RubeRad

That's cool! Now also if ever somebody's messing with your bike and that conductor sees it, he might be able to do something about it.

kingston 

I don't think there's any risk of somebody in my little north-shore suburb messing with my old crappy beach cruiser. google "Lake Forest, IL" and click on images.

wphamilton

I didn't spend much on that bike until I got tired of dealing with the freewheel and just chunked it, buying a freehub wheel and new cassette. That was only about $50 though. By my standards the bike rode just fine - I actually liked it. But ... I'd give it TLC every Saturday or Sunday, making sure everything was adjusted, tight, lubed and greased. Frequently greasing the bottom bracket until I wised up and replaced it with a Shimano cartridge..

I got a kick out of cigtech's thread, but I'd never seen it until I'd been on mine for quite a bit more than he had. At the time I had a total budget of $250 to set up as car-free, and I researched every aspect of it beforehand. Including the impacts of the weight on my intended use, geometry, aerodynamics, how important various components would be, what was and wasn't standardized. Tires, rolling resistance vs type, cost and durability, the effect on handling at the speeds I'd be making. The whole nine yards. I checked, where I could, where and how the frames were manufactured, compatibility and handling under load. It seems to surprise people but the Denali floated easily to the top of the list as satisfactory and maintainable, the price leaving a like amount for the accessories and possible repairs I would need.

It's not now what it was (cheap transportation), because after 2-3 years I built a better bike for my main use and then I could mess around changing up the Denali to ... something different.

I-Like-To-Bike

But as CigTech's Denali thread demonstrated, some BF posters would never, ever consider a bicycle sold by Walmart or any other big box store outlet as suitable for anything but only as a Bicycle Shaped Object to be scorned, regardless of its merits, intended use, or user satisfaction.

acidfast7

CigTech was my inspiration for my BSO thread!

I've done more miles, but ran a faster 100m dash than me

Petros98223

interesting comments. several thoughts: you could buy cheap used bikes, ride until they are not usable, junk it and than buy another. not usually a pleasant ride, but cheap per mile. If I search I can often find bikes for free, or slightly more costly than free (like $5), and than just swap parts around to get a decent riding bike. cost per mile would be very low. however, that means you are taking advantage of someone else spending a lot more per mile before they unloaded it for you to find. So this may account for your cost, but I do not think it would be indicative of total operating coast. I have bought running cars for $100, maintained it with cheap used parts I picked up from self service wrecking yard for very little, drove it many miles and than when the engine finally failed, I junked it and got $150 in scrape metal value for it. But that is not your typical automobile owner's experience, and it sometimes took a lot of effort on my part (not sure it was worth it frankly, I could have either earned income with that time, or spend it doing activities I like). Also, if you tinker a lot with old bikes, you could spend hours (with little out of pocket costs) to build up something decent, shopping local used bikes (I have picked up some nice used bikes for very little at garage sales, estate sales, etc). There is a cost to your time, even if you sometimes enjoy the activity, there are many riders who allow their LBS to do all the tuning, repairs and parts replacements for them. If you pay a shop to do maintenance and repairs, it would change cost per miles considerably. And your time does have value, even if you do it as a hobby. That is time you would not spend if you never ride your bike at all (no maintenance and repair time). So it seems the value of your labor should be considered in the operating costs.


I think to make it realistic you have to include the new, unused cost, and than subtract the "salvage value" of what it is worth when you are done with it. If you occasionally wreck a bike, it would not have much salvage value, and must be included in the overall typical costs to ride a bike..


Also, we are talking total operating cost PER MILE. Cost of owning it per year, or per commute, is misleading since the title for this thread is cost per mile. And given a healthy "start" body weight, it means if you increase your daily output by riding instead of driving, you must include the extra food (or "fuel") cost, since it is an expense you would not otherwise have. Otherwise you would be wasting away a little at a time each day until you developed serious health problems. Losing weight and keeping fit are really separate issues, there are other ways to accomplish that, and over many miles it would not be a steady state situation to make a valid cost comparison. It would like starting a drive in your car at the top of a long hill, and your test run is all down hill. Not a valid cost comparison.


