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What is Shimano doing?

Old 02-06-19, 09:04 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
...However, neither Comp Cyclist, Jenson or Excel seem to eg. sell 105 series groups or much in the way of the individual parts. Anyone have insight into why? Tiagra as well.. no dice
Because MAP on a low-end Shimano groupset in the US would be so close to a complete bike with the same parts that nobody would buy it when you can get a whole bike for $100 more.
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Old 02-06-19, 05:15 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Because MAP on a low-end Shimano groupset in the US would be so close to a complete bike with the same parts that nobody would buy it when you can get a whole bike for $100 more.
I'm not following.. If Ultegra can be found at a US e-tailer, presumably selling for the approx. $700 I referred to, and this represents MAP supposedly, then 105 I would think would sell for some amount less than this at MAP, and Tiagra even lower than this. Ie. a complete bike with 105 for $600-700 wouldn't be that terribly common.
Even so.. if you can't buy from the UK, you have to be able to buy it somewhere, don't you?
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Old 02-06-19, 06:12 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I'm not following.. If Ultegra can be found at a US e-tailer, presumably selling for the approx. $700 I referred to, and this represents MAP supposedly, then 105 I would think would sell for some amount less than this at MAP, and Tiagra even lower than this. Ie. a complete bike with 105 for $600-700 wouldn't be that terribly common.
Even so.. if you can't buy from the UK, you have to be able to buy it somewhere, don't you?
If Ultegra is currently selling for $700 in the U.K. and would be a good deal more here because of MAP .... then a bike with Sora would cost as much as an Ultegra group set?

Unless one shops at Bikes Direct, or better still, Bike Island ... if one doesn't care about the frame at all and is just buying the group set a nd maybe a set of training/ride-around wheels, then one could buy a leftover odd-sized frame, a scratch-and-dent 46-cm or something .... and get a great deal on the group set, perhaps.
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Old 02-06-19, 06:17 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
If Ultegra is currently selling for $700 in the U.K. and would be a good deal more here because of MAP .... then a bike with Sora would cost as much as an Ultegra group set?

Unless one shops at Bikes Direct, or better still, Bike Island ... if one doesn't care about the frame at all and is just buying the group set a nd maybe a set of training/ride-around wheels, then one could buy a leftover odd-sized frame, a scratch-and-dent 46-cm or something .... and get a great deal on the group set, perhaps.
No.. Ultegra is currently selling in the US for $700. Have I been speaking greek?
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Old 02-06-19, 06:41 PM
  #130  
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I wonder if Shimano will simply be playing "Whack-a-Mole".

Someone was asking about Ultegra R8000 pedals yesterday. They seem to be about $200 online from most US retailers. And $110 to $120 from China, Taiwan, Japan, and Malaysia.

So, knock out a couple of online retailers, and more will pop up.

Of course, the question was whether the pedals were legit... which I would imagine so, but I presume there are some fake cleats out there.

It is possible this UK battle will just provide the seed for the growth of more competitors.
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Old 02-06-19, 07:17 PM
  #131  
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I'm asking because I don't know the answer, but is what Shimano doing here, any different to what Sram did?


I know when Sram stopped selling online to Australia(amongst other places), I just never bothered to look at their stuff again, rather than buy some of it from a LBS.


Obviously it was easy to do this because I was able to purchase Shimano stuff online.
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Old 02-06-19, 07:54 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Its Shimano USA's efforts to finally close off the flood of cheaper priced products from Europe to the US. They list a price and everyone sells it for that. Pretty simple and its done with products in cycling as well as all sorts of other markets.
The secret sauce.... Shimano USA.
Big Shimano gets their revenue once they settle with each respective authorized distributors, regardless of country. So you would like to think it ends there.

But of course, NOT. They don't like a competition problem when those distributors cross over into others territories VIA those distributors official retailers dumping over.

The consumer today can simply finger around a smart phone and shop the world. How one factors selecting a reputable seller, dealing with shipping and duties is all part of the 'fun'.

Actually, its almost crazy how cheap one can buy a complete BRAND new bike with a group CHEAPER than buying the group separate boxed!

