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Shimano 105 rd compatible with larger than 32t cassette?

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Shimano 105 rd compatible with larger than 32t cassette?

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Old 11-07-18, 10:39 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
http://www.wiggle.com/ta-110-pcd-zephyr-inner-road-chainring/
thanks for the link. that might be another option.
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Old 11-07-18, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
I asked a mechanic the other day the exact same question as I'd seen a couple of videos of people doing it and he thought you could go to 34t fairly easily as Shimano's nimbers were relatively conservative and "could" go to 36t but he felt that would eventually lead to breakages as it'd put it under quite a bit of pressure.

Flip side I was looking at the Specialized Seq Elite .... whether it's because of the specific aftermarket sunrace cassette but it's 36t .... the bike in my opinion for my uses offered the perfect gearing

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/se...elite/p/129126

SRAM PG-1170 (Force) and PG-1130 (Rival) cassettes are available in 11-36 size. These come on new bikes.

Mountain bikes routinely come with 45 tooth Shimano cassettes and 50 tooth SRAM cassettes.

None of these break due to pressure.


-Tim-
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Old 11-07-18, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
SRAM PG-1170 (Force) and PG-1130 (Rival) cassettes are available in 11-36 size. These come on new bikes.

Mountain bikes routinely come with 45 tooth Shimano cassettes and 50 tooth SRAM cassettes.

None of these break due to pressure.


-Tim-
the 'it' that the mechanic tjought might break due to too much pressure is the rear derailleur.
it isnt the cassette.

he thinks the rear derailleur would be too strained to last and break due to use over the stated capacity.
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Old 11-07-18, 06:57 PM
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The usual thing to do in these circumstances, i.e., 50/34 rings teamed up with a 11x34 cassette, is to put the chain on the big ring and purposefully shift onto the 34t cog to make sure you don't break anything if you accidently end up there. If you can shift there without a problem you're good to go without adding extra links since... you never plan to cross-chain like that anyway.

With the above setup it's been my experience that I never need a bigger cog than 25t when in the big ring. Change rings and shifting down 2 or 3 (21-19t) puts you in the next lowest gears. From there you can just leave it in the small ring and still have 5 or 6 taller cogs (just 2-tooth jumps to 27t) at your disposal, if so inclined, including a final 4-tooth, last ditch 1:1 bailout gear.
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Old 11-07-18, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
the 'it' that the mechanic tjought might break due to too much pressure is the rear derailleur.
it isnt the cassette.

he thinks the rear derailleur would be too strained to last and break due to use over the stated capacity.
with the proper length chain this wouldn't be an issue. Your mechanic is either hyper conservative or clueless or doesnt understand your question.
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Old 11-08-18, 03:19 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
with the proper length chain this wouldn't be an issue. Your mechanic is either hyper conservative or clueless or doesnt understand your question.
If it's so definitively clear and not likely to cause any issues why do Shimano only suggest up to 32t on the older and 34t on the latest version ..... or are they clueless as well and you should be advising them?
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Old 11-08-18, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
here's what your getting with the swap...

11-34 gearing (11-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34t)

vs.

11-32 gearing (
11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32t)

i.e., evenly spaced gears from 13-to-27 compared to 3t jumps on either side of the 25-cog. If you spend a lot of time spinning 12t with your 50t ring you might be disappointed; otherwise, I'll probably find more uses for a 30t than a 32t and if needed, now you have a 1-to-1 gear in reserve. All of the 19 'comfort/endurance/gravel' models with 105-gearing probably will have this latest arrangement.
When I was recently modding and old bike to have lower gears, I decided to go with a SRAM 12-32 cassette - even though the bike is ten-speed. At this point, I rarely (if ever) use the 50/11, so a 50/12 high gear suits me just fine and removes one gap further up the cassette where I spend more time.

I don't know if anyone makes 12-34 or 12-36 cassettes in ten or eleven speed, but it's something to think about it.
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Old 11-08-18, 07:19 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
with the proper length chain this wouldn't be an issue. Your mechanic is either hyper conservative or clueless or doesnt understand your question.
It isn't simply a question of the chain length, though. Derailleurs designed to handle bigger cassettes are angled differently so that the jockey wheel doesn't come into contact with the big cassette. My inclination would be to go with a more compact chainset, if that's an option.
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Old 11-08-18, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
here's what your getting with the swap...

