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What Are The Advantages Of Tubeless and Why.??

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What Are The Advantages Of Tubeless and Why.??

Old 01-16-19, 09:48 AM
  #51  
NoWhammies
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I agree with @TimothyH If the OP wants a 1:1 chat about my experiences with tubeless feel free to drop me PM.
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Old 01-16-19, 09:49 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
And, to be clear, Iím not a timid rider. I bomb downhills as fast as Iím able.
Nah.

"The first 1/4 mile is easy with a few minor steps to negotiate until the Pipe Gate. Just beyond the Pipe Gate, however, is the steepest part of the ride. Look at the elevation chart in "The Ride" page to get an idea of just how steep this is. Remember what I said about not being stupid? This is where the route is stupid. The trail is a rock strewn 200 foot drop in around a tenth of a mile with 16% pitches. Make a mistake and it will take your buddies 20 minutes to find cell phone coverage, 45 minutes for the La Junta Volunteer Fire Department to get out to you and more than 30 minutes for the closest Flight For Life helicopter to get here from Denver. That's a long time to wait with bones sticking out your body or brains oozing out of your ears.

I've seen one person ride down this. Everyone else walks. Walk down it unless riding in a helicopter is a personal goal."

"Looking down from the Pipe Gate"


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Old 01-16-19, 09:55 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I can run the same pressures as you can.
Nah.

I run 18-20 psi without rim damage (which you cite as a reason why you can't run those pressures), without a tire that "squirms and wallows" ( which you cite as a reason why you can't run those pressures), without abnormal risk of sidewall damage (which you cite as a reason why you can't run those pressures), and with a great deal of confidence (lack of confidence is another reason that you cite as to why you can't run those pressures).

The amount of misinformation about tubeless tires that you manage to spread in just a single thread is simply amazing .


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Old 01-16-19, 10:00 AM
  #54  
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^^^Lightweight!........""I've seen one person ride down this. Everyone else walks. Walk down it unless riding in a helicopter is a personal goal.""
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Old 01-16-19, 10:06 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by balut bandit View Post
Lower pressure = better grip and lower rolling resistance.

p.s. plugging a flat tubeless tire is quick and easy. Faster than putting in a tube.
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Can you support that assertion?
It's difficult to measure rolling resistance in the field. It's feasible, if done carefully, on the road but much more difficult to do on a rough singletrack. The thought behind the claim of lower rolling resistance is that lower pressures allow the tire to act as a shock absorber and transmit less movement to the bike/rider. Doesn't seem unreasonable.

In any case I don't think there is a rational argument for not running tubeless if you do a lot of mountain biking. Not worth it for me as I don't ride the MTB often enough to justify the hassle but for those who ride a lot, particularly if they are riding competitively, tubeless is the way to go primarily for the increased traction one can achieve.
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Old 01-16-19, 10:12 AM
  #56  
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This thread is better than any recent frame material thread.

BTW...Is anyone else bothered by "less flats"?
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Old 01-16-19, 10:41 AM
  #57  
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YER GUNNA RUIN YER RIMS IF'N THERE AIN'T A TUBE IN THERE!!



I've ruined a tubeless rim-- I hit a canyon-sized pothole with the front wheel @ 30mph, while I may or may not have been drafting a bus. A 16-spoke Shimano WH-6800. Didn't burp, didn't lose pressure, didn't go out of true. It did go a bit out of round, though. And while is is purely speculation on my part, it is my feeling that had it been a conventional tubed tire, I would have ended up scattered on the pavement, because that tire would have gone flat instantly, at 30mph.
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Old 01-16-19, 10:48 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
This thread is better than any recent frame material thread.

BTW...Is anyone else bothered by "less flats"?

Probably fewer than you suspect.
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Old 01-16-19, 11:50 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Probably fewer than you suspect.
This is BF. My expectation are low.
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Old 01-16-19, 12:02 PM
  #60  
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1) What are the advantages of tubeless?
2) Why?

For my use:
1) No more common flats from thorns. (Because the sealant works).
2) Because I hate fixing flats during a ride.

Currently only tubeless on mtn bike.

For me it is the fact that flats are pretty much a thing of the past. I have looked down at my front tire before and it had maybe 25 goat head thorns. With tubeless the sealant works great for this situation. You just ride on, no worries. It is a real game changer for the most common flat that I used to encounter while mtn biking.

Only downside for me is that I seem to occasionaly forget to check and top off sealant before it dries out.

All my road bikes have rims that are tubeless ready, but have not yet tried tubeless on the road.

Good luck
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Old 01-16-19, 12:22 PM
  #61  
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OP here. This thread has gone astray. Stay on topic so I don' have to read through a bunch of crap. Thanks.
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Old 01-16-19, 12:39 PM
  #62  
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Uhmmm, nobody said you can't run Stan's in a tubular or clincher. Works the same as in a tubeless.

Also, you can gently ride a tubular flat and you can't a clincher and maybe not a tubeless if it unseats.

Pros still run tubs for many reasons.
Joes don't as gluing tubs isn't some folk's idea of fun interaction with their bike.

