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White Lightning Clean Ride -- How to apply

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White Lightning Clean Ride -- How to apply

Old 01-08-19, 09:21 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Wattsup View Post
Why did you buy the R&R?
To try it. I occasionally try something different. I'm seldom impressed. I've tried Finish Line's Dry and didn't find it to be so. I've tried WD-40's dry and also didn't find it to be dry. A further count against it is that it smells like Hai Karate. I didn't want to revisit my high school days
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Old 01-08-19, 03:03 PM
  #27  
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A further count against it is that it smells like Hai Karate.
Mmm, be careful how you use it!! Brings back memories from my childhood......


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Old 01-08-19, 04:26 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
Mmm, be careful how you use it!! Brings back memories from my childhood......
That's the reason I didn't use it! I didn't want to get attacked while riding. My wife probably would have taken a dim view of it as well.
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Old 02-11-19, 10:26 AM
  #29  
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Did a 30 mile trail ride yesterday which consisted of about 75% gravel. A decent amount of the trail was soupy mud. The Clean Ride lasted about 15 miles. That's not going to work for me. I applied the stuff to the chain off the bike, so maybe I didn't use enough. In the company's video they practically pour the stuff on.
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Old 02-11-19, 10:50 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Wattsup View Post
Did a 30 mile trail ride yesterday BUT The Clean Ride lasted about 15 miles
sorry, what does this mean? it started squeaking? I only ask cuz I recently added a dry lube, then went for a similar nasty ride where the drive train was tortured, grinding & sucking in low gear to the point where I had to rinse it with bottle water mid-ride. my MTB mudflap can only do so much ... It never occurred to me to carry chain lube, but maybe that's an idea. or of course can just use the wet lube I have from last winter ...
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Old 02-11-19, 11:42 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
sorry, what does this mean? it started squeaking? I only ask cuz I recently added a dry lube, then went for a similar nasty ride where the drive train was tortured, grinding & sucking in low gear to the point where I had to rinse it with bottle water mid-ride. my MTB mudflap can only do so much ... It never occurred to me to carry chain lube, but maybe that's an idea. or of course can just use the wet lube I have from last winter ...
It was squeaking and making some some strange noises while pedaling under load. When I got home and put the bike on the stand, all i could hear was the squeaking. No chain suck though. This type of ride I guess was too much for the wax...it got washed or wiped off by the mud.

I'm not even sure Clean Ride will work well when applied in the field during a ride. I think the mineral spirit carrier needs time to dry. Maybe I'll try it next time and find out. After todays snow I'm sure the trail will be muddy as heck for a couple of weeks.
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Old 02-11-19, 02:17 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Wattsup View Post
not even sure Clean Ride will work well when applied in the field during a ride. I think the mineral spirit carrier needs time to dry. After today's snow I'm sure the trail will be muddy as heck for a couple of weeks.
interesting point. also probably best to avoid mud to preserve the trails. there's one near me that is almost all mud, so that's easy to avoid unless the ground is frozen, then it should be OK to ride. that situation comes & goes, but I shud be better at predicting that. Another trail I like, has only occasional mud, but mostly pine needles & gravel
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Old 02-11-19, 02:24 PM
  #33  
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WD40 is a good all-rounder, from my point of view. Yes, you have to use it once or twice a week, but I've not noticed rust, excess dust collection since discovering it a long time ago. Seems OK on roads here, too. Highly subjective, of course, but, although I was given special chain oil for the Time, not really noticed much difference.
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Old 02-11-19, 05:11 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Welcome to the club! I haven't been using Squirt but I have been doing this to my chains while using White Lightning for about 20 years. I've gone about 2 decades without having to do the constant chain cleaning rigamarole. More importantly, I can handle the drivetrain without a hazmat suit.
I 've been using HuskyVarna bar-chain oil. But I want to start using wax-type from White Lignthing . Do I need to buy a new chain first?

Or is it okay to put wax lube onto a chain that already has oil in it?

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Old 02-11-19, 05:19 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Wattsup View Post
It was squeaking and making some some strange noises while pedaling under load. When I got home and put the bike on the stand, all i could hear was the squeaking. No chain suck though. This type of ride I guess was too much for the wax...it got washed or wiped off by the mud.

