Back when Schwinn was American-made....
11-01-18, 06:42 AM
#51
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
My recollection was that for a lot of people, even into the early 1970s, that heaviness was considered a feature, not a bug. It indicated that the bike was solidly built. You had to have better knowledge than the average consumer did at the time to know that was nonsense--you could have quality and lightness was just not something people had experienced yet.
11-01-18, 07:05 AM
#52
Schwinn Discovery
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma
Posts: 159
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
As far as I’m concerned the original Schwinn bicycles are still the best bicycles ever made. I had several as a kid and rarely did I have a problem with any of them (even with th abuse I gave them). I still have an urge to buy one when I walk by the bike rack at Target and Wally World.
You want quality in a modern bike, buy a Cannondale.
The nice Schwinn that I had was a 1983 World Tourist 5-speed in cinnamon red with Shimano freewheel chainwheel. The black grips had "Schwinn Approved" molded into them.
Some damn thief copped this bike when it was only a year old by cutting the chain lock and 1,000 miles were put on it including a 65-mile round trip from Novato to San Francisco, California in the summer of 1984. I was 19 in 1983 and this was my very first Schwinn. $279 back then from a Schwinn cycle shop in Mill Valley, California. I also got my first car and driver license that same year. A new Camaro. I got some money from a lawsuit from my mother. 1983: a new Schwinn, the dream came true after all the years of dept-store bikes and a new car!!
The 5-speed rear derailleur never missed a beat. Long-haul comfort on a men's 26" bike. I've always liked touring road bikes with straight handlebars. I never liked the look or feel of curved ten-speed bars. Some boys in school used to turn up the curved handlebars of their junior 24" Varsity and some older fellows liked to the same on their adult men's Varsity, Continental and other Schwinn ten-speed models: this was a common mod back then but I still thought it looked tacky. Pulling the tape off the curved bar and leaving it bare metal was also a common sight in the mid-1970's. You could get chrome fenders and a straight handlebar for your Schwinn ten-speed if you wanted to make it like a Collegiate or World Tourist tourer. Probably also had to change out the brake levers. On my new World Tourist, I soon pulled off the stock plastic thumb shifter on the handlebar and put a custom chrome Schwinn 5-speed shift lever on the stem of the handlebars reminiscent of 1970's Schwinn ten-speeds. Non-indexed shifting but still fun to shift by sound and feel.
https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/ima...ld_tourist.jpg
Last edited by JonBailey; 11-01-18 at 07:19 AM.
11-01-18, 07:26 AM
#54
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
The so-called SCHWINN bikes now are not the same anymore. If I were rich, I would buy a 1970's Varsity and restore it to OEM specs down to every last screw.
You want quality in a modern bike, buy a Cannondale.
The nice Schwinn that I had was a 1983 World Tourist 5-speed in cinnamon red with Shimano freewheel chainwheel. The black grips had "Schwinn Approved" molded into them.
Some damn thief copped this bike when it was only a year old by cutting the chain lock and 1,000 miles were put on it including a 65-mile round trip from Novato to San Francisco, California in the summer of 1984. I was 19 in 1983 and this was my very first Schwinn. $279 back then from a Schwinn cycle shop in Mill Valley, California. I also got my first car and driver license that same year. A new Camaro. I got some money from a lawsuit from my mother. 1983: a new Schwinn, the dream came true after all the years of dept-store bikes and a new car!!
The 5-speed rear derailleur never missed a beat. Long-haul comfort on a men's 26" bike. I've always liked touring road bikes with straight handlebars. I never liked the look or feel of curved ten-speed bars. Some boys in school used to turn up the curved handlebars of their junior 24" Varsity and some older fellows liked to the same on their adult men's Varsity, Continental and other Schwinn ten-speed models: this was a common mod back then but I still thought it looked tacky. Pulling the tape off the curved bar and leaving it bare metal was also a common sight in the mid-1970's. You could get chrome fenders and a straight handlebar for your Schwinn ten-speed if you wanted to make it like a Collegiate or World Tourist tourer. Probably also had to change out the brake levers. On my new World Tourist, I soon pulled off the stock plastic thumb shifter on the handlebar and put a custom chrome Schwinn 5-speed shift lever on the stem of the handlebars reminiscent of 1970's Schwinn ten-speeds. Non-indexed shifting but still fun to shift by sound and feel.
https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/ima...ld_tourist.jpg
You want quality in a modern bike, buy a Cannondale.