I glued my first tubs recently and I found it quite therapeutic.

I think to answer the above:

1. Tubeless is faster to setup than tubulars while offering similar "incident" sealing capability, avoiding stops for things like pinches or thorns.
2. Why? I don't understand the question. But most people are probably too lazy to glue tubulars versus the time to prep a tubeless tire.

The ONLY reason you don't see tubulars often in the CRR testing is that you get glue variability you don't have with clinchers and tubeless. So it can be unfair to compare some tubs depending on the glue job quality.

Also, I don't know of a CRR testing outfit with enough time/patience to glue up a bunch of tubulars and constantly clean up the rims afterwards from each test.

It's just totally impractical.

But, lots of name brand racing tubs ARE as fast or faster than many "super fast" tubeless and clinchers. They just aren't tested.
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Old 01-16-19, 12:57 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by BirdsBikeBinocs View Post
OP here. This thread has gone astray. Stay on topic so I don' have to read through a bunch of crap. Thanks.
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Old 01-16-19, 08:45 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by BirdsBikeBinocs View Post
OP here. This thread has gone astray. Stay on topic so I don' have to read through a bunch of crap. Thanks.
You get what you pay for.
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Old 01-18-19, 06:10 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by balut bandit View Post
Lower pressure = better grip and lower rolling resistance.

p.s. plugging a flat tubeless tire is quick and easy. Faster than putting in a tube.
That is all dependent on weight of the rider and conditions. I am around 170 and run my XC MTB tires at about 20 psi. Any higher and I feel like I am bouncing over the ground instead of rolling. My Strava times support that this pressure is faster for me. That may not apply to another rider. I ride with a guy that is closer to 220 and at 30 psi, his tire his tire looks under inflated to me...He likes it though and is not an aggressive rider so he has yet to smash his rim...

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Old 01-18-19, 11:50 AM
  #66  
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I ran tubeless on all my bikes for a while -- a fat bike, a mountain bike, a cross bike and a road. Now I just use conventional tires and tubes or, when racing, a tubular wheelset for my road bike.

Below 700x28, tubeless tires and sealant seem to me to have more cons than pros.
Cons
* at higher pressures, sealants have more work to do -- the air pushes harder when there's a cut, manufacturing gap or wrinkle, etc. Sometimes it's hard to even inflate road tubeless past 100 psi. Really depends on having a tight seal, where with lower pressure high volume tires all the math works great.
* there is less air volume to support the sealing process. You might have a small puncture, not know it, and lose 30 psi before it's plugged up.
* much harder to install
*heavier (for road sized tires)
*stiffer tires, and less selection
Pros
*Protection against little shards of glass, thorns, etc
*Avoid pinch flats (in theory)

The last part, avoiding pinch flats, is where I'm stuck waffling about whether it's even a pro. I don't get many pinch flats, and I guess I'd rather have sufficient air pressure to prevent the rim from hard strikes against asphalt. I ran tubeless road tires until I hit a big pothole with sharp edges and broke a carbon rim. The tire flatted and belched out all its sealant.
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Old 01-19-19, 06:44 AM
  #67  
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As a proponent of tubeless, I feel I need to point out a downside.

I broke a spoke yesterday on a “boutique” wheel that has proprietary spokes and one of those “system” type of setups. Never again, but I digress. Anyway, my LBS will charge extra if I don’t remove the tire, solvent, and clean the rim and I don’t really blame them.

Not a big downside to running tubeless, but still, one more thing to deal with when changing a tire.

EDIT: For the record, tire was removed as was the sealant and base tape and all cleaned up in <10 minutes. Also,2 oz. of new sealant November 1st and still had 1.5 oz of viable sealant left.
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Old 01-20-19, 05:35 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by BirdsBikeBinocs View Post
OP here. This thread has gone astray. Stay on topic so I don' have to read through a bunch of crap. Thanks.
advantage.... I have mavic wheels, and I am running WTB tubeless ready tires with tubes.

so I was going from 20 something psi to 10 ish every several days. It was a nightmare and WORK to mount these tires. I'd never be able to fix a flat on the trail. So I pull one side of the tire off, which was more work than putting it on, pulled the tube, and found no hole!

because I wanted to ride, I went ahead on dropped another tube in it. However the first chance I get I'll be going to the bike store for valves with removable cores and buying a bottle of sealant. It's a long walk home in 10 degree weather with a flat tire. and No I am not going to call anyone at 2 - 4 am asking for a ride.

I suppose I could go back to riding a tubed tire. however, briars are hard to see under the snow. Tubeless just makes more sense for this bike in this situation.
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Old 01-20-19, 12:45 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
advantage.... I have mavic wheels, and I am running WTB tubeless ready tires with tubes.

so I was going from 20 something psi to 10 ish every several days. It was a nightmare and WORK to mount these tires. I'd never be able to fix a flat on the trail. So I pull one side of the tire off, which was more work than putting it on, pulled the tube, and found no hole!

because I wanted to ride, I went ahead on dropped another tube in it. However the first chance I get I'll be going to the bike store for valves with removable cores and buying a bottle of sealant. It's a long walk home in 10 degree weather with a flat tire. and No I am not going to call anyone at 2 - 4 am asking for a ride.

