Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Are all indo trainers virtual power

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Are all indo trainers virtual power

Old 11-07-18, 03:35 AM
  #1  
Teamprovicycle
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Providence
Posts: 723

Bikes: Specialized tarmac sl2 giant tcx zero

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Are all indo trainers virtual power

I was wondering , if you use the best indo or the most basic , if the power function is not based on the flex-o-meter or similar tradional on bike pro level kit power meters , are you just running virtual power ?

Im kinda frustrated with tacx , there basic trainers seem to be waste of time and money , at this point im seeing the most cost effective option for non tradtion power data , or virtual based data is a speed / cadence sensor and any trainer you want. At least for me i cant seem to get my tacx to give any sort or accurate reading , but i know the wahoo sensors work and can do the exact same thing as my basic smart trainer . right ? Or no ?
Teamprovicycle is offline  
Old 11-07-18, 04:15 AM
  #2  
cb400bill
Administrator
 
cb400bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 16,435

Bikes: Fuji SL 2.1 (carbon fiber), Pinarello Stelvio (steel), Cannondale Synapse (aluminum)

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1246 Post(s)
Liked 38 Times in 27 Posts
indo?
cb400bill is offline  
Old 11-07-18, 08:11 AM
  #3  
livedarklions
Je suis Snap Motomag
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 3,833

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; "Motobecane" Fantom CX

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1909 Post(s)
Liked 432 Times in 256 Posts
Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
indo?
Remember when they used to have do to do salesmen?
livedarklions is online now  
Old 11-07-18, 10:37 AM
  #4  
biketampa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 219

Bikes: 2014 Jamis Ventura Race, 2014 Cervelo P2, 2017 Raleigh Tamland 1, 2015 Jamis Trail X

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Teamprovicycle View Post
I was wondering , if you use the best indo or the most basic , if the power function is not based on the flex-o-meter or similar tradional on bike pro level kit power meters , are you just running virtual power ?

Im kinda frustrated with tacx , there basic trainers seem to be waste of time and money , at this point im seeing the most cost effective option for non tradtion power data , or virtual based data is a speed / cadence sensor and any trainer you want. At least for me i cant seem to get my tacx to give any sort or accurate reading , but i know the wahoo sensors work and can do the exact same thing as my basic smart trainer . right ? Or no ?
what problem are you trying to solve?
biketampa is offline  
Old 11-07-18, 11:02 AM
  #5  
clengman
Senior Member
 
clengman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 461

Bikes: '73 Schwinn World Voyageur, '98 Nishiki BSO

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
I used to train on indo, but the munchies made it counterproductive.
clengman is online now  
Old 11-07-18, 12:49 PM
  #6  
dwing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 230
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Allowing the software/app (Tacx, Kinetic, Zwift, etc..) to calculate a virtual power based on trainer-resist/cadence/wheel-RPM isn't going to be as accurate as using an actual power meter that's known to provide accurate data. How accurate do you want to be? Search YT for shane miller's reviews on power meters and you'll get all the info you'll ever need regarding power meters and accuracy.
dwing is online now  
Old 11-07-18, 12:59 PM
  #7  
autonomy
Senior Member
 
autonomy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Boston Roads
Posts: 709

Bikes: 2012 Canondale Synapse 105, 2017 REI Co-Op ADV 3.1

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Teamprovicycle View Post
I was wondering , if you use the best indo or the most basic , if the power function is not based on the flex-o-meter or similar tradional on bike pro level kit power meters , are you just running virtual power ?

Im kinda frustrated with tacx , there basic trainers seem to be waste of time and money , at this point im seeing the most cost effective option for non tradtion power data , or virtual based data is a speed / cadence sensor and any trainer you want. At least for me i cant seem to get my tacx to give any sort or accurate reading , but i know the wahoo sensors work and can do the exact same thing as my basic smart trainer . right ? Or no ?
Yes, someone out there has built a power curve for 'dumb' trainers - https://zwiftinsider.com/virtual-power/, https://machiine.com/2018/how-accura...ssic-trainers/

On the other hand, one of my friends who rides on TrainerRoad a lot and has a smart wheel-off trainer produces strange graphs. They show that given a constant cadence, he maintains the same speed even during intervals where his power output is halved. Not sure why that is.
autonomy is offline  
Old 11-07-18, 01:57 PM
  #8  
REDMASTA
Senior Member
 
REDMASTA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Traveling through time, will return last week.
Posts: 562

Bikes: Bare Rum Sword Knuckle Runner

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Remember when they used to have do to do salesmen?
har har

you wiped the flo with the op on that one.
REDMASTA is offline  
Old 11-07-18, 02:51 PM
  #9  
Mark VerMurlen
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 32

Bikes: Specialized Diverge

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No, not all indoor trainers use computed virtual power. The Tacx Neo 2 Smart is one such example. You'll see on the Tacx website that it is listed as accurate to less than 1% error. I'm pretty sure that you can only get that level of accuracy with real strain gauges measuring torque.