Going with that thought, there are clever Amazon seller's offering brand new Shimano parts, out of package because they buy new bikes and strip them for resale. Brand new takeoff parts! Even right down to the cables, trimmed as they be. Rather brilliant marketeers-~

Last edited by crank_addict; 02-06-19 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 02-06-19, 08:39 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I'm not following.. If Ultegra can be found at a US e-tailer, presumably selling for the approx. $700 I referred to, and this represents MAP supposedly, then 105 I would think would sell for some amount less than this at MAP, and Tiagra even lower than this. Ie. a complete bike with 105 for $600-700 wouldn't be that terribly common.
Even so.. if you can't buy from the UK, you have to be able to buy it somewhere, don't you?
I do not read, speak, or understand Greek. I did read the word "presumably" which indicates that you did not know but assumed that was the sale price.

Apparently $700 for a full group set is a Very good price. (For instance, https://www.coloradocyclist.com/shim...tegra-groupset)

Whatever.
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Old 02-06-19, 09:05 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Yep... Just a few days ago, ProBike Kit followed in not shipping Shimano over here. Ok... now what? I think I have about 5 years of consumables horded, but what happens when this dries up?
you have half a decade of consumables- why are you asking 'what happens when this dries up?' for?
it's a half decade from now...go get more when 2024 hits.

anyone with 5 years of consumables stashed away is in the super minority of cyclists. I would guess .5% of us have half a decade worth of consumables stashed away.
they are, by the term, consumable. Get more and consume them.

there is no reason to plan for how someone can have access to cheap consumables 5 years from now.

also- what consumables are Shimano brand and no longer available to you from overseas? Consumable to me is cables, housing, tape, chains, and brake pads. I could see tires being included too.
none of that needs to be Shimano as there are excellent quality alternatives for the same or less money.
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Old 02-07-19, 04:58 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I do not read, speak, or understand Greek. I did read the word "presumably" which indicates that you did not know but assumed that was the sale price.

Apparently $700 for a full group set is a Very good price. (For instance, https://www.coloradocyclist.com/shim...tegra-groupset)

Whatever.
Yeah, ColoCyclist is about $100 or so more than Jenson or Excel. But it provides anyway another online US example where other lower tier groupsets are not even being offered for sale.
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Old 02-07-19, 05:17 AM
  #136  
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Is it such a surprise ?

Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
The secret sauce.... Shimano USA.
Big Shimano gets their revenue once they settle with each respective authorized distributors, regardless of country. So you would like to think it ends there.

But of course, NOT. They don't like a competition problem when those distributors cross over into others territories VIA those distributors official retailers dumping over.

The consumer today can simply finger around a smart phone and shop the world. How one factors selecting a reputable seller, dealing with shipping and duties is all part of the 'fun'.

Actually, its almost crazy how cheap one can buy a complete BRAND new bike with a group CHEAPER than buying the group separate boxed!

