't the same thing.
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Old 11-22-18, 01:49 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by seamuis View Post


Where do I even begin? Good god.


You can begin by being respectful as per Forum rules. I disagree with you but I have not questioned your intelligence.

1. How many bicycle bearing applications are you intamely familiar with to make this statement? My guess is that itís complete BS. You canít say most are or arenít. My point was simply that not all cartridge bearings are sealed, but a lot of people, including manufacturers wrongly use the term Ďsealedí, and a lot of people who donít know better, think all cartridge bearings are sealed, by design. Some have seals but arenít specifically designed to stop heavy water ingress, but act more like dust shields. The main reason manufacturers (especially in lower cost products) use cartridge bearings today, is simply reduced cost of manufacture.
I am intimately familiar with a vast quantity of bicycle bearing applications. I have personally owned 38 bicycles over 40+ years or riding and I have done my own maintenance on all of them. I have owned, used, broken and worn out a lot of equipment over that period of time. I also happen to have volunteered nearly every Saturday over the last 8 years at my local co-op where I see every type of bearing for bicycles in every conceivable condition on over 11,000 bicycles. Iím pretty sure that I know a thing or two about bearings.

The kinds of seals Iím talking about are well sealed.

I agree that many bearings arenít ďsealedĒ against water ingress but those are generally old loose bearing designs with poor seals. Contrary to what some people state, I have never found ďcartridge bearingsĒ being used on inexpensive bicycles...and I work on a lot of very inexpensive bikes. All of them...without exception...have loose bearings in all applications and they are all nonsealed.

2.i didnít say anything about the speed of oxidation. My point was that if you leave a bike in an anviorment that doesnít inherently inhibit oxidation without drying the bike, youíre more likely over time to develop oxidation. My point was about leaving the bike to air dry, not the scientific rates of oxidation vs environment.
I know you didnít know say anything about the speed of oxidation. My point is that you didnít consider it. It has to be considered along with other factors when considering oxidation of metals.

By the way, simply wiping a bike dry does nothing to address the places where water might do damage. The places where rust can do damage is inside places where a surface wipe down will do not nothing.

3.i said nothing about removing the seals on an actual sealed cartridge bearing, or a non sealed cartridge bearing for that matter. You assumed here, something I didnít say. Fair enough for further clarification, but you can take something apart, inspect and clean something without opening a cartridge bearing. If you want to advocate the Ďdisposableí nature of these items though (a mentality Iím strongly against as itís very wasteful) then you could just simply say it may be best to replace cartridge bearing more often. But you wonít say that, even if you donít know wether a particular cartridge is sealed or not, because it goes directly against the idea that cartridge bearing components are essentially maintenence free. They arenít. Also, there are non sealed cartridges that are designed to be taken apart: older dura ace and ultegra cartridge headsets for example.
If you are going to ďcheckĒ sealed bearings, the only way to do that is to pry off the seals which can damage them. You canít tell if a sealed bearing has water or other contamination without opening them. Surface inspection just doesnít work. But they donít need to be inspected as they are sealed against the kind of contamination that will ruin loose bearing units.

As for disposablity, sealed cartridge bearings...which are used in far more applications than the unsealed ones you describe...arenít meant to be rebuilt. Even the unsealed ones canít be rebuilt. They are meant to be replaced when they fail. Loose bearing systems have some of the same aspects. The cones and bearings are meant to be used and replaced when they are worn. The difference is that sealed bearings last a lot longer with a lot less attention than loose units do. Mine have 25,000+ miles over nearly a decade on them without anything being done to the bearings. A similar loose bearing unit would have had cones, bearings and grease replaced much more often and thus cost far more.

The other type of cartridge bearing you are talking about is very rare in my experience and would require far more replacement and thus more cost.


4.the reason there is in fact more abrasion in the wet, is because the water traps particles and when mixed with brake dust, it creates a slurry that sticks to the rim and the pads. This doesnít happen in the dry. Again, ride a black anodised rim in the rain, and tell me there isnít a higher amount of abrasion. And yes Iím well aware there is sand and general abrasion in the dry, thatís kind of how the system works. This is why different pad compounds have been designed specifically for wet use.
Again, ďbrake dustĒ using rubber pads is not an abrasive. Nor, for that matter, is the brake dust from hub mounted disc pads. Both are relatively soft organic compounds.

