Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Chain Reaction Cycles and Shimano

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Chain Reaction Cycles and Shimano

Old 12-20-18, 08:30 AM
  #1  
JonathanGennick 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
JonathanGennick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Munising, Michigan, USA
Posts: 4,131

Bikes: Priority 600, Priority Continuum, Devinci Dexter

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 685 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 37 Posts
Chain Reaction Cycles and Shimano

Here is some news worthy of note:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...a#.XBul4Vw3lhE

Shops of course are rejoicing, but I am sitting here and dying a little bit on the inside. Because Chain Reaction has provided a glimpse of what's possible when the supply-chain is made shorter and more efficient. Few things have contributed to my enjoyment of cycling as much as the ready availability of modestly-priced parts and the wide selection that's been available on the Internet.
JonathanGennick is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 08:55 AM
  #2  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8183 Post(s)
Liked 9,077 Times in 5,047 Posts
Originally Posted by JonathanGennick
Here is some news worthy of note:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...a#.XBul4Vw3lhE

Shops of course are rejoicing, but I am sitting here and dying a little bit on the inside. Because Chain Reaction has provided a glimpse of what's possible when the supply-chain is made shorter and more efficient. Few things have contributed to my enjoyment of cycling as much as the ready availability of modestly-priced parts and the wide selection that's been available on the Internet.

Shimano had better watch it--that's classic price fixing, and I'm pretty sure that they have a big enough share of the market that they could have antitrust concerns.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 09:23 AM
  #3  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 3,721

Bikes: https://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1758 Post(s)
Liked 484 Times in 311 Posts
I just won't buy any more shimano parts as long as they charge Americans higher prices for the same thing. #problemsolved
kingston is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 09:54 AM
  #4  
Maelstrom 
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Posts: 16,966

Bikes: Trek Fuel EX 8 27.5 +, 2002 Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Has Shimano pulled out from all of the online retailers? Or just the ones who undercut MSRP? While I love cheap parts, Apple, for example, does this all the time. They will only sell if you don't undercut the defined price they allow. It is not uncommon for manufacturers to demand a level playing field for all of their retailers.

Price fixing, yes, but extremely common.
Maelstrom is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 10:02 AM
  #5  
JonathanGennick 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
JonathanGennick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Munising, Michigan, USA
Posts: 4,131

Bikes: Priority 600, Priority Continuum, Devinci Dexter

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 685 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelstrom
Has Shimano pulled out from all of the online retailers? Or just the ones who undercut MSRP? While I love cheap parts, Apple, for example, does this all the time. They will only sell if you don't undercut the defined price they allow. It is not uncommon for manufacturers to demand a level playing field for all of their retailers.

Price fixing, yes, but extremely common.
I don't think in this case it counts as price fixing per se, because the limitation is on territory not on price. Chain Reaction probably can sell at whatever price, just not to the States.

And yes, Apple is very good at maintaining a stable price across all purchasing venues.
JonathanGennick is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 10:04 AM
  #6  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8183 Post(s)
Liked 9,077 Times in 5,047 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelstrom
Has Shimano pulled out from all of the online retailers? Or just the ones who undercut MSRP? While I love cheap parts, Apple, for example, does this all the time. They will only sell if you don't undercut the defined price they allow. It is not uncommon for manufacturers to demand a level playing field for all of their retailers.

Price fixing, yes, but extremely common.

The difference is that Apple doesn't have anything approaching a 70% market share, and for some components, Shimano may have even higher.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 10:13 AM
  #7  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,068

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2544 Post(s)
Liked 3,024 Times in 1,836 Posts
Time for someone to become a UK middleman
dedhed is online now  
Old 12-20-18, 11:22 AM
  #8  
TimothyH
- Soli Deo Gloria -
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,782

Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix

Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6841 Post(s)
Liked 731 Times in 465 Posts
I don't understand why prices are higher in the US to begin with.

Not "because Shimano sucks" or "greedy bastards" reasons but the actual financial reasons.

A Thomson seatpost is manufactured 4 hours from my house. It is $99 everywhere in the US but I can get it flown on a cargo jet from England for $79. How is this even possible? What makes it more expensive here or less expensive elsewhere?


-Tim-
TimothyH is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 11:22 AM
  #9  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 15,889

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 121 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10293 Post(s)
Liked 6,732 Times in 3,811 Posts
Originally Posted by kingston
I just won't buy any more shimano parts as long as they charge Americans higher prices for the same thing. #problemsolved
Didnt SRAM do this a couple years ago?