You don't say what model of Tacx trainer you have. Knowing that would let us help you better. You also don't describe your problem in any detail or why you think your power readings are inaccurate. More info is needed to be able to help you.

Mark
Mark VerMurlen is offline  
Old 11-07-18, 03:28 PM
  #10  
livedarklions
Je suis Snap Motomag
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 3,833

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; "Motobecane" Fantom CX

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1909 Post(s)
Liked 432 Times in 256 Posts
Can OP shop for a stick of gum without starting a thread?
livedarklions is online now  
Old 11-07-18, 07:43 PM
  #11  
Teamprovicycle
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Providence
Posts: 723

Bikes: Specialized tarmac sl2 giant tcx zero

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I have the basic smart trainer , im just wondering of a speed cadence sensor would be better , i was thinking wahoo.

the issues i have are hard to explain. So sometimes all the numbers seems acurate sometimes its up a few mph or off a few rpms , but its far from real time . the tacx apo i use is mo
Teamprovicycle is offline  
Old 11-07-18, 07:54 PM
  #12  
Teamprovicycle
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Providence
Posts: 723

Bikes: Specialized tarmac sl2 giant tcx zero

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
The tacx app i use is more accurate with the trainer i have ( tacx satori ) but the wahoo app saves better and can upload to strava once internet is connected and never looses my activity
.
I only have a mobile hotspot but even when connected the tacx app glitches and doesnt upload or takes a day or two or a phone restart.
Its really messing up my winter training . i dont want to have to spend another 500 to 1000 just for a trainer . so i figure investing in a wahoo sesnor kit at 40 to 100 usd is the best option . im not sure if it does v power or if the app could do v power . maybe there is a" best way" to get the most data saved and exported to strava so i can have a record of my efforts .
right now both apps seem to only export speed and distance .
i tried a virtual live session in the tacx app but i think its more for the neo or very smart trainers with sim modes but it did post to strava with a route and koms which is cool.
Teamprovicycle is offline  
Old 11-07-18, 09:18 PM
  #13  
Brofessor
Senior Member
 
Brofessor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: IL
Posts: 127

Bikes: Schwinn Circuit 89'

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I switched from a Travel Trac Fluid Comp (dumb trainer) to this one: https://www.kurtkinetic.com/products...rt-refurbished
I have no experience with smart trainers that adjust resistance automatically, so my comparison will be limited. There is night and day difference between a cheap fluid trainer and the road feel you get from Kurt Kinetic. Best part is the InRide sensor, which gives you power output rather accurately (see: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/12/...th-review.html) after a spindown calibration. It is hands down the cheapest way you can get power numbers that are consistent between rides and are within +-5% of power meters.
Brofessor is offline  
Old 11-08-18, 09:13 AM
  #14  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 5,227

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Pink Klein MTB, Phil Wood VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame, Proteus frame

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1177 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Can OP shop for a stick of gum without starting a thread?
The real question is should I get the aero gum? It is super aerodynamic smart gum!
veganbikes is offline  
Old 11-08-18, 10:25 AM
  #15  
OBoile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,260
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 726 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by Brofessor View Post
I switched from a Travel Trac Fluid Comp (dumb trainer) to this one: https://www.kurtkinetic.com/products...rt-refurbished
I have no experience with smart trainers that adjust resistance automatically, so my comparison will be limited. There is night and day difference between a cheap fluid trainer and the road feel you get from Kurt Kinetic. Best part is the InRide sensor, which gives you power output rather accurately (see: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/12/...th-review.html) after a spindown calibration. It is hands down the cheapest way you can get power numbers that are consistent between rides and are within +-5% of power meters.
I have this as well. The number quoted is +/- 5%, but I suspect it is better than that overall. There's a new version now that is also ant+ compatible (which I don't have). The previous one was only Bluetooth.
OBoile is online now  
Old 11-08-18, 10:28 AM
  #16  
Brofessor
Senior Member
 
Brofessor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: IL
Posts: 127

Bikes: Schwinn Circuit 89'