Another thought that occurred to me about operating costs, examine tires (or tyers?) by themselves: I can have installed four tires for my honda civic for about $400, and with normal care last about 50,000 to 60,000 miles (flat fix, rotation and occasional replacement is covered under a tire warranty and included in the cost, not true with bike tires). Cost is about 0.7 cents mile (USD 0.007/mile). Quality bicycle tires are about $120 per pair installed (or even more!), and they would last about 5,000 miles? (not sure on this, could be 1,200 miles, could be 10,000 miles but I doubt it). if so, that would be 2.4 cents a mile, over three times more cost per mile (and that is for two tires vs. four!). Consider that I can take up to four adults, and a fair amount of cargo in the civic (in any weather without special clothing), than the cost is even lower per seat-mile (though I rarely have three or four people in my car, but I could, but never on a bicycle). My bicycle chain and rear free wheel wear out at about 5000 miles, perhaps more miles if I clean and lube it a lot more, but the replacement cost is about $100 (at the LBS), that is 2 cents a mile by itself. Seats, brakes, cables, handle bar tape or grips all also wear out and need to be replaced regularly if you ride a lot, as well as BB, wheel hub bearings need to be replaced regularly, not to mention pedals, chain rings and so fourth. None of these are inexpensive parts taken together, and though it occurs infrequently over time, the cost per mile is not insignificant.


Average overall operating costs for the automobile is about 61 cent per miles in the USA (about $9000 per years) according to AAA. my auto costs are much lower with a reliable and economical civic, almost half of that cost. This includes registration, insurance, and depreciation. And cars can also carry groceries, luggage, skis, etc, as well as passengers.


I think the best one could say is that their costs per miles can be similar, but you spend it in different ways, for different things. It is just not as inexpensive as most people assume.


I should think that owning a bicycles is far less costly per year, than owning a car, (and why they are popular in 3rd world countries as the primary means of transpiration) but most in the USA I suspect drive their car many more miles than they ride their bike. There are exceptions of course, but for most people you need to own both anyway.

acidfast7

I think that you guys state-side get screwed with tyres.

A set of Schwalbe Marathons runs £40 for a set of originals and £50 for a set of the new ones.

Wiggle | Schwalbe Marathon Plus Smartguard Rigid Road Tyre | Tyres

I seem to be getting crap mileage out of them ... maybe I'll get 2-3000 miles max of the originals.

RubeRad

Yes, I have learned that, even with international shipping, it is cheaper to buy Schwalbes straight from DE

noglider 

I'm not enamored of Schwalbes, so it's OK with me. I did buy a pair of Schwalbe studded tires two or three years ago. I ended up not needing them and haven't ridden them more than twice. I bought them at a great price from a UK company. I added $7 to get tracking. They shipped it DHL, and they came NEXT DAY! I didn't even ask for that. Not only that, they went from Southampton, through Leipzig, and then to NYC. What a world.

Spoonrobot 

It cost me $3.03 an hour to ride given a "normal" ~550 hour year. This includes the bike, all physical goods, wear items, maintenance items, food/drink, and clothing. Does not include a cost estimate for "time" or opportunity cost. $0.22 a mile assuming my historical average of 14 mph for combined road and dirt rides.

The high level breakdown is:

34% cost of the bike (variable, will decrease with more riding)
29% cost of food (fixed ~$0.90/hr)
37% cost of everything else

I kept detailed expenses in 2016 and 2017 so those are my only current years. I knew exactly how many clif bars I purchased, for example.

Bulette

The food should not be ignored if the goal is to demonstrate the true cost of cycling. Some settings may easily marginalize the costs of extra consumption (anyone work a back-of-house kitchens...?), but for many other cyclists, miles equate to purchasing food.