The nice Schwinn that I had was a 1983 World Tourist 5-speed in cinnamon red with Shimano freewheel chainwheel. The black grips had "Schwinn Approved" molded into them.
Some damn thief copped this bike when it was only a year old by cutting the chain lock and 1,000 miles were put on it including a 65-mile round trip from Novato to San Francisco, California in the summer of 1984. I was 19 in 1983 and this was my very first Schwinn. $279 back then from a Schwinn cycle shop in Mill Valley, California. I also got my first car and driver license that same year. A new Camaro. I got some money from a lawsuit from my mother. 1983: a new Schwinn, the dream came true after all the years of dept-store bikes and a new car!!
The 5-speed rear derailleur never missed a beat. Long-haul comfort on a men's 26" bike. I've always liked touring road bikes with straight handlebars. I never liked the look or feel of curved ten-speed bars. Some boys in school used to turn up the curved handlebars of their junior 24" Varsity and some older fellows liked to the same on their adult men's Varsity, Continental and other Schwinn ten-speed models: this was a common mod back then but I still thought it looked tacky. Pulling the tape off the curved bar and leaving it bare metal was also a common sight in the mid-1970's. You could get chrome fenders and a straight handlebar for your Schwinn ten-speed if you wanted to make it like a Collegiate or World Tourist tourer. Probably also had to change out the brake levers. On my new World Tourist, I soon pulled off the stock plastic thumb shifter on the handlebar and put a custom chrome Schwinn 5-speed shift lever on the stem of the handlebars reminiscent of 1970's Schwinn ten-speeds. Non-indexed shifting but still fun to shift by sound and feel.
https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/ima...ld_tourist.jpg
You would probably do yourself a lot more good going to the vintage bike forums and seeing about how you might acquire decent old Schwinns for short money rather than posting "my Amazon bike sucks" one more time.
Old Schwinns are really common, you could probably get set up without spending as much as you did on your Amazon Schwinn.
11-01-18, 07:37 AM
#55
Schwinn Discovery
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma
Posts: 159
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
You would probably do yourself a lot more good going to the vintage bike forums and seeing about how you might acquire decent old Schwinns for short money rather than posting "my Amazon bike sucks" one more time.
Old Schwinns are really common, you could probably get set up without spending as much as you did on your Amazon Schwinn.
Old Schwinns are really common, you could probably get set up without spending as much as you did on your Amazon Schwinn.
11-01-18, 07:59 AM
#56
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,608
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10954 Post(s)
Liked 7,482 Times
in
4,184 Posts
I was 10 years old and My birthday gift was a used Raleigh Grand Prix.
I wasn't spoiled rotten by any means, but I can tell you in my opinion why Schwinn went belly up. They sold crap. Well I thought it was crap compared to my Grand Prix.
Schwinn was on par with western flyers. lol close enough anyways.
didn't matter anyways all the other kids wanted GT or mongoose BMX bikes.
If I was spoiled rotten I would have had a BMX bike. I was refused, and I asked for a BMX bike a lot
I wasn't spoiled rotten by any means, but I can tell you in my opinion why Schwinn went belly up. They sold crap. Well I thought it was crap compared to my Grand Prix.
Schwinn was on par with western flyers. lol close enough anyways.
didn't matter anyways all the other kids wanted GT or mongoose BMX bikes.