I'm not even sure Clean Ride will work well when applied in the field during a ride. I think the mineral spirit carrier needs time to dry. Maybe I'll try it next time and find out. After todays snow I'm sure the trail will be muddy as heck for a couple of weeks.
First, wax cannot be "washed off". It's impossible. Wax is 100% hydrophobic...as in about as close as you can get to zero water solubility.

Second, do you really think that an oil based lubricant would give you any different result under the same conditions? Mud will gum up any chain, independent of the lubricant. An oil based lubricant might cover up the noise a little but that's all it is...cover.

Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
interesting point. also probably best to avoid mud to preserve the trails.
Absolutely. Any mountain biker worthy of the moniker avoids leaving a lasting impression of his ride by avoiding muddy trails. It's not about protecting the bike but about protecting the resource.
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Old 02-11-19, 06:00 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
First, wax cannot be "washed off". It's impossible. Wax is 100% hydrophobic...as in about as close as you can get to zero water solubility.

Second, do you really think that an oil based lubricant would give you any different result under the same conditions? Mud will gum up any chain, independent of the lubricant. An oil based lubricant might cover up the noise a little but that's all it is...cover.



Absolutely. Any mountain biker worthy of the moniker avoids leaving a lasting impression of his ride by avoiding muddy trails. It's not about protecting the bike but about protecting the resource.

So let me understand. You're trying to make the case that a dry wax lube is just as good as a wet lube in wet, muddy conditions? I think thousands of bikers in these forums would dispute that....from personal experience, as would I. The only disadvantage of a wet lube in conditions like I found yesterday is having to thoroughly clean the drive train after a ride. During the ride the performance is superior. My wax lube, for whatever reason, didn't exist on the second half of my ride yesterday. As for being worthy....., this soupy mud is mostly runoff onto gravel and asphalt trails. It's not a dirt trail. I think the "footprint" left is minimal.
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Old 02-11-19, 06:18 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Wattsup View Post
So let me understand. You're trying to make the case that a dry wax lube is just as good as a wet lube in wet, muddy conditions? I think thousands of bikers in these forums would dispute that....from personal experience, as would I. The only disadvantage of a wet lube in conditions like I found yesterday is having to thoroughly clean the drive train after a ride. During the ride the performance is superior. My wax lube, for whatever reason, didn't exist on the second half of my ride yesterday. As for being worthy....., this soupy mud is mostly runoff onto gravel and asphalt trails. It's not a dirt trail. I think the "footprint" left is minimal.
I gave up on wax and silicone based lubes for the same reason. Too many times 30 miles in mid ride with a "dry" rough squeeky and noisy chain. I'll take an occasional chain tattoo over that. It is what it is

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Old 02-11-19, 06:33 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Wattsup View Post
So let me understand. You're trying to make the case that a dry wax lube is just as good as a wet lube in wet, muddy conditions?
That’s exactly what I am saying. Why would wet lubricant be any better? I might even go further and say that it is better in a lot of ways.

The same mud and particulate sprays up on the chain despite the lubricant used. The liquid lubricant mixes with the water and carries the grit down into the chain. The liquid wax gets pump away from the spaces where it is needed and gets pumped back when the pressure is off the chain. Each time the fluid moves and and moves back, it refreshes the grit.

The solid lubricant doesn’t mix with the grit and acts to actively block the grit from getting down into the chain. Granted it doesn’t move back into fill the space once it is displaced but it doesn’t carry a bunch of grit with it. Some grit might get in there since water will fill gap sometimes but it isn’t an active pump.

I think thousands of bikers in these forums would dispute that....from personal experience, as would I.
I’ve used oil based lubricants in the past. I never noticed any advantages in wet conditions over the wax lubricant I use no. The chain is slightly noisier with the wax but the noise means little. The grit being suspended in the oil lube is doing damage silently which fools people into thinking that nothing is happening. Silence doesn’t mean that nothing is happening...you just aren’t hearing it happen.

If oil based lubricants had any advantages with regard to wear, why is the wear mileage the same for wax and for oil lubricants

The only disadvantage of a wet lube in conditions like I found yesterday is having to thoroughly clean the drive train after a ride. During the ride the performance is superior. My wax lube, for whatever reason, didn't exist on the second half of my ride yesterday.
By what measure would the performance be “superior”. Was it just quiet? That’s not necessarily “superior”. Lots of bad things happen in silence. Grinding of metal can be done quite quietly in the presence of a lubricant.