11-34 gearing (11-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34t)

vs.

11-32 gearing (
11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32t)

i.e., evenly spaced gears from 13-to-27 compared to 3t jumps on either side of the 25-cog. If you spend a lot of time spinning 12t with your 50t ring you might be disappointed; otherwise, I'll probably find more uses for a 30t than a 32t and if needed, now you have a 1-to-1 gear in reserve. All of the 19 'comfort/endurance/gravel' models with 105-gearing probably will have this latest arrangement.
Is that necessarily a good thing, though? Even jumps don't equate to even changes in gear inch and I assume the 11-32 is designed with that fact in mind.
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Old 11-08-18, 08:04 AM
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If the chain is too short then it can rip the rear derailleur off.

The only way to be sure is put the bike on a stand and pedal/shift very slowly.

I intentionally sized my chain too big for this reason. It was too slack at the other end and so I took some links out and tested again. I was very careful the first time I tried the big/big combo.

Again, the only way to know for sure is to test.

My customers in the IT industry do this all the time, ask me if an unsupported configuration will work. My reply is always, "It might but if something goes wrong we are going to ask you to return it to a supported configuration before we troubleshoot."


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Old 11-08-18, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
If it's so definitively clear and not likely to cause any issues why do Shimano only suggest up to 32t on the older and 34t on the latest version ..... or are they clueless as well and you should be advising them?
Shots fired!

Shimano's stated capacity for rear derailleurs has been conservative for over 30 years. Since none of us work for Shimano and I doubt anyone has emailed Shimano to ask, nobody can say for sure why they are conservative on their derailleur capacity.
My guess is that its better to be conservative and not suggest something that would push the equipment to the limit since if it breaks, there would be more complaints and a hit to Shimano's reputation.
It doesnt appear that anyone thinks Shimano is clueless as to the true limits and you seem to be the only one even asking that.

Regardless of Shimano's reason(s) for claiming conservative capacity limits, reality shows that rear derailleurs(thru the decades and both road as well as MTB) can handle cassettes with 2 more teeth, and sometimes even 4 more teeth, without modification.
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Old 11-08-18, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Shots fired!
.
IF they were ... they certainly weren't aimed at you ....and in fact it wasn't shot's fired but a defense in response to shots fired by the divine authority.

I do agree they possibly are being conservative as that's how you build a reputation for quality rather than something that falls apart but personally I'd rather be riding something I know will work well over a period of time rather than just waiting for it to break and I think that's the point the mechanic was trying to make as well ..... sure you can do it but on your head be it and would I recommend it as a long term reliable solution .... probably not
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Old 11-08-18, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
If it's so definitively clear and not likely to cause any issues why do Shimano only suggest up to 32t on the older and 34t on the latest version ..... or are they clueless as well and you should be advising them?
apparently I should.
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Old 11-08-18, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
apparently I should.
Apply ... see if the want you
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Old 11-08-18, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
Apply ... see if the want you
you're hilarious.
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Old 11-08-18, 11:28 AM
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Shimano has aimed it's new HG700 cassette at those who wish to upgrade their older rigs--e.g., it even comes with a spacer that can be removed to make it compatible with older 10-speed freewheels.
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Old 11-08-18, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
IF they were ... they certainly weren't aimed at you ....and in fact it wasn't shot's fired but a defense in response to shots fired by the divine authority.

I do agree they possibly are being conservative as that's how you build a reputation for quality rather than something that falls apart but personally I'd rather be riding something I know will work well over a period of time rather than just waiting for it to break and I think that's the point the mechanic was trying to make as well ..... sure you can do it but on your head be it and would I recommend it as a long term reliable solution .... probably not
it is a completly reliable long term solution. I put 3000 miles on one such setup on a masi randonnuer. I dont have the bike anymore so maybe it exploded for the next guy but I doubt it. The crux of the biscuit is making sure the top jockey wheel does not foul the largest sprocket on your cassette. This requires running through the gears on your stand. It isn't going to change over time an suddenly fail. Different length chains can effect the ability of the derailleur to foul/not foul on the largest cog but in the case of a modern 105 you wont find an issue with a 34 tooth cassette.
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Old 11-08-18, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
When I was recently modding and old bike to have lower gears, I decided to go with a SRAM 12-32 cassette - even though the bike is ten-speed. At this point, I rarely (if ever) use the 50/11, so a 50/12 high gear suits me just fine and removes one gap further up the cassette where I spend more time.