If I was spoiled rotten I would have had a BMX bike. I was refused, and I asked for a BMX bike a lot
I chuckle when I read comments from posters on the C&V forum who worked in shops back then. The short rants they go on about how terrible the QC was is funny- misaligned dropouts, different fork rake, seatstays not brazed to seat tube, brake bridge terrible out of alignment, etc.
The frame builder I worked with last winter used to build for a shop that sold Raleigh and he has a love for old Raliegh bikes and described a period of time where he viewed them as a partially finished product due to needing to do so much correction work during the build up process.
Then Raleigh outsourced to Japan and built in Kent WA and thats a whole other period of time(with less frame issues).
Rough to claim that spoiled rotten = having a BMX bike. Really rough.
11-01-18, 08:03 AM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: The Motor City
Posts: 70
Bikes: Fuji Finest, Trek 460, 970, Miyata One Ten, Maruishi 606, Univega Alpina Uno LX, Browning Grade V
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
The so-called SCHWINN bikes now are not the same anymore. If I were rich, I would buy a 1970's Varsity and restore it to OEM specs down to every last screw.
You want quality in a modern bike, buy a Cannondale.
The nice Schwinn that I had was a 1983 World Tourist 5-speed in cinnamon red with Shimano freewheel chainwheel. The black grips had "Schwinn Approved" molded into them.
Some damn thief copped this bike when it was only a year old by cutting the chain lock and 1,000 miles were put on it including a 65-mile round trip from Novato to San Francisco, California in the summer of 1984. I was 19 in 1983 and this was my very first Schwinn. $279 back then from a Schwinn cycle shop in Mill Valley, California. I also got my first car and driver license that same year. A new Camaro. I got some money from a lawsuit from my mother. 1983: a new Schwinn, the dream came true after all the years of dept-store bikes and a new car!!
The 5-speed rear derailleur never missed a beat. Long-haul comfort on a men's 26" bike. I've always liked touring road bikes with straight handlebars. I never liked the look or feel of curved ten-speed bars. Some boys in school used to turn up the curved handlebars of their junior 24" Varsity and some older fellows liked to the same on their adult men's Varsity, Continental and other Schwinn ten-speed models: this was a common mod back then but I still thought it looked tacky. Pulling the tape off the curved bar and leaving it bare metal was also a common sight in the mid-1970's. You could get chrome fenders and a straight handlebar for your Schwinn ten-speed if you wanted to make it like a Collegiate or World Tourist tourer. Probably also had to change out the brake levers. On my new World Tourist, I soon pulled off the stock plastic thumb shifter on the handlebar and put a custom chrome Schwinn 5-speed shift lever on the stem of the handlebars reminiscent of 1970's Schwinn ten-speeds. Non-indexed shifting but still fun to shift by sound and feel.
https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/ima...ld_tourist.jpg
You want quality in a modern bike, buy a Cannondale.
The nice Schwinn that I had was a 1983 World Tourist 5-speed in cinnamon red with Shimano freewheel chainwheel. The black grips had "Schwinn Approved" molded into them.
Some damn thief copped this bike when it was only a year old by cutting the chain lock and 1,000 miles were put on it including a 65-mile round trip from Novato to San Francisco, California in the summer of 1984. I was 19 in 1983 and this was my very first Schwinn. $279 back then from a Schwinn cycle shop in Mill Valley, California. I also got my first car and driver license that same year. A new Camaro. I got some money from a lawsuit from my mother. 1983: a new Schwinn, the dream came true after all the years of dept-store bikes and a new car!!
The 5-speed rear derailleur never missed a beat. Long-haul comfort on a men's 26" bike. I've always liked touring road bikes with straight handlebars. I never liked the look or feel of curved ten-speed bars. Some boys in school used to turn up the curved handlebars of their junior 24" Varsity and some older fellows liked to the same on their adult men's Varsity, Continental and other Schwinn ten-speed models: this was a common mod back then but I still thought it looked tacky. Pulling the tape off the curved bar and leaving it bare metal was also a common sight in the mid-1970's. You could get chrome fenders and a straight handlebar for your Schwinn ten-speed if you wanted to make it like a Collegiate or World Tourist tourer. Probably also had to change out the brake levers. On my new World Tourist, I soon pulled off the stock plastic thumb shifter on the handlebar and put a custom chrome Schwinn 5-speed shift lever on the stem of the handlebars reminiscent of 1970's Schwinn ten-speeds. Non-indexed shifting but still fun to shift by sound and feel.