As for being worthy....., this soupy mud is mostly runoff onto gravel and asphalt trails. It's not a dirt trail. I think the "footprint" left is minimal.
More specificity would help . A “trail” is usually something different from a packed gravel path.
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Old 02-11-19, 06:42 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post


That’s exactly what I am saying. Why would wet lubricant be any better? I might even go further and say that it is better in a lot of ways.

The same mud and particulate sprays up on the chain despite the lubricant used. The liquid lubricant mixes with the water and carries the grit down into the chain. The liquid wax gets pump away from the spaces where it is needed and gets pumped back when the pressure is off the chain. Each time the fluid moves and and moves back, it refreshes the grit.

The solid lubricant doesn’t mix with the grit and acts to actively block the grit from getting down into the chain. Granted it doesn’t move back into fill the space once it is displaced but it doesn’t carry a bunch of grit with it. Some grit might get in there since water will fill gap sometimes but it isn’t an active pump.



I’ve used oil based lubricants in the past. I never noticed any advantages in wet conditions over the wax lubricant I use no. The chain is slightly noisier with the wax but the noise means little. The grit being suspended in the oil lube is doing damage silently which fools people into thinking that nothing is happening. Silence doesn’t mean that nothing is happening...you just aren’t hearing it happen.

If oil based lubricants had any advantages with regard to wear, why is the wear mileage the same for wax and for oil lubricants



By what measure would the performance be “superior”. Was it just quiet? That’s not necessarily “superior”. Lots of bad things happen in silence. Grinding of metal can be done quite quietly in the presence of a lubricant.



More specificity would help . A “trail” is usually something different from a packed gravel path.

So now you're suggesting that a bare chain is better? Pretty hypothetical. Just like your hypothesis that Squirt is inferior because it contains detergents. As far as the "trail," according to whom is trail something different than packed gravel? Can you provide a citation? The municipality that hosts the thoroughfare in question refers to it as a "trail."
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Old 02-11-19, 07:14 PM
  #40  
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The best way to apply White Lightning is to apply it to the trash can. This sort of liquid wax with a carrier product doesn't hold up long at all, on dry conditions it might last a medium length ride but on long rides the chain will start to make noise, but if you don't plan on anything longer than 50 miles ever it should be ok, but if it rains the lube is done for. You also may want to consider why White Lightning is available at Walmart!

There are a lot of good lubes on the market I use Rock N Roll Ultimate Dry only because I live in S California, but it keeps the chain clean and will hold up to rain better than White Lightning but it's wise to reapply after a rain but at least the chain won't make noise after a rain; I think the other two Rock N Roll products are also very outstanding. Another good lube is Finish Line Dry Teflon; Finish Line was sold to DuPont, so now DuPont is using their teflon in the Finish Line product line which is the highest grade teflon in the world; I haven't used the new stuff so I can't vouch for how good it is.
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Old 02-11-19, 07:55 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Wattsup View Post
So now you're suggesting that a bare chain is better? Pretty hypothetical. Just like your hypothesis that Squirt is inferior because it contains detergents. As far as the "trail," according to whom is trail something different than packed gravel? Can you provide a citation? The municipality that hosts the thoroughfare in question refers to it as a "trail."

The flaw in his analogy is thinking that so called "solid" lubricant doesn't mix with the dirt as liquid lubricants do. First of all "solid" lubricant is a misnomer. It actually liquifies and wicks down into the chain as liquid lubricants do. Think about it, it has to liquify in order to find its way into the chain. It forms an emulsion with the grit as do all lubricants. The fact is, longevity of the chain has been proven to be the same with either type of chain lube you prefer. The best thing to do for chain maintenance is to lube with your preferred product on the schedule you wish and wipe the exterior of the chain with a rag as needed to keep exterior grime from developing.
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Old 02-12-19, 08:51 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Wattsup View Post
So now you're suggesting that a bare chain is better? Pretty hypothetical.
When did I say that a "bare chain" was better? Water isn't going to wash off wax. Water has a better chance of lifting oil off the surface than wax because of the dynamics of how oil and water interact. That would result in more of a "bare chain" than wax would. The action of the chain moving the wax away from the points of pressure may leave some bare spots and that could result in some squeaking but the question to ask is the squeak anything to worry about?