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I have this as well. The number quoted is +/- 5%, but I suspect it is better than that overall. There's a new version now that is also ant+ compatible (which I don't have). The previous one was only Bluetooth.
Mine is the black sensor with Bluetooth Smart only and it just works. I use the companion app to connect my sensors anyways, don't really need ANT+.
Brofessor is offline  
Old 11-08-18, 10:48 AM
  #17  
OBoile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,260
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 726 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by Brofessor View Post
Mine is the black sensor with Bluetooth Smart only and it just works. I use the companion app to connect my sensors anyways, don't really need ANT+.
I'm bluetooth only too. That probably is all you really need, but ant+ can be nice in that you could connect directly to a bike computer (or your computer with an ant+ dongle) and not need to use the companion app.
OBoile is online now  
Old 11-08-18, 10:54 AM
  #18  
Brofessor
Senior Member
 
Brofessor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: IL
Posts: 127

Bikes: Schwinn Circuit 89'

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I'm bluetooth only too. That probably is all you really need, but ant+ can be nice in that you could connect directly to a bike computer (or your computer with an ant+ dongle) and not need to use the companion app.
I should have added that I only use it on zwift with the zwift companion app But yeah, if you want to connect the inRide sensor to head units without BLE (Hello Garmin!), then you need that ANT+ compatibility.
Brofessor is offline  
Old 11-08-18, 11:50 AM
  #19  
Mark VerMurlen
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 32

Bikes: Specialized Diverge

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I’ve chosen to use a single sided crack arm based power meter from 4iii for my bike. Its accurate to plus/minus 1%. Prices have come down to the point its worth it to me. I get the same exact power reading now for riding outdoors and well as indoors on a dumb trainer. Its worked well for me with my Garmin head unit which interfaces very well to Strava and other similar sites. Have never lost any data or seen any glitches. This avoids all the inaccuracies that occur with virtual power. You might want to consider a similar setup if you’re seriously into power training.

Mark
Mark VerMurlen is offline  
Old 11-09-18, 01:13 AM
  #20  
Teamprovicycle
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Providence
Posts: 723

Bikes: Specialized tarmac sl2 giant tcx zero

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I guess mine would be considered a " with sensors " built into the unit .

It gives me numbers, im not super onto power training its just nice to know what im doing . i can see my growth and progress and it makes me happy which gives me the mental boost to keep doing good and just snow ball the energy into progress .

The numbers are innaurate mostly due to tire pressure . i definatey need some on bike sensors . there are so many options .

I like the tacx app set up but the uploads are killing me its so glitched for me i cant tell when it will upload .

I was looking at the iq2 power meters but i dunno if they are any good . ?

But i do think it would be more cost effective to train heart rate first from a pure numbers point .?
Teamprovicycle is offline  
Old 11-09-18, 07:44 AM
  #21  
Brofessor
Senior Member
 
Brofessor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: IL
Posts: 127

Bikes: Schwinn Circuit 89'

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
B
Originally Posted by Teamprovicycle View Post
I guess mine would be considered a " with sensors " built into the unit .

It gives me numbers, im not super onto power training its just nice to know what im doing . i can see my growth and progress and it makes me happy which gives me the mental boost to keep doing good and just snow ball the energy into progress .

The numbers are innaurate mostly due to tire pressure . i definatey need some on bike sensors . there are so many options .

I like the tacx app set up but the uploads are killing me its so glitched for me i cant tell when it will upload .

I was looking at the iq2 power meters but i dunno if they are any good . ?

But i do think it would be more cost effective to train heart rate first from a pure numbers point .?
Unless you are going to train outdoors or race, on-the-bike power meters won’t serve you much. You can get pretty consistent power readings from an indoor trainer that’s well calibrated if your only training is indoors. Spending $500+ for a strain gauge power meter just to “see how you are doing” is IMHO a waste of money. I am not here to judge your decisions, but you are saying that you “need” a strain gauge power meter. What you are actually meaning is that you “want” one. Completely different things.

Last edited by Brofessor; 11-09-18 at 12:30 PM.
Brofessor is offline  
Old 11-09-18, 12:50 PM
  #22  
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,055

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 797 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 22 Posts
Back when I cared about power, I bought a cheapo "dumb" trainer ($89~), and a used Powertap wheel & bits for about $150.
Benefit is I could also use the Powertap outside.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: http://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Old 11-17-18, 10:17 PM
  #23  
Teamprovicycle
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Providence
Posts: 723

Bikes: Specialized tarmac sl2 giant tcx zero

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Im cool without power no biggie .
Teamprovicycle is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
non-fixie
Classic & Vintage
16
03-12-19 11:14 AM
illusiumd
Bicycle Mechanics
4
02-13-16 02:02 PM
degnaw
General Cycling Discussion
15
04-06-09 10:31 AM
chuychanga
Touring
4
08-08-03 10:58 AM
billy the goat
BMX
4
12-25-01 06:54 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.