I don't know if anyone makes 12-34 or 12-36 cassettes in ten or eleven speed, but it's something to think about it.
Interesting you mentioned that... the cassette comes in parts-- the largest cogs are fixed and all but the smallest are loose--i.e., the 11t cog spins on (locks the cassette). Changing out the OEM cassette leaves me with some spare rings which I checked out because it has a 12t cog but... you can't replace the 11t with the older cassette's 12t as it's not a locking ring. So, anyone doing the upgrade might want to see if a 12t locking ring is available if a 12x34 cassette would be the ticket-- you'd have 12-13-15... instead of 11-13-15...
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Old 11-08-18, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
IF they were ... they certainly weren't aimed at you ....and in fact it wasn't shot's fired but a defense in response to shots fired by the divine authority.

I do agree they possibly are being conservative as that's how you build a reputation for quality rather than something that falls apart but personally I'd rather be riding something I know will work well over a period of time rather than just waiting for it to break and I think that's the point the mechanic was trying to make as well ..... sure you can do it but on your head be it and would I recommend it as a long term reliable solution .... probably not
The point is the OP (or anyone) wants a 34 tooth rear for various reasons. The current 32 is not enough. There are three choices. Do nothing and continue to desire a 34, put a 34 on and use the existing RD until it "breaks", buy a 34 and a new RD and gently place the old RD on the shelf. Why buy a new RD now? A two tooth increase on a conservatively rated RD is not pushing any limits. Ranting now but...
I bought my bike to do what I need it to do. I own the bike. Many people are owned by their bike and do what they think is "best" for the bike regardless of what they want to do. That concept is strange to me. Not riding today because it is a little wet out? Your baby might get wet or dirty, OMG!!! You really want more gearing and it would make your ride better but there might be a little more pressure on the RD? Think of the bike before you do that, the torture and damage!!! We are not talking about running into walls, purposefully throwing the bike down because you can. It is using a piece of equipment in anormal realm.

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Old 11-08-18, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Shots fired!

Shimano's stated capacity for rear derailleurs has been conservative for over 30 years. Since none of us work for Shimano and I doubt anyone has emailed Shimano to ask, nobody can say for sure why they are conservative on their derailleur capacity.
My guess is that its better to be conservative and not suggest something that would push the equipment to the limit since if it breaks, there would be more complaints and a hit to Shimano's reputation.
It doesnt appear that anyone thinks Shimano is clueless as to the true limits and you seem to be the only one even asking that.

Regardless of Shimano's reason(s) for claiming conservative capacity limits, reality shows that rear derailleurs(thru the decades and both road as well as MTB) can handle cassettes with 2 more teeth, and sometimes even 4 more teeth, without modification.
Yes, the derailleurs can handle more teeth than they are specified for. But that does not necessarily mean that they will do so without making other changes somewhere like in chain length.

With a Shimano 105 5600 GS rear derailleur the specs are for cassettes up to 11 min, 27 max. And the max capacity is 37 teeth or less.

I have a 50/39/30 in front, and my bike came with a 12-25 cassette. So 50+25=75, and 30+12=42. 75-42=33t.
  • 12 small cog is greater than 11t min spec. OK.
  • 25 large cog is less than 27t max spec. OK.
  • 33t differential is less than 37t max spec. OK.
Then I switched out to an 11-28 rear cassette:
  • 11 small cog is equal to 11t min spec. OK.
  • 28 large cog is greater than 27t max spec. OUT OF SPEC.
  • 35t differential is less than 37t max spec. OK.
Symptom: Because 28t largest cog is larger than 27t spec, I had some rubbing of the jockey wheel, but ONLY when the FD was shifted into the 30t chainring. The easiest solution was to trim down on the B-screw, altering the balance enough to pull the jockey wheel away from the rear cassette. This made shifting less crisp. So I considered a different way to get to the right balance: Reduce chain size. Taking a link (maybe I took two, can't recall) out of the chain allowed me to back out the B-screw a bit so that the derailleur creates better chain wrap on the smaller cogs, while still having the proper tension balance to keep the RD's jockey wheel off the rear cassette.