The act of rubbing rubber across a soft metal surface in contact with another rubber surface that insulates the charges generated by that rubbing so dust particles will readily stick to the rim. I would hypothesize that the reason for increased wear in wet weather has less to do with the abrasive on the rim and far more to do with the increased used of the brakes due to the wet weather and the lack of adhesion of the rubber to the road. In other words, riders in rain (as well as snow and ice) are using their brakes more to slow than they do in dry conditions.

The rim failures Iíve experience have all been on mountain bikes or on bikes with high mileages. Both are more related to brake useage than to the conditions they are used under. Iím not exactly unfamiliar with riding in bad conditions, either.

5.if you think setpost greasing is a one time application, especially for someone riding regularly in the rain, youíre not very bright. Thatís extremely poor advice, especially with a steel frame, and would be asking for a chemically welded seatpost. Same for a stem. You know your advice is bad, which is why you closed it with Ďnot that oftení contradicting your opening statement. HOWEVER, none of this is relevant because my advice was geared toward developing a routine of regular and through maintenence, and as I stated, will depend on where you live and how much rain youíre dealing with. So the frequency with which you may clean and re-grease seatposts or stems will vary. The point was to not overlook anything.
Seatposts fit closely into the frame. Grease is hydrophobic and thus resists water infiltration. Properly greased, a post wonít lose the grease through any means that I can think of so there is no reason to constantly check the grease level on a seatpost. If you are in the habit of removing the post and removing the grease, you are much more likely to have problems with corrosion but left alone, the grease will do itís job without the need for constant replacement.

A threaded stem may require a bit more grease because the fit between the steer tube and the stem isnít a close as a seatpost but it still shouldnít need to be done regularly. Once or twice a century should be enough.

On the other hand, a ďbrightĒ person dumped the threaded system for the much more robust threadless system long ago. Iíve never found a threadless stem seized on a steer tube. Perhaps it could happen but it is much less likely.

no mechanical reason for cleaning a cassette? Seriously? Right, so no need to clean a chain either right? A drivetrain used in the rain, especially in a salty or sandy environment will pick up these particles. When the water is dried, these particles will be left behind. They will act as an abrasive and cause extra wear on the teeth and chain. If you have a chromed steel cassette or freewheel you can cause damage and then rust over time. There absolutely is a mechanical reason for checking and cleaning your drivetrain. This is a no brainier.
No, there is no need to clean a chain...if you use the proper lubricant. Oil has to be cleaned off because it gets all over everything. A wax based lubricant doesnít have to be cleaned off because it falls off the outside and doesnít get all over the bike, rider, house, cat and anything else within a quarter mile radius. Since the mileage on the chain is roughly the same and, the lubrication interval is the same in my experience, there is really no reason to use oil. I only have to clean my chain once and never have to clean cassettes.

As for the particles being left behind after water, itís the same as what I have described in dry conditions. The particles get there in any case.

6.yep, cotton absorbs moisture. Inside a rim, it can be hard for that to evaporate. The more you ride in the rain, the more chance of corrosion. Riding through standing water? You bet moisture will get inside your rim. Iíve seen it many times on spoke hole eyelets nipples under rim tape that wasnít ever changed.
The tape might hold some water but, in my experience, water is difficult to get into the rim in the first place. There arenít many openings. Even if the water does get into the rim, rim tapes are only in contact with the spokes in single walled rims. Water in a double walled rim is going to be in direct contact with the spokes.

But, as I said, water is in contact with the spoke/nipple interface from the outside which is far more damaging than the tape is.

And, do you take the tires off and dry the inside of the wheels as well? Thatís a lot of OCD there.


7. Not everyone is of the Ďthrow it awayí mindest thatís why. Some of us donít want rust on our chains, or excessive abrasive wear or added friction from a rusty chain covered in sand, salt or other debris. This affects the teeth of chainrings and sprockets as well. Pretty straightforward. The number of miles a chain lasts is directly related to the amount of torque applied in normal day to day use. 3k miles is a general rule, not an absolute. Itís general life is irrelevant to my point though.
There are a lot of items on a bike that are going to wear out no matter how much you clean. Chains donít last all that long. 3000 to 4000 miles is a pretty good average and it is fairly narrow. You wonít find a whole lot of chains falling outside of that range. Even if you do, itís not like youíll get double the mileage and save all that much money. You could clean a chain everyday (as has actually been suggested in the Forums) but youíll still get within the that average.