https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/ima...ld_tourist.jpg
11-01-18, 08:15 AM
#58
Schwinn Discovery
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma
Posts: 159
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
My cinnamon red frame had gold lettering. I read that 1980 was the last year for Chicago-made Schwinn and they went to Japan in 1981.
In the 1970's and 1980's Japan made was high quality including Toyota and Honda cars, Honda motorcycles and consumer electronics.
Just think of those expensive Sony Trinitron televisions in 1979 and those Sony and Technics home stereos.
11-01-18, 08:21 AM
#59
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,969
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,043 Posts
11-01-18, 08:27 AM
#60
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,969
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,043 Posts
Baloney, I had a 1969 Sprite with the S5 IGH, a 1972 Sports with the 3 speed hub, and a 1976 Superbe with 3 speed hub. All were excellent bicycles with zero quality problems.
11-01-18, 08:29 AM
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 63
Bikes: Bianchi Eros, Bianchi Intenso, Lemond Zurich, Stowe, Trek 930
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
"...About 4 years latter, and after about 5,000 miles, the gears in the hub wore out and it was reduced to scrap. "
There's a difference between "cheap" and "frugal". My parents bought Schwinn because they knew the bikes wouldn't fall apart. Mine actually came from a neighbor, bought second hand. Frugal and cheap my parents were.
I had an Orange Krate, then a Varsity during the 10-speed craze. I beat the crap out of both of those bikes and never had any problems. It is too bad that there are cheap knockoff bikes that say "Schwinn" on them, but even the young hipster types pay good money for the real deal Chicago Schwinns. They're too young to be on a nostalgia trip so it must be the legendary ruggedness of those battlewagons.
There's a difference between "cheap" and "frugal". My parents bought Schwinn because they knew the bikes wouldn't fall apart. Mine actually came from a neighbor, bought second hand. Frugal and cheap my parents were.
I had an Orange Krate, then a Varsity during the 10-speed craze. I beat the crap out of both of those bikes and never had any problems. It is too bad that there are cheap knockoff bikes that say "Schwinn" on them, but even the young hipster types pay good money for the real deal Chicago Schwinns. They're too young to be on a nostalgia trip so it must be the legendary ruggedness of those battlewagons.
11-01-18, 09:04 AM
#62
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,969
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,043 Posts
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 11-01-18 at 09:15 AM.
11-01-18, 09:09 AM
#63
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
But to get a mint-fresh paint job with all correct frame labels and markings from a custom bike painter is a lot more money than I care to spend right now. The best I can do with my current "Schwinn" Discover is swap out bad components for better aftermarket ones that's not too expensive such as the 7-speed freewheel, solid rear axle and chain. The bike I have has a nice frame but driveline parts that lack quality materials and precision out of the box. The stock lateral-pull rim brakes are great through.
So basically, the whole point of this thread is you don't like your current bike, and you won't accept a bike more to your liking if it doesn't have mint-fresh paint and labels? Or is it you actually got a nice frame and brakes for a relatively low price?
11-01-18, 09:09 AM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,857
Bikes: Road bike, Hybrid, Gravel, Drop bar SS, hard tail MTB
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1218 Post(s)
Liked 298 Times
in
214 Posts
In my opinion the best Schwinn, were the Schwinns made in the Giant factories
11-01-18, 09:14 AM
#65
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,969
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,043 Posts
No the point to this thread is that there is no point, it is just clueless babbling about dreams of the good old days before life went off of the rails for a poster or two.