$0.90/hr sounds like a reasonable estimate. Moderate cycling should burn at least 300-400 calories per hour, and especially true on longer rides, you have to eat something extra. Even the cheapest calories cost something, and healthy calories cost something extra (unless you want to mash black beans for breakfast, lunch, and dinner).

Adding tires to this itemization is straightforward too. I ride Continental Ride Tour; currently 22.95 for 700x32, and 24.95 for 700x37 (my preference...). With mostly road, but some mixed surface, I expect about 5,000 miles per tire (rotated through a few sets the last ~15,000 miles. About $0.005/mile/tire, or $0.01/mile alone for tires the bike, with cheaper sets built for some durability.

Beyond that, in chains, bar-tape, a cable now and again, a bit of clothing, and the toolkit I've justified by avoiding paid-service, I doubt to be less than $0.20/mile; I would hope to be under $0.30/mile though. I've never been relaxed enough to enjoy riding a cruiser or a 3-speed; I don't doubt their reliability or low cost per mile, but I have also never passed one on the country roads I ride. I replace parts regularly, and so my cost is unlikely to decrease to mere cents on the mile. Maintaining my bicycle gives me good peace of mind 30 miles and more from home.

I enjoy the objective view of costs and itemizations being provided here, though I think the "race to the bottom" is somewhat misleading from the goals.

ps: my pressfit bottom bracket is creaking again , and the only part in my fleet I can't tinker myself (not bad after ~4,000 miles according to this discussion). Maybe $50 bearing pull and replace? That's gonna add a few cents per hour the next few rides (and add a few more granola bars, too).

OldTryGuy

I found a dime on the way to Walmart today!!! cha-ching

I-Like-To-Bike

Should read: for a handful of OCD types, cycling miles equate to purchasing food. Another tiny group of OCD types obsess over the costs of cycling per mile as if they can't afford what they spend per mile.

For everyone else cycling miles equals cycling miles - for pleasure, exercise and/or transportation or a combination of all three.

There is probably next to nobody in the U.S. who can't afford the cost of riding a bicycle, except perhaps for destitute paupers, no matter how the BF accountants choose to fine tune the nitpicking calculations.

wphamilton

I had thought so, but I don't think it's that simple. Your 90 cents per hour sounds about right for prepared high calorie snack foods. But, for example, for a long time I was boringly consistent with having a cheeseburger and salad bar every day, or a cheeseburger and fries when I wanted more calories. The fries with more calories were cheaper that the salad bar.


Secondly, if I do increase portions at home for more calories, I am also getting more of the other nutrients, which aren't wasted and therefore the entire additional cost cannot be just on the cycling ledger. So I have no confidence that I spend any particular amount more - or any more at all - for my daily bicycling.

Bulette

Or there's another OCD type, one who obsesses over the costs of cycling because they can only barely afford it. Unfortunately, in the US we have a sizeable population of destitute paupers, some of whom even hold jobs! Besides, politics are a secondary to establishing the economic model here.. Pleasure, exercise, and transportation, all three, are benefits, the miles are costs. Some cycle for transport, some cycle for recreation, and a reasonable venn diagram shows the two overlap, but most probably invest some in their ride and equipment, and don't seek to minimize all costs --- the balance of each individuals investment, will, necessarily vary.

As for food, Spoonrobot's empirical breakdown suggesting food nearing 30% of a high-mileage cyclists expenses (someone who has likely reasonably reduced the cost/mile of their equipment). Some simple calculations: Dozen eggs are averaging $1.97, a three egg omelette with a sprinkle of cheese and tablespoon of olive oil rounds about $0.60 for ~300 calories, or one hour of cycling. Nature Valley protein bars are ~$3/box of 6? Or roughly $0.50 per 200 calories, and as a prepared snack, not much worse penny-per-calorie than home-cooking. Calories are expensive --- if you don't think about your grocery bill now, you might not think so. This would, however, be quite insensitive considering the many families that are underfed.