Look at it this way: Based on people's reports on chain wear and my own experience, a chain lubricated with oil lasts about 3500 miles and a chain lubricated with wax lasts about 3500 miles. The lubricant doesn't seem to matter. If oil were superior to wax in terms of lubrication, it would provide longer wear. The oil presents a maintenance nightmare while the wax doesn't. To me, since they are equivalent in mileage, the choice is between constant cleaning and not cleaning at all.

Honestly, I'm rather surprised by oil's inability to provide longer chain mileage. Theoretically, it should reduce where because of it's better lubricity. But I think there are two mechanisms at work here. With oil, the chain gathers grit which increases wear through abrasion. With wax, the higher likelihood of metal-on-metal contact increase wear but grit isn't a problem because it isn't gathered by the chain. The choice, again, comes down to maintenance.

I would like to address something you said above about applying White Lightning off the bike. I'm not even sure how you could do that but it is better to apply it on the bike. The solvent carrier flushes the old lubricant through the chain and the lubricant stays in the chain better. If you were to do it on a bench or on a cloth on a bench, the solvent carrier is going to wick away from the chain and take the wax with it.

Originally Posted by Wattsup View Post
Just like your hypothesis that Squirt is inferior because it contains detergents.
I didn't say "inferior". I said that there is a possibility of it being more prone to washing off. When you put a detergent into a mixture so that you can dissolve a wax in water, that detergent doesn't just "go away" when the water evaporates. It is still there. Add water and the detergent does what it did originally. The wax could wash off in situations where the chain is getting sprayed such as your recent ride.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:09 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
First, wax cannot be "washed off". It's impossible. Wax is 100% hydrophobic...as in about as close as you can get to zero water solubility.
Ever seen a power washer at work? Doesn't matter if what it's cleaning is water soluble or not. Water moving across stuff moves it -- even rocks in a creek.

"Wet" lubes wet the chain, meaning the lube clings to the bare metal. My experience (and others) is that such a lube will stay on a bike chain longer than wax.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:17 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by greatscott View Post
The best way to apply White Lightning is to apply it to the trash can. This sort of liquid wax with a carrier product doesn't hold up long at all, on dry conditions it might last a medium length ride but on long rides the chain will start to make noise, but if you don't plan on anything longer than 50 miles ever it should be ok, but if it rains the lube is done for. You also may want to consider why White Lightning is available at Walmart!
I've been using it for 20+ years in every imaginable condition. It holds up just fine in my experience. And it lasts a lot longer than 50 miles. I can go 600 to 700 miles between applications without issue. And, as I stated above, I get the same mileage out of a chain as is commonly reported. Yes, the lubricant needs to be applied again after rain but oil based lubricants should be applied after rain as well. Oil and water will emulsify and the water will settle out on the chain. Water in contact with metal facilitates rust.

As for it being available at Walmart, so? Lots of products are available at Walmart. Are you saying that they are all inferior to the ones you can purchase elsewhere? Is that Tide you buy at Walmart not as good as the Tide you buy at Krogers?

Originally Posted by greatscott View Post
There are a lot of good lubes on the market I use Rock N Roll Ultimate Dry only because I live in S California, but it keeps the chain clean and will hold up to rain better than White Lightning but it's wise to reapply after a rain but at least the chain won't make noise after a rain; I think the other two Rock N Roll products are also very outstanding. Another good lube is Finish Line Dry Teflon; Finish Line was sold to DuPont, so now DuPont is using their teflon in the Finish Line product line which is the highest grade teflon in the world; I haven't used the new stuff so I can't vouch for how good it is.
You do realize that all of the products you are suggesting are "wax with a carrier", don't you? Oil based lubricants are just oil with a carrier. There are a few products out there that don't have a carrier...like Chain L, Phil's Tenacious Oil, etc...but those are even worse to deal with than other oil based lubricants. I used Phil's for a long time and really didn't like dealing with the mess.