Going with that thought, there are clever Amazon seller's offering brand new Shimano parts, out of package because they buy new bikes and strip them for resale. Brand new takeoff parts! Even right down to the cables, trimmed as they be. Rather brilliant marketeers-~
I'd be amazed if it were otherwise. How much do you think a car (automobile) would cost if you made it from spare parts? At a guess it will be at least twice the price. Same goes for many things, from aircraft to kettles. Remember, also, that much quoted economic truism, you charge what the market will bear.
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Old 02-07-19, 07:25 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I'm not following.. If Ultegra can be found at a US e-tailer, presumably selling for the approx. $700 I referred to, and this represents MAP supposedly, then 105 I would think would sell for some amount less than this at MAP, and Tiagra even lower than this. Ie. a complete bike with 105 for $600-700 wouldn't be that terribly common.
Even so.. if you can't buy from the UK, you have to be able to buy it somewhere, don't you?
I don't know what MAP prices are for Tiagara/105 groups, but I guarantee if you go to your LBS and compare the cost of upgrading the transmission on your Tiagra/105 level bike at MAP prices vs. the net cost of selling your current bike and getting a new complete bike at that level, the new complete bike will be more cost-effective.
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Old 02-07-19, 11:42 AM
  #138  
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Funny that I came across this thread. My wife and I have 2 tandems, one for road and one for mountain. The road one has Claris 3x8 shifters on it and I was looking to upgrade it to Shimano 105 3x10 shifters, cassette,etc... Poking around, I noticed that the older ST-57xx shifters seemed much higher than I had seen before.
Well, now I know why.
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Old 02-07-19, 12:01 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
Funny that I came across this thread. My wife and I have 2 tandems, one for road and one for mountain. The road one has Claris 3x8 shifters on it and I was looking to upgrade it to Shimano 105 3x10 shifters, cassette,etc... Poking around, I noticed that the older ST-57xx shifters seemed much higher than I had seen before.
Well, now I know why.
Whatever you do, donít use Shimano parts for the upgrade.
You will become a disempowered and subservient bot if you buy even one Shimano part.
You should instead get exactly what you need at a lower price from Mom & Pop who should ofc live right down the street from you.
They will also playfully tousle your hair and give you a nice home baked cake to go along with it
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Old 02-11-19, 02:03 PM
  #140  
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Apparently SRAM and Shimano like to shoot themselves in the foot.

If their claim is they are doing it help brick-and-mortar retailers get better margins on aftermarket. Ummm...hello??? Most people shop online. Brick and Mortar is dead for that kind of stuff.

Chainreaction was making money....Shimano/SRAM was making money, and consumers were buying good products at prices they could afford. This strategy isn't a good idea for the end users of their products. All this does is force consumers to pay for an extra layer of shipping, stocking etc. and it won't save the bad shops or move the needle far when it comes to sales at successful shops either.
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Old 02-27-19, 02:08 PM
  #141  
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The shutting down of Shimano sales to North America is having secondary consequences to customers.

So I'm at LBS hunting for cleats. I notice that they have a Campagnolo Veloce cassette that has been sitting in inventory for at least 10 years. Sticker price is $100. Online is less than $50.

So I simply say thanks but no thanks. So the owner fires up the Chain Reaction website and lowers his price expectations to $75. The owner explains that with the shutting down of Shimano and SRAM online sales, the price of all components, including Campagnolo will increase, so I should act quickly on this.

Sigh... increased price pressures all around.
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Old 02-27-19, 02:20 PM
  #142  
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Welcome to Capitalism.

if this was communism, we'd all be sharing Walmart bikes.
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Old 02-27-19, 05:52 PM
  #143  
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"All this does is force consumers to pay for an extra layer of shipping, stocking etc. and it won't save the bad shops or move the needle far when it comes to sales at successful shops either."

That is only the short side of the story. What happens in the long haul is a birth to competition. A space is created for low priced components that will eventually get filled by another manufacturer. I know this first hand as myself and a partner were able to capture a good size of a market with low cost alternatives that worked well. SRAM filled a components void when they started and now look at them. This is the eb and flow of a free market.

Price is not king in my world. I support my local shops because they are my neighbors and I recall when I was broke and living out of a car. My neighbors were there to support me. The guy working out of a mail order warehouse in another state was not there for me, the people in my community were.
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Old 02-27-19, 08:12 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I've stopped buying Shimano until they can come up with a global spare parts pricing strategy that doesn't completely screw Americans.
That's a great stand to take but only if you can get the whole country where you live to stand with you, otherwise one person taking a stand Shimano will just laugh, they're making far far more money raising their prices then the lost of 1 sale, but if you have say 250,000 riders in your country and they all wrote into Shimano saying their boycotting well you might have an effect. Otherwise just do what everyone else is doing and buy Shimano.
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Old 02-27-19, 08:44 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by greatscott View Post
That's a great stand to take but only if you can get the whole country where you live to stand with you, otherwise one person taking a stand Shimano will just laugh, they're making far far more money raising their prices then the lost of 1 sale, but if you have say 250,000 riders in your country and they all wrote into Shimano saying their boycotting well you might have an effect. Otherwise just do what everyone else is doing and buy Shimano.