On the other hand, cleaning a chain everyday (or even often) produces more waste and disposal issue than not cleaning it.

Chainrings and cassettes or rear gears also have a wear interval that is relatively narrow. Itís longer but they are still consumables which means ďuse them and throw them awayĒ. Itís not like you can reforge the chainrings or recut the teeth to make them usable again.

Nor do I agree that the torque on the chain has much influence on the mileage. I use chains in mountain biking, commuting, loaded touring, loaded off-road touring as well as just recreational riding with low gears under a lot of torque. Mileage is still around 3000 miles.

8. My dura ace headset is cartridge, yes. Nonsealed. Easy to maintain. The cartridge isnít pressed into place. I use a cartridge bearing freewheel because I use a White industries freewheel, but I didnít purchase it because it was cartridge. I use track hubs because for the rest of the year is pretty dry and I like track hubs on my bike. Loose ball trackhubs are easier to maintain than loose ball road hubs. I use a loose ball bb, because I like them and I donít like the mindset of Ďdisposableí, the way you clearly do. Iím mindful about such things. With my routine maintenance these are trouble free, buttery smooth and I can refinish the race on a spindle if ever needed.
Iím not buying that loose ball track hubs are any easier to maintain than road hubs (or mountain bike hubs). They all use the same bearings, cups and cones and the same method of assembly. I do know a thing or two about hubs. Iíve serviced enough of them.



As for bottom brackets being ďless disposableĒ, I think you need to look into the definition of ďdisposableĒ. In my experience, loose bearing bottom brackets require more replacement of the spindles, bearings and even cups. Resurfacing a pitted spindle would result in a loose fit inside the cups and wouldnít be worth the effort. Itís also been my experience that spindles on bottom brackets need replacement regularly. Thatís the very definition of ďdisposableĒ.

Compare that to sealed cartridge bearings bottom brackets. 10,000 to 25,000 miles (+) isnít exactly part of the ďthrow awayĒ culture. It it lasts longer before disposal, itís cheaper in the long run.

You clearly think everyone has or should have your mindset, but I actually like maintenence. The entire point of my post was to offer helpful points to those who may not know. Your attempt to break it down consisted essentially of only Ďuse disposable stuff and not care about it.í And outright misinformation, such as saying rim brakes arenít more abrasive in the rain. Thatís fair enough for you, but donít try and tell others what they should do. I tried to be helpful, youíve only tried to be contrarian and attempt to look smart, and you havenít. Cheers.
My ďmindsetĒ is that you donít need to do more maintenance than you have to. If you use parts that donít require a lot of maintenance, you end up having to dispose of less stuff than if you donít. I care about my equipment which is why I choose equipment that is meant to last but doesnít require a whole lot of fiddling to do that. Thatís how I am trying to be helpful... by telling people that they donít need to be a OCD about bicycle maintenance as most people think.

You ďenjoyĒ maintenance. Bully for you!

I enjoy riding. By careful selection of parts and components and careful practices when it comes to lubricants as well as lots of experience with maintenance, I can do what needs to be done rather than what you may want me to do. As a result, I spend less in the long run on parts and I throw less away. Whoís the one embracing the ďdisposable cultureĒ here?

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
Wet soil will wear a plow blade faster than dry soil!

the same way a wet butt will chafe faster than a butt in moisture wicking fabric!

sticky, is a clue.

I do understand that never being wrong is a thing. P.S. just don't confuse never being wrong with being correct. It isn't the same thing.
Wet soil wears out a plow blade faster than dry soil because it gets used more. Most people donít plow dry land or sand. A wet butt will chafe a whole lot easier on a dry surface because friction is higher than on a lubricated surface. Thatís why many people use chamois cream.

A brake gets used more during wet conditions so it wears out faster because the tire has less friction on the road and the ride needs to control speed more. Like the plow in dry soil, brakes are just not used as much.
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Old 11-22-18, 07:54 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by seamuis View Post
Where do I even begin? Good god.

You'd have better luck getting the correct time of day from a stopped clock.

At least its correct twice a day, unlike some users here.
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Old 11-23-18, 04:56 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
It's not the rain pe se that is hard on the rims but riding in damp conditions everything sticks to the rims and you end up with a slurry of abrasive material that wears the rims much faster than riding in dry conditions. I commute in the winter and with rim brakes I go through rims every year or two. Below is the last rim I wore out. Rears wear out faster as they get more junk thrown on them from the front. Best to use only front brakes in the winter.