So do you just ride Campy and Microshift at this point?
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 11:27 AM
  #10  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 15,889

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 121 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10293 Post(s)
Liked 6,732 Times in 3,811 Posts
Gray market Shimano components will absolutely still be available.
Euro online retailer that is also a 'bike manufacturer' gets a massive discount for OEM components and ends up selling a bunch of them as new on their site but not in the retail box for less than retail here. This announcement wont stop that practice.


I say they are addressing the wrong side of the issue. US dealer's wholesale costs needed to drop instead of closing the door to US consumers buying for cheaper overseas.

Its tough to convince people a product is worth $100usd when consumers can go online and see that its selling for only $70usd in Europe. <---hypothetical numbers
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 11:30 AM
  #11  
Padj
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shimano have turned to junk recently
Padj is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 11:32 AM
  #12  
jefnvk
Senior Member
 
jefnvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,215

Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3640 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 51 Posts
I've never understood why businesses don't get it. That isn't going to push people who were buying from CRC to buy from the LBS at higher prices, if anything it may make them even more spiteful towards them. It is simply going to push them to other online retailers who still undercut the LBS, whether they be another of the UK Big 4, grey market imports, or simply ordering from Hong Kong eBay accounts and hoping for the best.
jefnvk is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 11:47 AM
  #13  
TrojanHorse
SuperGimp
 
TrojanHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 13,346

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 147 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH
I don't understand why prices are higher in the US to begin with.

Not "because Shimano sucks" or "greedy bastards" reasons but the actual financial reasons.

A Thomson seatpost is manufactured 4 hours from my house. It is $99 everywhere in the US but I can get it flown on a cargo jet from England for $79. How is this even possible? What makes it more expensive here or less expensive elsewhere?
Let me introduce you to the drug industry.

Actually, currency fluctuations might account for some of it too but your general question is a good question as far as I'm concerned.
TrojanHorse is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 11:49 AM
  #14  
Ogsarg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Hollister, CA (not the surf town)
Posts: 1,669

Bikes: 2019 Specialized Roubaix Comp Di2, 2009 Roubaix, early 90's Giant Iguana

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 617 Post(s)
Liked 1,342 Times in 505 Posts
Companies setting different prices for their products in different regions is not uncommon at all. You see the same thing with Nikon, Canon, for cameras. Different pricing for USA, EU, Japan, etc. Not sure I see the logic in it, but they aren't breaking any laws.

Determined people will find another way to get the cheaper product if it's out there.
Ogsarg is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 11:54 AM
  #15  
MoAlpha
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 11,567

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9591 Post(s)
Liked 5,370 Times in 2,885 Posts
Could it have something to do with the effect of a very high VAT on what the UK retailers can negotiate from Shimano for the products? The VAT probably boosts the cost of Shimano parts to US levels for UK buyers. Foreign buyers don't pay the tax, of course.
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 11:58 AM
  #16  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 3,721

Bikes: https://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1758 Post(s)
Liked 484 Times in 311 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
So do you just ride Campy and Microshift at this point?
My statement was forward looking, but yes campy, microshift and others will be perfectly fine with me if Shimano continues with their current US vs. Europe price disparity and also shuts down international distribution or parallel imports. Although I'm sure I will still be able to get whatever shimano replacement parts I need from German retailers who will be happy to fill the void when the British retailers stop shipping to the US. Shimano's pricing strategy has only been tolerable because prices are still low on complete bikes and replacement parts are easily available from international retailers. If that's not true anymore, I just won't buy shimano. Pretty sure the only sram part I've ever had on one of my bikes was a grip-shift on my mountain bike in the late 90's.
kingston is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 12:04 PM
  #17  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 3,721

Bikes: https://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1758 Post(s)
Liked 484 Times in 311 Posts
Originally Posted by TrojanHorse
Let me introduce you to the drug industry...
It's not really a good analogy because of the single-payer system in most of the world vs. our hopelessly screwed up third-party payer system in the US. None of the monopsony purchasing power or regulatory burden that causes drug price disparity is in place for bike parts.
kingston is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 12:19 PM
  #18  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 15,889

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 121 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10293 Post(s)
Liked 6,732 Times in 3,811 Posts
@Psimet2001 needs to chime in on this.
What are the thoughts from a jaded shop owner who doesnt really sell components?