I suppose I could go back to riding a tubed tire. however, briars are hard to see under the snow. Tubeless just makes more sense for this bike in this situation.
That's an interesting post. Mostly pessimistic but in the end you're going to go tubeless anyhow. And I mean no harm in this observation. I've read all the replies and I don't think I'll be going tubeless any time soon. I don't need another PIA in my life.

Further more, it is soo easy to change a tube that I just can't justify tubeless. IMO, tubeless wins every time. No biggie at all. Especially since I've had 2 flats riding on asphalt and wooded trails for roughly 1,000 miles. 42c on my Schwinn and I run them up to pressure. I like a nice roll on asphalt. And I understand, I could have 5 flats on my next outing. So be it.....
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Old 01-20-19, 01:15 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by BirdsBikeBinocs View Post
That's an interesting post. Mostly pessimistic but
A pessimistic way of being positive? haha

Typically it (normally) is easy to change a tube, that is if the tire bead isn't locked into the wheel. TLR on a none TLR wheel. With probably one of the worst combinations of wheel /tire compatibility on the market. Mavic wheels run large, and TLR tires run small. It takes a whole lot of elbow grease and raw fingers and dish soap, and 3 tire levers to get the tires mounted. Once the bead is set. it is locked!

I didn't mean to come off as pessimistic , it is just the way it is and a series of events that led up to what I have. I needed a decent 9mm QR wheel set, but didn't feel like investing, Because 1. I might not stick with 29er. 2. I have no clue if I will go to boost spacing.
I was running WTB bronsons. I needed new tires the Exiwolfs are 2.35 and I picked them up on sale and they actually work better for what I ride.


On the other hand my 91 Schwinn Crosscut hybrid will never be tubeless, It runs 40c tubed MSO tires, or 38c Panaracer Pasela protites
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Old 01-20-19, 02:12 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
A pessimistic way of being positive? haha

Typically it (normally) is easy to change a tube, that is if the tire bead isn't locked into the wheel. TLR on a none TLR wheel. With probably one of the worst combinations of wheel /tire compatibility on the market. Mavic wheels run large, and TLR tires run small. It takes a whole lot of elbow grease and raw fingers and dish soap, and 3 tire levers to get the tires mounted. Once the bead is set. it is locked!

I didn't mean to come off as pessimistic , it is just the way it is and a series of events that led up to what I have. I needed a decent 9mm QR wheel set, but didn't feel like investing, Because 1. I might not stick with 29er. 2. I have no clue if I will go to boost spacing.
I was running WTB bronsons. I needed new tires the Exiwolfs are 2.35 and I picked them up on sale and they actually work better for what I ride.


On the other hand my 91 Schwinn Crosscut hybrid will never be tubeless, It runs 40c tubed MSO tires, or 38c Panaracer Pasela protites
Ya, pessimistic. You used words like "WORK" and "nightmare" and "More work getting the tire off than putting the tire on." So ya, these words surely aren't optimistic. Your post has help me decide that no, I'll never go tubeless. Too easy to change a tube. It eliminates a nightmare. It's less WORK. And it's easy to get a tire on and NOT harder to take a tire off.

Your words not mine.... No harm here. Just pointing out the cons that you've stated here of tubeless.
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Old 01-20-19, 02:17 PM
  #72  
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I like the idea of tubeless. OTOH, I get 1 or 2 flats a year and I can't see how converting my bikes is cost effective. Is there some proven performance benefit. And, do I need it at 72 yr. of age?
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Old 01-20-19, 02:29 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by BirdsBikeBinocs View Post
Ya, pessimistic. You used words like "WORK" and "nightmare" and "More work getting the tire off than putting the tire on." So ya, these words surely aren't optimistic. Your post has help me decide that no, I'll never go tubeless. Too easy to change a tube. It eliminates a nightmare. It's less WORK. And it's easy to get a tire on and NOT harder to take a tire off.

Your words not mine.... No harm here. Just pointing out the cons that you've stated here of tubeless.
you missed the point that I have non tubeless wheelset, And in my siuation. it's better to run my setup tubeless. because changing a tube on the road/trail isn't going to be happening.

then again this entire thread is pointless. your mind was already made up, before you even asked the question. so why even ask?
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Old 01-20-19, 02:33 PM
  #74  
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It's like Uhhh hey bicycle forum,
I don't like bicycles or riding them, but whats the advantages to owning one?
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Old 01-20-19, 03:30 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
It's like Uhhh hey bicycle forum,
I don't like bicycles or riding them, but whats the advantages to owning one?
You've lost me. omg.... I have no idea what you said or what your point is other than you're wrong that my mind was made up before posting the thread. Whaaaa.??? It wasn't. But it is now.

Sometimes I wish people could put their thoughts through a keyboard. Some do but many can't. I have no idea what you're trying to tell me.

But once again, no harm. I don't hate you for it.
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