I use have discs on my winter bike now so don't expect to be replacing rims again.

As far as the rest of the bike, it's carbon so rust isn't an issue. I dry the chain after riding in the rain and lube a little more often but other than that don't do any extra maintenance in the winter. If my bearings wear out I replace them but I'm interested in fooling around re-packing bearings. I rarely have to replace bearings so it's not an issue for me.

I have the same 'maintenance schedule' that you do for rain riding.

Also, I tend to keep my rainy weather rides rather short so I'm hoping to minimize rim wear as a result. Not to mention I do wipe rims and pads more often during the winter.
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Old 03-22-19, 05:07 AM
  #35  
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Results of my test:
5 cruddy bikes were stored outside in the rain and sun since November.
All of these bikes had every metal wearable surface sprayed down or
wiped down with the triple combination of Boeshield T-9, LPS-3, and
ACF-50. This solution was also injected under pressure into all
bowden cables for brakes and shifters. Pedal bearings, BB's, and hubs
also received this solution injected under pressure. One of these
bikes is such a piece of junk none of my friends wanted to ride it, so
it has sat all winter. All 4 other bikes were occasionally ridden,
including through small creeks and fields of mud with no washing them
off. The cruddy Huffy 3" tire bike (Huffy's attempt at a fat tire
bike) recieved the worst abuse. In February, it was carried on a car
bike rack through mountain passes that had snowstorms and freezing
temps all the way to the coast, it was then ridden through the surf on
the beach after a dog, and then it was not washed. More lube was
added. No freshwater wash occurred, except for alternating rain and
snow on the drive back. . Once back, it has been ridden mercilessly,
through mud, wet grass, and rain and snow. Not washed once. Beach
sand is still visibly clinging to parts of the bike, along with great
gobs of mud. No Rust on this bike.

No rust has developed on ANY bike, or chain. All shifters and brakes
work as well as they did when new (these are all Walmart bikes, so
very poorly). The bike that sat unused since November.needed the
tires re-inflated, and water dumped out of the frame, but rides like
new.
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Old 03-22-19, 06:54 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by engine1776 View Post
Results of my test
never mind the results, I like the testing of the cheap fat bike!
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Old 03-22-19, 08:56 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
apparently cyccommute has never heard of water cutting before. I mean they don't do aircutting in industrial applications, they do water cutting for reasons.
Its the high , very high pressure in a concentrated very thin stream , thar does the cutting , far from what you do with your garden hose..

So, Laser cutting is just light?
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Old 03-22-19, 09:07 AM
  #38  
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Winter bike winner , an IGH , chain kept oiled, in side a chain case , and drum brake hubs,,,,

several square inches of friction material per shoe , 1 of 2 per wheel ..
Vs. less than 1 square inch per disc brake pad ..

I only did half, ... But, the hubs have performed reliably for 30+ years..
wear of friction material in shoes unperceivable..
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Old 03-22-19, 11:00 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Its the high , very high pressure in a concentrated very thin stream , thar does the cutting , far from what you do with your garden hose..

So, Laser cutting is just light?
And oxy/acetylene could be called "air cutting".
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Old 03-22-19, 05:44 PM
  #40  
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Rain will accelerate wear on the chain and braking surfaces, but not so much so long as you clean them up after your rides. Rainwater splashed off the ground contains a lot of grit, dirt, and other evil stuff, and gets this stuff in places it couldn't reach without the help of water.

I have been riding my main road bike for 21 years now, and through all kinds of weather, including water 5cm deep on many occasions. It shows the wear and tear, but rides as well today as when I got it. Over the years I have replaced the chain numerous times, as well as the brake pads, but it still runs the original Mavic Helium rims.
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Old 03-25-19, 09:32 PM
  #41  
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Riding in the rain is absolutely appropriate as long as you do basic maintenance, most importantly on the drive chain (most amount of moving and complex parts). After cleaning most of the dirt and mud off, I relube the drive chain with WPL wet chain lube (this includes the cassette, chain ring, and derailleur not just the chain). I prefer their wet chain lube as it actually cleans out the dirt when you spray water on it. wplbike.com/products/wet-bike-lube
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