As to the magic "Teflon", Teflon in a lubricant is just particles of Teflon in that dreaded "carrier". It's not like you are going to get a shell of Teflon on your chain when you apply it. It's pretty much like a wax in that respect.

Originally Posted by frogman View Post
The flaw in his analogy is thinking that so called "solid" lubricant doesn't mix with the dirt as liquid lubricants do. First of all "solid" lubricant is a misnomer. It actually liquifies and wicks down into the chain as liquid lubricants do. Think about it, it has to liquify in order to find its way into the chain. It forms an emulsion with the grit as do all lubricants. The fact is, longevity of the chain has been proven to be the same with either type of chain lube you prefer. The best thing to do for chain maintenance is to lube with your preferred product on the schedule you wish and wipe the exterior of the chain with a rag as needed to keep exterior grime from developing.
Chains on bicycles don't generate enough heat to "liquify" wax during pedaling. The wax can be pushed out of the way as it is plastic but it doesn't "liquify". That's one of the (slight) failings of wax. It doesn't flow back into the gaps when the pedaling pressure is removed like oils do. But that means that it doesn't pump grit back into the gaps either. Yes, the wax has to be liquified to apply it but that can be done with either heat (hot wax) or a solvent. Once the heat or solvent is removed, the wax is a solid again and, as a solid, it won't form an emulsion because it isn't that fluid. It keeps the grit out of the chain. I've solvent washed both oiled chains and waxed chains and there is grit present with the oiled chain but not in the waxed chain.

As to the longevity, that is my point. Both methods provide the same mileage for the reasons I've given above but wax requires less work to keep it clean. There is simply not need to "wipe the exterior of the chain". Even with oil, wipe the exterior of the chain is questionable. All wiping does is force the surface grim (along with microscopic grit particles) into the chain. It would be far better to flood the chain with fresh oil, get it to run through and then wipe it.

Or just use something that doesn't attract and hold grit in the first place.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:21 AM
  #45  
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I ve been swayed by cycco's arguments. I'll give WL a try.

Got'a remember to stop by Walmart tonite.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:26 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Ever seen a power washer at work? Doesn't matter if what it's cleaning is water soluble or not. Water moving across stuff moves it -- even rocks in a creek.

"Wet" lubes wet the chain, meaning the lube clings to the bare metal. My experience (and others) is that such a lube will stay on a bike chain longer than wax.
Do you ride with a power washer spraying on the bike? The pressure generated by spray from the wheel is minimal. It would be less than the pressure water coming from a faucet. That's what I mean by "washing off". That's what most people mean as well. Physically removing the wax is different from chemically removing the wax.

On the other hand, oil is mobile and much more likely to be removed physically by a spray of water than wax is. The oil and water churn up into an emulsion. The emulsion can be removed by the addition of more water. The only reason that oil lubricated chains don't squeak as much as wax lubricated ones do is because the oil flows back into the gaps and silences the squeak. The water is still there but after resting for a while, the water layer is not on the metal surface. You only "think" the lubricant is staying on the bike chain longer.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:30 AM
  #47  
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Rain falling out of the sky did a good job of washing wax off my chain.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:31 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
I ve been swayed by cycco's arguments. I'll give WL a try.

Got'a remember to stop by Walmart tonite.
Same here. Ordered some off Amazon.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:36 AM
  #49  
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NFS is the best chain lube.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:44 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Rain falling out of the sky did a good job of washing wax off my chain.
No, it didn't. Take some wax, put it in a jar of a water and come back 6 months later. Remove the wax, dry it and weigh it. You'll find that there is no decrease in weight. Or take a brick of wax and put it under running water. Waste a whole reservoir of water on it and you'll still find the same weight as you started out. Wax is water insoluble. That's why it is used to seal stuff...from water infiltration.

What people think is wax "washing off" is what I've posted above in more then one post. The wax gets shoved off the pressure points but can't really flow back. Some metal gets exposed and the surface can rust which leads to a squeak. Is that bad? Maybe but oil is doing the same because the water sits on the metal...since the oil separates from the water and the water is on the bottom. The water is doing the same thing it does with the wax but the "squeak" is being masked by the oil since it flows. The same damage is being done which can easily be seen by the fact that it makes little difference what lubricant you use in terms of mileage.
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