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-   -   What is Shimano doing? (https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1165317-what-shimano-doing.html)

base2 01-30-19 09:02 AM

What is Shimano doing?
 
Does anyone have any idea what Shimano is doing? The cost of their products seems to have increased since last I looked. Since I am in America, & the US dollar has gained strength in the recent years, the cost of foreign made goods should be going down. The strange thing is in the American market, they haven't. They've gone up. An M-785 crankset on Amazon is $250

I purchased an Ultegra crankset from a shop in Portland we all know & love. The shop owner said it wasn't included in the holiday sale because: "Shimano prices are already rock-bottom they will allow us to sell."

I went to CRC & searching by brand leaves Shimano curiously excluded. Searching via the search box returns results for Fulcrum, Campy, & others.

I went to Jenson and searching cranksets, sorting by brand the listing skips Shimano. The listing skips from Rotor to Suntour.

SJS only seems to have Acera, Alivio, Deore, Xt triples. No mountain doubles. No XTR 2-by sets that I could find. Nothing that would compete with their latest offerings or new proprietary 4-bolt spacing.

What am I missing? Carving the world up by region? Enforcing price controls? Taking advantage of the North American consumers increased buying power & ignorance?

Something stinks in Shimanoland.

dedhed 01-30-19 09:11 AM

Shimano no longer lets the UK dealers sell to customers in the US.

There are a number of threads on this.

https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...umor-only.html

dedhed 01-30-19 09:17 AM

https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-XT...000-2-Crankset

tagaproject6 01-30-19 09:34 AM

What is Shimano doing? They are trying to make money. Everything they do stems from that one goal.

base2 01-30-19 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by dedhed (Post 20770971)

Ok, so the "Sort by brand" function isn't alphabetical.

Still, only in black, only proprietary bolt spacing, still very limited selection available.

Thanks for the link, though. I'll keep the substitute in mind if nothing else suitable pops up.

zweitesmal2 01-30-19 10:06 AM

I admit to being a bit ignorant on the inclusions and exclusions of the Trump tariffs but maybe that has something to do with it? My LBS says Ebikes will be affected; I did just buy a 105 R7000 groupset at a very nice price with only a delay on the crank due to back orders.

base2 01-30-19 10:07 AM


Originally Posted by tagaproject6 (Post 20771003)
What is Shimano doing? They are trying to make money. Everything they do stems from that one goal.

Nevertheless 100% of a tiny niche market isn't nearly as good as 50% of a huge global market.

What they are doing seems short-sighted.

Maybe Hope or RaceFace or some other could meet my needs with out boxing the consumer?

fietsbob 01-30-19 10:19 AM

get bigger
 
What would you do if you dominated the market, and wanted to maintain prestige price perceptions ?

best prices are if you order 10,000 for your factory , not , just, one for yourself..

kingston 01-30-19 10:23 AM

I've stopped buying Shimano until they can come up with a global spare parts pricing strategy that doesn't completely screw Americans.

Maelochs 01-30-19 10:48 AM

I'd assume, tariffs. And I'd assume not buying their products is the only meaningful action to take unless you want t to start a thread in Politics and Religion.

mtb_addict 01-30-19 10:53 AM

Okay I've had it...I am boycotting Shimano parts.

BirdsBikeBinocs 01-30-19 11:08 AM

Has anyone else noticed the old 505(5700.?) balloon head brake levers are now the Tiagra brake levers.?? I'm interested in a Trek Checkpoint at the $1700 mark. Tiagra groupset. For that much money I'd much rather have the new 5800 groupset.

Specialized has a carbon Diverge with the new Tiagra groupset.... $2500. So yup, I've noticed Shimano prices have changed.

Trickle down technology costs the consumer a lot of money. But I'll pay through the nose for it. It is good stuff. Don't quote me here but on average the 2019 bike prices have increased by $100. That's sort of what I'm seeing.

tagaproject6 01-30-19 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by base2 (Post 20771054)
Nevertheless 100% of a tiny niche market isn't nearly as good as 50% of a huge global market.

What they are doing seems short-sighted.

Maybe Hope or RaceFace or some other could meet my needs with out boxing the consumer?

True. Out hustle the competition and prevent people from getting a better deal anywhere else and they can pretty much corner the market.

CliffordK 01-30-19 12:12 PM

Companies like "WheelMasters" exist because of bad service by Shimano.

Ok, they might still have made parts for vintage bikes, but they sell a lot of Shimano compatible cones.

Trakhak 01-30-19 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by BirdsBikeBinocs (Post 20771157)
Trickle down technology costs the consumer a lot of money.

Not sure what you're trying to say. Moving features formerly available only in component groups at higher price points to component groups at lower price points costs the consumer a lot of money? How?

livedarklions 01-30-19 12:24 PM

Shimano seems bound and determined to set themselves up for antitrust action either in the U.S. or Europe.

Rollfast 01-30-19 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20771135)
Okay I've had it...I am boycotting Shimano parts.

I don't have that problem, but then again I do have a New Departure rear hub or two in the fleet.

BirdsBikeBinocs 01-30-19 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by Trakhak (Post 20771281)
Not sure what you're trying to say. Moving features formerly available only in component groups at higher price points to component groups at lower price points costs the consumer a lot of money? How?

Not sure what your words are saying but I'll try to reply to it. Kinda mumbo jumbo there... omg, I honestly have no idea what you said. Does this work for you.??....

