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Who regularly upgrades forks ...

Old 12-17-18, 05:46 PM
  #1  
BrocLuno
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Who regularly upgrades forks ...

I have four general purpose bikes that see street and trail duty. They are all based on older MTB's. Most older MTB's have pretty bad suspension forks from what I have seen, so these either have replacement forks (Marzocchi or Manitou air forks) or are getting new ones coming when they pop up on eBay in nice condition

Who else does this to improve the ride
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Old 12-17-18, 06:03 PM
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I did. My old but still-loved Giant Rainier ('05) came with an ok, but heavy, Marzocchi (coil). A few years later I managed to snag a nos Marzocchi MX Comp that my lbs had sitting around. Brilliant; one of the last 'old' MXs made before Marzocchi went bust.

Air spring; oil-damped with internally adjustable rebound; alloy steerer; and alloy (not plastic) top caps. Got the thing for a song, and it's still going strong on the same bike. No lockout, but I didn't and don't care. It's been a great, and completely reliable, fork.
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Old 12-17-18, 07:42 PM
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I use rigid steel forks. They never need any maintenance, never wear out and never need upgrading or replacing.
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Old 12-17-18, 07:50 PM
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I upgraded the fork on my BD mtn bike from an SR Suntour to a Rokshox recon air silver.

Much better fork than stock.
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Old 12-18-18, 08:40 PM
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I may upgrade the fork on my Langster to a ENVE fork only to go full carbon and cut a bit of weight but I don't need too. I sort of upgraded the fork on my Klein but only because the old one was completely worn out and non-functional but I sadly didn't want to spend a ton of money on an older Manitou or RS Judy because they are hard to find in 1" threaded in long enough length for the Klein.

Certainly upgrades are never a bad thing and I encourage them but if you are building a bike for commuting I would generally avoid suspension for road riding, extra weight and a cut down in efficiency. If you can find a good carbon fork you will add some comfort but also cut significant weight and that is what I would do.
@mtb_addict: Seriously you are the mountain bike addict...you don't know what a fork might do to a mountain bike? If you get something of the same travel for a suspension fork it won't change anything. If you get something different travel wise it can have some effect but some mountain bikes are designed for say 100-120mm of travel so yeah you will be fine.
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Old 12-18-18, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
@mtb_addict: Seriously you are the mountain bike addict...you don't know what a fork might do to a mountain bike? If you get something of the same travel for a suspension fork it won't change anything. If you get something different travel wise it can have some effect but some mountain bikes are designed for say 100-120mm of travel so yeah you will be fine.
While I agree that "mtb_addict" is false advertising, a misnomer, or both, the A-to-C measurement for a given amount of fork travel can vary by manufacturer, and that will affect handling.

See many examples here:

https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspe...ry-470024.html
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Old 12-18-18, 09:43 PM
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I have changed my forks on almost every bike I have owned
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Old 12-19-18, 06:53 AM
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I do sometimes change and upgrade forks on my bikes.
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Old 12-19-18, 08:44 AM
  #9  
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Usually longer travel will just slack the head angle so it'll be lazier, but more stable. If air fork, you can adjust with sag.

What I can't believe is the weight of most of the lower end forks ... Some are almost 6 lbs for not much use.

Ran into a Manitou carbon air fork at 1300 grams in excellent shape. Too pricey for my old chassis, but I'd do that for a more modern bike that I was blinging out

Every-time I do this to an older bike, I can't believe how the whole bike responds. Much livelier and more responsive. Transitions are a snap and it's almost fun to hit bumps and roots, etc.

Last edited by BrocLuno; 12-19-18 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 12-19-18, 09:28 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by BrocLuno View Post
Usually longer travel will just slack the head angle so it'll be lazier, but more stable. If air fork, you can adjust with sag.

Totally depends on the riding. Slacker HA allows you to sit more aggressively over the front end (think MX) and rail through corners and rough steep sections. Longer length bikes add to this by increasing the stability of the bike at speeds. The lower the bike the more stable. Add a steeper STA and you have a bike that can be seated pedalable and very aggressive and agile (depending on your strength).


Playing my own devils advocate, is that some people would find a slacker HA less stable (by large margins), if they are climbers. Someone who spends more time going up then down would despise a slack HA without an appropriate STA and chainstay length to compensate. Heck, the slack HA is less stable in very technical north shore type trails. Its compensated by body position and bike mechanics, but it is still less stable.