If the goal is to cycle 1 hour, 3 times a week, then the entire thought experiment is mostly pointless (running the same, would not require significant investments in shoes or insoles, etc at that level). If the goal is to encourage recreational cyclists to move towards 8-10 hours per week, or more, I believe the costs per hour become relevant, as does an honest acknowledgement of how much any rolling vehicle can cost to keep rollin.

Spoonrobot 

Oh look it's I-Like-To-Bike with belittling and derogatory comments because people are experiencing the world in a different way than he prefers, AGAIN

I think it's extremely rude to equate a mental illness with polite discussion about the costs of cycling. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be a life-altering issue for the people who suffer from it and using it to glibly insult people on this forum is unacceptable.

My food estimate only includes calories consumed during a ride. Generally 1 sports candybar an hour, clif bar/shotblok/powerbar/etc. Anything else is a separate spreadsheet, I did not perform a detailed breakdown and my eating habits and associated costs vary by season. I eat a ton of eggs, fruit, and fresh vegetables with minimal boxed or processed items. Generally I have assumed the extra food I eat at home, in order to recover from riding, adds ~20% to my grocery bill. But in reality this is most likely overstated as if I was not cycling I would have to find another physical activity to partake in. I am unable to live my life in a healthy manner without several hours of intensive exercise a week. So if it was not +20% from cycling it would be +20% from weightlifting or BJJ or something else.

When I first started riding as an adult it was at the tail end of the recession, I had been underemployed for several months, recently lost my car and was in arrears of my student loans. I was able to scrounge a used bike to get to work and slowly chipped away at the high-interest debt looming over me. The only bike-specific nutrition I consumed was gatorade - in the form of bulk powder mixed myself - as it was and is the cheapest nutritional item that is easy to consume on a bike. $1.00 will give you around 500 calories. I rode used tires people threw away, my tubes had several patches each and I deferred every maintenance issue possible. Riding was both a form of transportation as well as an escape from the drudgery of multiple jobs and terrible public transit options. Now that I have the luxury of a good job and discretionary income I am able to both pay for more palatable nutrition as well as regular maintenance and preventative maintenance.

Anyway, the whole point for me is that I work with numbers all day in a financial setting so tracking my personal costs is just another spreadsheet. I find it interesting and it makes for funny conversations in real life from time to time. It also helps me keep track of the total expenditure. I ride with several people who think nothing of spending $10-$15 on their ride in the form of convenience store marked up water, chip, candybars, gatorade, etc. If I spent like they did I would need to add ~$300 a year to my budget, at least. That's almost 20% increase! Serious money when taking the long view, especially if it's considered lost investment income with realization in a few decades.

I-Like-To-Bike

It is highly unlikely that any destitute paupers are posting or reading anything on this subject (or any other subject) on BF. The discussion here is among various bicycling enthusiasts about costs that are more than likely immaterial to their decisions about whether or not to ride extra miles.

If destitute paupers can barely afford to ride an inexpensive bicycle for essential transportation, they probably can't afford any alternative other than walking.

Bulette

The destitute paupers I saw just yesterday had working cell-phones, wall-chargers, and yet were carrying everything they own sitting outside the gas station near the Interstate. I lived for a time along the Mississippi River, as you do; the vagabonds were unmistakable, traveling the river with the seasons. Many had bikes, many loaded double or triple what a bike-forum cycle-tourist would dare. Many had cell-phones, and presumably some pocket change too; even if they don't, many might find internet access through libraries, hotel lobbies, and more (if you've never been homeless, or never come close, again, it is a matter of radical world view).

Paupers, working poor, the homeless, and more might all be sensitive to the cost of food (and the extra consumption brought about by hours of riding in loops). As Spoonrobot shared, and that which reflects closer to my experiences, students/recent graduates may join in the 'paupers' concerns.

I would not eliminate the experience either --- but I am very aware, that either through home-cooking or from road-food, that cycling a metric century is going to cost me an extra lunch.