Clearly many people who currently were purchasing Shimano gear online, will where they can, move to other alternatives.


You don't have to tell Shimano you are going to do this, you can just do it.


It is looking like Australia is going to get caught up in Shimano's decision too, and rather than go to my LBS and pay twice as much as I could have before, I will instead do at least the following:


1. Go from Shimano chains to KMC or Wipperman chains.


2. Go from Shimano disk brakes to Magura or Hope or TRP disk brakes.


3. Go from Shimano cable wiring to Jagwire.


4. Go from Shimano cassettes to Sunrace cassettes.


5. Go from Shimano cranks to Rotor or FSA cranks.


The only items I may be struggling to get a Shimano alternative for are for derailleurs and shifters.


But what I certainly won't be doing is paying twice the price for most items that I use to buy from Shimano.
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Old 02-27-19, 09:54 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by ColonelSanders View Post
Clearly many people who currently were purchasing Shimano gear online, will where they can, move to other alternatives.


You don't have to tell Shimano you are going to do this, you can just do it.


It is looking like Australia is going to get caught up in Shimano's decision too, and rather than go to my LBS and pay twice as much as I could have before, I will instead do at least the following:


1. Go from Shimano chains to KMC or Wipperman chains.


2. Go from Shimano disk brakes to Magura or Hope or TRP disk brakes.


3. Go from Shimano cable wiring to Jagwire.


4. Go from Shimano cassettes to Sunrace cassettes.


5. Go from Shimano cranks to Rotor or FSA cranks.


The only items I may be struggling to get a Shimano alternative for are for derailleurs and shifters.


But what I certainly won't be doing is paying twice the price for most items that I use to buy from Shimano.
These are great RA RA points, but in reality most bikes sold new come with Shimano. If I was a hater of Shimano I would just get a bike with Campy or SRAM on it. But you know darn well that you're looking up a 10,000 foot cliff that's just not going to be scaled by enough people to matter.
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Old 02-27-19, 11:19 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by greatscott View Post
These are great RA RA points, but in reality most bikes sold new come with Shimano. If I was a hater of Shimano I would just get a bike with Campy or SRAM on it. But you know darn well that you're looking up a 10,000 foot cliff that's just not going to be scaled by enough people to matter.
No one here is talking about parts that come on new bikes, in respect of Shimano's actions here.


This is all about buying spare parts from websites like Chainreaction, Bike24 etc.


You don't seem to have grasped what is going on.


If I buy a new bike and it has Shimano parts on it, I am not all of a sudden paying any more than I did before(so I don't care that it comes with Shimano parts), this only applies to buying parts/consumables, which people do all the time.
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Old 02-28-19, 04:40 AM
  #148  
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Go to BikesDirect. Buy the cheapest bike they sell equipped with the parts you like. Swap the parts you have for the parts on the bike you just bought. Sell the new bike with old parts.

Or, join the thousands who made short films of themselves burning up their $200 Nike sneakers. Strip all the Shimano parts off your bike and mash them to powder with a sledgehammer. You will bring laughter to millions.

To really go the extra mile, miss and hit your foot with the hammer once or twice.
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Old 03-01-19, 08:53 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by ColonelSanders View Post
No one here is talking about parts that come on new bikes, in respect of Shimano's actions here.


This is all about buying spare parts from websites like Chainreaction, Bike24 etc.


You don't seem to have grasped what is going on.


If I buy a new bike and it has Shimano parts on it, I am not all of a sudden paying any more than I did before(so I don't care that it comes with Shimano parts), this only applies to buying parts/consumables, which people do all the time.
You don't get the point, most Shimano components, or SRAM and Campy, are sold on new bikes, not so much on replacement parts, and even if you need a replacement part a person isn't going to spend a boatload of money to convert something over to another brand so that whatever is replaced is compatible with the rest so it works flawlessly just so they can put a thumb in Shimano's eye, if that were the case the person trying to do that would simply find a bike that doesn't have Shimano components on it, not that difficult to do.
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Old 03-01-19, 09:17 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by greatscott View Post
You don't get the point...
I don't get your point either.
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