Basically I am saying, I am not sure lazier is an accurate term when it comes to HA. And your sweeping statement around HA being more stable ignores how and where different people ride. There is a lot more to a bike then HA


You may be, if you tend to ride the new flowier style trails, be referring to pop or playfulness (vague and very subjective term), which may be reasonably accurate since you have more travel to soak up the jumps. Don't confuse playfulness with laziness in a bike. Both are extremely aggressive (not lazy) just for different styles of riders.


If air fork, you can adjust with sag.



Any fork with compression settings can adjust sag. Not just air forks. They may use an air compression chamber, but still be an oil bath coil fork.



What I can't believe is the weight of most of the lower end forks ... Some are almost 6 lbs for not much use.



I have an old Z150, oil bath coil fork, as high end as you could get at the time, same with my old 66rt with 7 inch of travel. Both weighed a tonne. Lower end forks tend to be todays representation of older tech, so ya, definitely heavy. Hard to make a magnesium air fork, with low speed, high speed compression and rebound damping fit into a 100$ fork
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Old 12-19-18, 10:56 AM
  #11  
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I buy my mt bikes new, they come with good forks.
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Old 12-19-18, 01:44 PM
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Lots of suspension forks , after a few years , no longer have support for rebuild parts, so when you really need them, there are none available, any more

so then you have to buy a new fork..
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Old 12-19-18, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Lots of suspension forks , after a few years , no longer have support for rebuild parts, so when you really need them, there are none available, any more

so then you have to buy a new fork..
I would also say, in response to why to the guy two messages abo, I bought a Trek Fuel for example, I loved the bike but hated the Rockshox fork, so I bought the bike sold the fork and bought a fox performance fork. Quite often stock, mid range to even high end bikes, still have low end dampered forks (in the performance category) so upgrading makes some sense.
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Old 12-19-18, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Lots of suspension forks , after a few years , no longer have support for rebuild parts, so when you really need them, there are none available, any more

so then you have to buy a new fork..
I sort of agree... But I have found plenty of excellent used higher end forks from maybe 4~5 years ago have good support.

Marzocchi is weird because the company has suffered under ownership changes and management changes, so they are a poor source ... But a fellow in Germany has become Dr Marzzochi and has been buying up NOS Marzzochi parts for a long time now. He is also having older style parts fab'd at local machine shops. So Marzzochi higher end forks are well supported back to the mid-1990's

Same holds for Manitou and Fox. There are even rebuild kits for Answer/Manitou/Easton elastomer forks that go back to the 1980's. Fox will rebuild almost any of their units if you send them in (call first to check).

Rock Shox, Suntour and RST are maybe not as well supported ... I can't find parts for many of their forks, but don't much care for the ones I have used so far, so I just sell them off as " fixer's " to folks that prolly just need to get something hung on their chassis so they call sell it ...

My comment about HA and slack is taken from years (decades) of riding off-road on motorcycles. If you had a lazy steering bike (some Suzuki's come to mind), just raise the fork tubes and inch or two and it'd quicken up real fast. Going the other way required longer fork tubes, and most dirt bikes don't need slower steering. We played HA games and rear suspension travel games on almost every bike we'd build for the desert. But I will admit that things feel a lot different at 75 MPH on a 280# bike with the motor floating the front end over sandy soils than what a MTB feels like in the rocks at 20 MPH. The MTB wheel speed is not high enough to really gyro dampen the steering feel as much, and the whole machine is not as robust.

And it's that motorcycle background that got me swapping forks on older bicycles. The results are much more dramatic. Bicycles are so much lighter and more connected to the rider in some ways. They are also much easier to bend in a crash - almost delicate by comparison. But so much more responsive to smaller changes like adding 20mm of travel. Not enough to make things dangerous, but enough to feel

20mm on most dirt motorcycles is less telling than a tire change ...

Last edited by BrocLuno; 12-19-18 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 12-19-18, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BrocLuno View Post
Rock Shox, Suntour and RST are maybe not as well supported ... I can't find parts for many of their forks, but don't much care for the ones I have used so far, so I just sell them off as " fixer's " to folks that prolly just need to get something hung on their chassis so they call sell it
Just curious, do you live in Europe? I only ask because SR Suntour and Rockshox have great support in US and Canada. I only speak to the higher end ones. SR Suntour I was close to buying since you can actually order demo models and play on those. Very cool company at the aftermarket side. If you like to play with forks they may be a fun option. I was close until I got my fox performance.