Seriously- im interested to hear your take on the news.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 12:27 PM
  #19  
MattTheHat 
Senior Member
 
MattTheHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 2,544

Bikes: 2021 S-Works Turbo Creo SL, 2020 Specialized Roubaix Expert

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 749 Post(s)
Liked 3,804 Times in 1,348 Posts
Originally Posted by Padj
Shimano have turned to junk recently
What?

-Matt
MattTheHat is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 12:34 PM
  #20  
TrojanHorse
SuperGimp
 
TrojanHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 13,346

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 147 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by kingston
It's not really a good analogy because of the single-payer system in most of the world vs. our hopelessly screwed up third-party payer system in the US. None of the monopsony purchasing power or regulatory burden that causes drug price disparity is in place for bike parts.
No, very different circumstance but the out-of-whack pricing is similarly head scratching.

As for resale price maintenance... tons of companies do it. Speedplay has been irritatingly consistent with it, and if you don't like you can always use Look, which I have recently found to be superior.

I got a complete 5800 drive train for... I want to say $330, a year ago. Great deal! Maybe next time I spend the money renovating the old 6500 drive train that it replaced instead. (shrug)
TrojanHorse is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 01:51 PM
  #21  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,384

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,545 Times in 960 Posts
I posted this on Slowtwitch the other day.....if you want to feel crappy.....check out the difference anywhere online versus an LBS for Conti tires.......

It's outrageous. A GP4000 tubular is $80 online........$140 in the store.

Talk about a total BS rip. I understand they run the "specials" a few times a year where you almost get a 2-for on Conti tires in brick-mortar stores........but the day to day difference is there.

Some of the disparity for online e-tail isn't just availability, shipping, and taxes.......it's manufacturers not playing nice with the rules for the small guys in the first place.

I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing a ton of "new takeoff" Shimano parts online along side a crap-ton of almost throwaway alloy generic road bike frames. Think "Nashbar CX bike".
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 02:36 PM
  #22  
DorkDisk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kips Bay, NY
Posts: 2,140

Bikes: Ritchey Swiss Cross | Teesdale Kona Hot | Haro Extreme | Specialized Stumpjumper Comp | Cannondale F1000 | Shogun 1000 | Cannondale M500 | Norco Charger | Marin Muirwoods 29er | Shogun Kaze | Breezer Lightning

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 549 Post(s)
Liked 883 Times in 449 Posts
Originally Posted by JonathanGennick
Here is some news worthy of note:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...a#.XBul4Vw3lhE

Shops of course are rejoicing, but I am sitting here and dying a little bit on the inside. Because Chain Reaction has provided a glimpse of what's possible when the supply-chain is made shorter and more efficient. Few things have contributed to my enjoyment of cycling as much as the ready availability of modestly-priced parts and the wide selection that's been available on the Internet.
Shops need their wholesale prices lower, not their lower priced competitor eliminated. But I guess that is not Shimano's problem
DorkDisk is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 02:48 PM
  #23  
Cyclist0108
Occam's Rotor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times in 1,164 Posts
Originally Posted by JonathanGennick
The comments section on that article is particularly eye-opening.

One guy says the two biggest problems bike shops face is on-line competition and having to contribute to health insurance for their wage-slaves.


Cyclist0108 is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 03:50 PM
  #24  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,415

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4595 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times in 943 Posts
What I'm not clear on, are LBS prices in the UK comparable to that offered by the UK online stores, or the same disparity we have here between LBS and eg. Comp Cyclist etc. Try to keep responses relevant to 'authorized' sellers.

And not sure if it's already a level playing field anyway... eg. doing a sample search on a Shimano 8050 di2 RD.. It's $207 at PBK, $217 at Merlin, though $170 at CRC. Meanwhile I think a lot of these are US etailers, correct? There's not much in it for a UK benefit for this example anyway

Sy Reene is offline  
Old 12-20-18, 04:12 PM
  #25  
ridelikeaturtle
Senior Member
 
ridelikeaturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 1,226

Bikes: Bianchi Ti Megatube; Colnago Competition; Planet-X EC-130E; Klein Pulse; Amp Research B4; Litespeed Catalyst; Fondriest Squadra Corse; Trek Y11

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 580 Post(s)
Liked 413 Times in 237 Posts
This wouldn't have anything to do with the dotard's "trade war" tariffs, would it?
ridelikeaturtle is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.