Back to the topic!

If tires are at least $0.01/mile, then its useful to look at brake-pads, too. BB7 disk brake pads have not given me great service life; of course it is dependent on conditions and use, most of my riding has been in the midwest, reasonable hills but no mountain descents to really grind on them. The pads tend to run about as long as my touring tires, another nice round 5,000 miles for estimates sake. The Amazon chinese knockoffs are $8.50 at the moment, while the real-deal Avid pads are $20.00.

On the higher end and reputable products, the brake pads, I estimate are $0.004/mile/pad, or about $0.008/mile for brake pad set. Less than tires, but not necessarily negligible. You can go china-direct, however, and reduce cost by over half. That would leave us with $0.0017/mile/pad, $0.0034/mile for the set. Fractions of a cent here, but small pieces of the whole, nonetheless.

noglider 

This topic is interesting to some people. I invite those who think it's stupid or OCD not to discuss it here. It makes no sense to imply that it is uninteresting.

RubeRad

Tom as always with the voice of reason. I agree, if you can't say something nice [or at least productive], don't say anything at all. No need to come into this thread if you just want to crap on it.

Also, as I've said before, athletic cyclists may well see fit to include marginal food costs in their overall cost of cycling, but as a fattie myself, I am doing what I can to eat less AND cycle. I bike commuted for 5 years and didn't lose any weight because I kept stuffing my fat face. This year started eating less and lost 20lb. So for me, it doesn't make sense to include any food costs in my cycle-accounting.

kingston 

In an earlier post I mentioned that randonneuring can be quite expensive per mile. While you rack up a lot of miles to amortize the cost of the equipment, the equipment tends to be expensive, and the variable costs can be quite high. When I first started riding brevets, I spent around $10 per control on food and drinks, and the controls are every 30 miles or so. That’s around 35¢/mile on food, which I would definitely count as an incremental cost since in normal life I don’t buy fruit pies, doughnuts and energy drinks at convenience stores. A few seasons ago I started bringing along gatorade powder and a mix of maltodextrin and protein powder to meet most of my nutritional needs. I buy the ingredients in bulk and mix up bags that provide approximately 30 miles of nutrition for under a dollar bringing my nutrition cost down to around 3¢/mile.

pdlamb

Checking in to see if anything new has come up in the last week or so -- what an interesting thread! From destitute paupers who have the time (and presumably spreadsheets and computers) to calculate their cycling costs down to a penny per mile for tires, to the other extreme of randonneurs.

I identify more with the randonneurs, although having looked at a few brevet weekends, I carefully avoid cost per mile for those events. By the time I throw in car mileage to get there and back, add in food and drink and the biggy for me, motels -- no, that's a cost for fun, not a cost for transportation.

Spoonrobot 

Free to use computers at one's local library allow for setting up a Gmail account which allows access to Google Sheets/Google Drive. As anyone who has been unemployed while searching for a job, often the only resource you have is time.

One of the most expensive items for cycling other than the bike has been the kit. The last set of bib shorts and jersey I purchased lasted 75 wearings, about 150 hours of riding at a cost of $120. Extremely expensive per mile cost when compared to just wearing regular clothes. I split the difference and buy cheaper bib shorts that I wear with otherwise regular clothes. Conversely cycling shoes are extremely cheap per mile, I have a pair of shoes that have been going strong for near 20,000 miles at a cost of $80.

Sometimes the ability to outsource food on a brevet is worth it for the ability to carry less food/water weight as well as less luggage weight. I've found I much prefer going with a bare bike and an extra $30 than having rack/bag/bottles. Since I only do a few of those rides a year it's not "too expensive" for me.

acidfast7

I hope that's not referring to me!

acidfast7

That sounds like a lack of proper taxation/welfare system stateside, which is another topic entirely.

Unless, you're living in a John Kerouac novel, which, in that case, I would like to join.