SR Suntour you can get from the factory and all things said its like the old Marzocchis, super easy to modify on your own. Less need for aftermarket parts when you can drill out dampening on your own haha...

My comment about HA and slack is taken from years (decades) of riding off-road on motorcycles. If you had a lazy steering bike (some Suzuki's come to mind), just raise the fork tubes and inch or two and it'd quicken up real fast. Going the other way required longer fork tubes, and most dirt bikes don't need slower steering. We played HA games and rear suspension travel games on almost every bike we'd build for the desert. But I will admit that things feel a lot different at 75 MPH on a 280# bike with the motor floating the front end over sandy soils than what a MTB feels like in the rocks at 20 MPH. The MTB wheel speed is not high enough to really gyro dampen the steering feel as much, and the whole machine is not as robust.
Makes sense.

And it's that motorcycle background that got me swapping forks on older bicycles. The results are much more dramatic. Bicycles are so much lighter and more connected to the rider in some ways. They are also much easier to bend in a crash - almost delicate by comparison. But so much more responsive to smaller changes like adding 20mm of travel. Not enough to make things dangerous, but enough to feel

20mm on most dirt motorcycles is less telling than a tire change ...
Adjusting the forks, which is why I like fox, and changing the travel with relative ease is fun. I got locked into travel max on my Trek, I am back on a bike now that lets me modify as I see fit
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Old 12-20-18, 08:03 AM
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No, I have not tried Suntour's high end stuff. Their lower range stuff is iffy for parts. Ditto Rock Shox. I don't go looking for their higher end stuff because most of it (not all) is heavier than Manitou and Marzocchi. I am not a weight weenie, but why pack on the lbs when you don't have to...

But, because of your comments, I will be on the look-out for high quality Suntour stuff
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Old 12-20-18, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BrocLuno View Post
No, I have not tried Suntour's high end stuff. Their lower range stuff is iffy for parts. Ditto Rock Shox. I don't go looking for their higher end stuff because most of it (not all) is heavier than Manitou and Marzocchi. I am not a weight weenie, but why pack on the lbs when you don't have to...

But, because of your comments, I will be on the look-out for high quality Suntour stuff
SR Suntour has a great loaner program you could try some of their higher end stuff out. Not sure about modern marz but their high end endure single crown was a pound lighter than my old z150. Doesn't mean much since that is still heavy but its solid. Great feeling fork (albeit a little heavier)

https://www.srsuntour.us/pages/dtyd
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Old 12-20-18, 08:29 AM
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PS I am not personally invested in any brand. I used to think the same thing of SR Suntour (eg. Garbage)… but their high end stuff is quite good for sprung forks

As for rockshox, I don't love the damping. I have tried so many models, including their high end enduro forks. They never feel quite as good as I want them to on small bumps or in rough stuff. I am kind of a fox fan
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Old 12-20-18, 01:34 PM
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I've thought about a Bluto for the fatty, but beyond damaging a dropout when a wheel that was off (which was easily repaired), that is the only thought I've given to upgrading a fork.
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Old 12-20-18, 02:32 PM
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I have several vintage MTBs. The (then) new builds have nice rigid forks. Newer purchases have nice functioning forks or I pass. My newest MTB build is an 06 and it has a SID XX. I do pay attention to forks, but I try not to swap them out. I am thinking of swapping out a Tange Big Fork for a Crabon ahead one to drop some weight on my future Haro Extreme build (not decided yet). Generally I avoid heavy suspension with no adjustments. I have swapped out many springy seatposts and stems also for rigid ones.
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Old 12-20-18, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BrocLuno View Post
Marzocchi is weird because the company has suffered under ownership changes and management changes, so they are a poor source ... But a fellow in Germany has become Dr Marzzochi and has been buying up NOS Marzzochi parts for a long time now. He is also having older style parts fab'd at local machine shops. So Marzzochi higher end forks are well supported back to the mid-1990's

..
Would you have the contact info for this guy? I have an '01 Marz Atom Sport z2..running fine so far.
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Old 12-20-18, 04:29 PM
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Here you go: Dr Marzocchi
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Old 12-30-18, 01:55 PM
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I just figured out that by this summer there will not be one bike on the property that has the original fork ... Tinkerers have to tinker
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