The new Tiagra groupset is the old 505 groupset from Shimano. Now, Tiagra has a price tag of the old 505. And it's being applied to the 2019 bikes. It costs more to get into a Tiagra groupset.

Look at this 2019 Checkpoint. Notice the brake levers. Thats trickle down from the 505(or the 5700).

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...lorCode=orange

mstateglfr 01-30-19 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by base2 (Post 20771054)
Nevertheless 100% of a tiny niche market isn't nearly as good as 50% of a huge global market.

What they are doing seems short-sighted.

Maybe Hope or RaceFace or some other could meet my needs with out boxing the consumer?

Its Shimano USA's efforts to finally close off the flood of cheaper priced products from Europe to the US. They list a price and everyone sells it for that. Pretty simple and its done with products in cycling as well as all sorts of other markets.

mstateglfr 01-30-19 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20771135)
Okay I've had it...I am boycotting Shimano parts.

you would have to buy Shimano parts first.
Heck, you would have to own a bike first.

mstateglfr 01-30-19 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by BirdsBikeBinocs (Post 20771449)
Not sure what your words are saying but I'll try to reply to it. Kinda mumbo jumbo there... omg, I honestly have no idea what you said. Does this work for you.??....

The new Tiagra groupset is the old 505 groupset from Shimano. Now, Tiagra has a price tag of the old 505. And it's being applied to the 2019 bikes. It costs more to get into a Tiagra groupset.

Look at this 2019 Checkpoint. Notice the brake levers. Thats trickle down from the 505(or the 5700).

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...lorCode=orange

1- New Tiagra(4700) isnt the old 105(5800). It isnt even the old old 105(5700) that is 10sp. 4700 and 5700 are significantly different, actually.
2- And its 105, not 505. I get a mistype, but you typed it 3 different times so I am guessing it wasnt just a mistype.

kingston 01-30-19 02:46 PM


Originally Posted by mstateglfr (Post 20771512)
...its done with products in cycling as well as all sorts of other markets.

Such as? I'd like to know which other product manufacturers charge a wholesale price in the US that's higher than the retail price in Europe for an otherwise identical product, then threaten British retailers so they stop shipping product to American customers. I'll stop buying their products too.

mstateglfr 01-30-19 02:57 PM


Originally Posted by base2 (Post 20770946)
Does anyone have any idea what Shimano is doing? The cost of their products seems to have increased since last I looked. Since I am in America, & the US dollar has gained strength in the recent years, the cost of foreign made goods should be going down. The strange thing is in the American market, they haven't. They've gone up. An M-785 crankset on Amazon is $250

I purchased an Ultegra crankset from a shop in Portland we all know & love. The shop owner said it wasn't included in the holiday sale because: "Shimano prices are already rock-bottom they will allow us to sell."

I went to CRC & searching by brand leaves Shimano curiously excluded. Searching via the search box returns results for Fulcrum, Campy, & others.

I went to Jenson and searching cranksets, sorting by brand the listing skips Shimano. The listing skips from Rotor to Suntour.

SJS only seems to have Acera, Alivio, Deore, Xt triples. No mountain doubles. No XTR 2-by sets that I could find. Nothing that would compete with their latest offerings or new proprietary 4-bolt spacing.

What am I missing? Carving the world up by region? Enforcing price controls? Taking advantage of the North American consumers increased buying power & ignorance?

Something stinks in Shimanoland.

Shimano is simply doing much of what SRAM did a handful of years ago. They are enforcing their pricing in the US better than they have done in years past.
This isnt unique to Shimano or even unique to cycling.

https://www.ebay.com/p/Shimano-XT-M7...7073294&chn=ps 99.2% rating. order now and get it in a month or so. $120 is better than $250.

BirdsBikeBinocs 01-30-19 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by mstateglfr (Post 20771520)
1- New Tiagra(4700) isnt the old 105(5800). It isnt even the old old 105(5700) that is 10sp. 4700 and 5700 are significantly different, actually.
2- And its 105, not 505. I get a mistype, but you typed it 3 different times so I am guessing it wasnt just a mistype.

Thanks for that. How do you describe the big balls on the older 105 that are now present on the 4700 Tiagra.?? The hoods have that "hump" on the inside just like the old 105. They look identical in person.

Oh ya... And here is the 505 that I've mentioned. Which references a 105 groupset. Copied from an online dealer. How do you explain this.??

Front Brake: Shimano BR-RS505 hydraulic disc brakes, 160mm
Rear Brake: Shimano BR-RS505 hydraulic disc brakes, 160mm

These are the hydraulic brakes that are now Tiagra. It may be that this is the first year you can get a Tiagra groupset with hydraulic brakes, though I'm not positive on this.

mstateglfr 01-30-19 03:06 PM


Originally Posted by kingston (Post 20771523)
Such as? I'd like to know which other product manufacturers charge a wholesale price in the US that's higher than the retail price in Europe for an otherwise identical product, then threaten British retailers so they stop shipping product to American customers. I'll stop buying their products too.

Woah woah there. You just added a bunch of specific qualifiers.
I do not for sure know of companies(besides Shimano) that charge wholesale in the US for more than retail in Europe and then threaten British retailers. Thats a pretty specific set of parameters to meet.

I do know of companies in other markets which set pricing for their product(s). And that is what I was referring to in the prior post.


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