But for the 5600 RD, I'm convinced that I've found the maximum commonly available ten-speed rear cassette that will work with this combination. It's possible that if a 29t exists (which would put me two teeth out of spec) it could be made to work if my smallest chainring were 32t or 34t instead of 30. It's about getting the correct balance, and apparently that's harder to achieve with large cassettes and small chainrings.

Newer versions of the Shimano 105 RD have greater capacity both in overall capacity, and in largest rear cog. If I ever arrive at a day where I feel like swapping out my crankset to a compact double, I would probably also swap out the RD to a newer model that can accommodate a 32t cassette. And by the time I've done all that I may as well swap out the shifter and go with a much newer 11sp drivetrain.
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Old 11-08-18, 02:41 PM
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To put things in perspective, we're talking about Shimano's "medium" size 105 RD which is the longest and... the 34t cassette was available a year earlier on the Ultegra line and... while you're not spending a lot of time in 34x34,... it's 68 teeth... Big deal for a RD that'll easily handle 50x34 if you're not paying much attention what you're doing? I don't think so. Riding e.g. 50x27 is probably working the RD more...
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Old 11-08-18, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
you're hilarious.
Never going to be as hilarious as you though
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Old 11-08-18, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by u235 View Post
The point is the OP (or anyone) wants a 34 tooth rear for various reasons. The current 32 is not enough.
Go back and actually read what I initially wrote before making a comment like this!!!!!

I asked a mechanic the other day the exact same question as I'd seen a couple of videos of people doing it and he thought you could go to 34t fairly easily as Shimano's nimbers were relatively conservative and "could" go to 36t but he felt that would eventually lead to breakages as it'd put it under quite a bit of pressure.
Is there a part of that you don't actually understand or isn't clear ?????

I totally agree that 32 in an ideal world isn't enough for the riding I do and that was why I asked the question in the 1st place .... his answer I believe was referring to the older system saying you could go the 34t ... I'm sure if you asked him about the newer which is rated to 34t anyway ... one step up to 36 is probably doable as well but to go much beyond that I imagine is potentially pushing it to it's max.

I really can't understand why ... where I've simply passed on a comment from someone that I respect and most threads on the internet have backed up ... some complete D...heads are suddenly jumping all over it ... maybe I should have just told the OP to stick a 42 on there and see how it works out.

And by the way, all of you saying yes you can do this and go to 34 / 36 ... please continue to put it in writing in public and when it breaks he can come back to you for the cost of fixing it as he followed your advice ... contrary to the manufacturers recommendations because you know better.
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Old 11-08-18, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
I really can't understand why ... where I've simply passed on a comment from someone that I respect and most threads on the internet have backed up ... some complete D...heads are suddenly jumping all over it ... maybe I should have just told the OP to stick a 42 on there and see how it works out.

And by the way, all of you saying yes you can do this and go to 34 / 36 ... please continue to put it in writing in public and when it breaks he can come back to you for the cost of fixing it as he followed your advice ... contrary to the manufacturers recommendations because you know better.
Most threads on the internet have backed what up?
I certainly don't see most threads on the internet say users should stick to the manufacturer's stated limit.
that cant be what you say is backed up by most of the internet, right?


as for that last post, goodness thats over the top. I have never heard of a modern Shimano 11sp GS rear derailleur explode from using an 11-34 cassette.
and having seen and set up multiple bikes with 11-36 cassettes, I haven't seen or heard of one exploding due to using that setup either.

its a message board- of course everything here should be taken at the reader's risk.
if they follow you, they risk having a less than ideal gearing setup.
if they follow others, they risk having to buy a $20 wolftooth roadlink if the 11-36 cassette interferes with the derailleur even after adjusting the b screw in order to get the proper gearing.
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Old 11-10-18, 08:50 AM
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FWIW, I have a stock Sora rd on my Fuji Sportif with an swapped 11-34 cassette with no issues. The extra low gear comes in handy for hills. I'm not sure going any bigger would work with the stock rd.
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