11-01-18, 09:18 AM
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 63
Bikes: Bianchi Eros, Bianchi Intenso, Lemond Zurich, Stowe, Trek 930
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
These two real deal Chicago Schwinns were bought by an oldster (me) in 2006 for $5 each at garage sales and their ruggedness and reliability still serve me well with no fuss or muss. Only modification was replacing drop handlebars for upright bars from my own parts bin.
11-01-18, 09:24 AM
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,229
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,520 Times
in
7,324 Posts
11-01-18, 09:40 AM
#68
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,969
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,043 Posts
Occasionally, a trash day provides a real bargain. This bike had a Sachs Pentasport 5 speed IGH with coaster brake and was tossed out in Germany and luckily I found it.
11-01-18, 09:46 AM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
I find these Schwinn threads fascinating as they (Schwinn's) were not a "thing" up here on the west coast. Raleighs and various Murray types dominate and the nostalgic link is often something to do with the Fred Deeley group.
I agree the thread seems to lack umpff and smacks of bitter nostalgia. If the OP wants an old Schwinn just go out and buy one. life is too short to complain about something you don't have when it is so easily within your ability to grasp. That's the great thing about bicycles as a hobby.
About a month ago I said to myself: Self, I'd like a bike with good vintage decals to do a classic FG restoration on. A month later I found a well preserved barn stored Raleigh for $80. You just have to look.
I agree the thread seems to lack umpff and smacks of bitter nostalgia. If the OP wants an old Schwinn just go out and buy one. life is too short to complain about something you don't have when it is so easily within your ability to grasp. That's the great thing about bicycles as a hobby.
About a month ago I said to myself: Self, I'd like a bike with good vintage decals to do a classic FG restoration on. A month later I found a well preserved barn stored Raleigh for $80. You just have to look.
11-01-18, 10:20 AM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: The Motor City
Posts: 70
Bikes: Fuji Finest, Trek 460, 970, Miyata One Ten, Maruishi 606, Univega Alpina Uno LX, Browning Grade V
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
My college bike was a cross between a scrapped Continental frame and two speed Traveler components. A tough bike that could take any abuse - what those Chicago Schwinns were the very best at.
In the words of bluesman Howlin' Wolf :
Some folk built like this, some folk built like that
In the words of bluesman Howlin' Wolf :
Some folk built like this, some folk built like that
But the way I'm built, you shouldn't call me fat
Because I'm built for comfort, I ain't built for speed
But I got everything all the good girls need
After working through high school at a shop that carried a number of French, British and Japanese lines as well as Schwinn, my family moved in '74 and I began working at a high volume Schwinn-only dealer through my college years. All the people there rode Schwinns, mostly Super Sports, Paramounts for a couple. It was like a parallel universe - everybody laughed at my Fuji Finest as Japanese crap. By the end of that first summer most all had moved to LeTours and World Voyagers, except the Paramount owners. To top it off, one guy started coming to work in a Honda Civic, right in the Car Capital of America. The bubble had burst.
Because I'm built for comfort, I ain't built for speed
But I got everything all the good girls need
After working through high school at a shop that carried a number of French, British and Japanese lines as well as Schwinn, my family moved in '74 and I began working at a high volume Schwinn-only dealer through my college years. All the people there rode Schwinns, mostly Super Sports, Paramounts for a couple. It was like a parallel universe - everybody laughed at my Fuji Finest as Japanese crap. By the end of that first summer most all had moved to LeTours and World Voyagers, except the Paramount owners. To top it off, one guy started coming to work in a Honda Civic, right in the Car Capital of America. The bubble had burst.
11-01-18, 11:14 AM
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,861
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6952 Post(s)
Liked 10,958 Times
in
4,685 Posts
As for Schwinn: they were done in by many factors. Seems kind of pointless to make a post about it when the ground has already been amply covered in many other sources.
Last edited by Koyote; 11-01-18 at 11:21 AM.
11-01-18, 11:48 AM
#74
Zip tie Karen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,004
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times
in
806 Posts
Hey! I still ride Motobecanes. Wait. You mean that they're NOT made in France???