Talking shop (bikes) at a mixed group event, a foul up
01-30-19, 03:30 PM
#51
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Well this thread is a hot mess and I dont feel like adding anything helpful since there doesnt seem to be much of a reason.
I will say that im impressed the OP managed to use 'daft' three times in a post. Strong work on using such an uncommon term Stateside!
I will say that im impressed the OP managed to use 'daft' three times in a post. Strong work on using such an uncommon term Stateside!
01-30-19, 03:34 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
I'm trying to find some finality here about a pretty specific thing that happened last year. Trying to learn something and move on.
It's been a point of contention with the wife for some time. No amount of confirmation bias is going to sway her opinion of the matter. I'm just seeking out feedback to make sure I don't screw up future possibilities of trying to build friendships.
If you were at the event and there's the small chance you're on this forum, I apologize in advance if you think you were there. I try to be hospitable to all, but apparently wasn't and appreciate your support in coming out.
For my birthday last year I did a group ride with the local group and had a few of the members over for dinner after the kids were in bed. The BIL, his wife, and my wife were also around. We drank, ate some food, had some cake etc...
When like minded folk get together, they often talk shop. Was it rude for the talking shop to dominate much of the evening?
This kind of thing dealing with a pissed off wife makes you not want to do anything with it after a negative experience.
This year I'd rather eat takeout with the kids and just go ride by my lonesome during the day for my birthday.
This whole bit turned into her calling them crazy people and nutters and saying they can't come over. It's really made me withdraw from the group rides a lot since then.
I would normally file it under the idea that lots of women don't like their husbands having a hobby of hardly any kind. But am trying to be open minded about the bit.
So, I ask:
-Should I totally separate ever having people I know who share a hobby from the people who don't?
-Was it a daft idea for the invite of having a hobby group of folks over to begin with?
-Was this an isolated oversight of excluding people by talking shop at my party the whole time, or was there something more to it than that?
It's just tough to rationalize or balance a view of it simply being a possibly rude one-off occurrence versus an overall hatred for my hobby.
It's difficult to balance a one off thing that had such a violent outburst with the long term being that they don't hate your hobby. They say they don't hate it, and look at you daft for thinking they do, but........having endured such a reaction to the one event sticks with you (or me at least).
After this tongue lashing, cuss fest I pretty much started riding on my own all the time and took my group stickers off my car. They claim this was daft and has nothing to do with the one "rude event", but I can't come to believe that yet.
It's been a point of contention with the wife for some time. No amount of confirmation bias is going to sway her opinion of the matter. I'm just seeking out feedback to make sure I don't screw up future possibilities of trying to build friendships.
If you were at the event and there's the small chance you're on this forum, I apologize in advance if you think you were there. I try to be hospitable to all, but apparently wasn't and appreciate your support in coming out.
For my birthday last year I did a group ride with the local group and had a few of the members over for dinner after the kids were in bed. The BIL, his wife, and my wife were also around. We drank, ate some food, had some cake etc...
When like minded folk get together, they often talk shop. Was it rude for the talking shop to dominate much of the evening?
This kind of thing dealing with a pissed off wife makes you not want to do anything with it after a negative experience.
This year I'd rather eat takeout with the kids and just go ride by my lonesome during the day for my birthday.
This whole bit turned into her calling them crazy people and nutters and saying they can't come over. It's really made me withdraw from the group rides a lot since then.
I would normally file it under the idea that lots of women don't like their husbands having a hobby of hardly any kind. But am trying to be open minded about the bit.
So, I ask:
-Should I totally separate ever having people I know who share a hobby from the people who don't?
-Was it a daft idea for the invite of having a hobby group of folks over to begin with?
-Was this an isolated oversight of excluding people by talking shop at my party the whole time, or was there something more to it than that?
It's just tough to rationalize or balance a view of it simply being a possibly rude one-off occurrence versus an overall hatred for my hobby.
It's difficult to balance a one off thing that had such a violent outburst with the long term being that they don't hate your hobby. They say they don't hate it, and look at you daft for thinking they do, but........having endured such a reaction to the one event sticks with you (or me at least).
After this tongue lashing, cuss fest I pretty much started riding on my own all the time and took my group stickers off my car. They claim this was daft and has nothing to do with the one "rude event", but I can't come to believe that yet.
Suck it up buttercup.
01-30-19, 03:49 PM
#53
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One word: "Boundries." Establish them. Your cycling, your friends are non-negotiable.
You so eloquently wrote: "I don't get drunk and spout off or do weird things." Maybe you should. Tell her she should join you. If she doesn't want to, that's on her.
I had a blow up about a completly miserable hiking experience about 13 years ago. Whining child, slow spouse. Hours driving. Me with the pack being used, useless, & being taken advantage of. I proclaimed: If this is how it's going to be, I want nothing to do with it. I will never go hiking with you again." It became a cancer on the relationship as I stuck to my word. The incident became weaponized as we took pot-shots at eachother over the years. The kid went hiking with Grandma, I went cycling, & the spouse stayed home & stewed.
Boundries. I set them. I explained my position, I explained my sacrafice, I explained how I felt used & manipulated. I explained how my patience had run out with unreasonable expectations. That, that "incident" was never to be brought up again. It was over & she can either accept my position, or not. But it is now & forevermore to never be discussed again. Having cauterized that wound, I explained that if there is to be a continued relationship with me, she has to take an interist in at least something I like. I'm a simple guy. Just one thing. That's all I asked. Just as I tried to take an interest in something she likes. I provided at least a dozen things of hers I made an effort on. Until then, she overlooked every single one...She likes camping. She likes hiking. I like cycling. We now have a tandem all decked out for cycling to the woods & staying overnight. That also means she had to learn to get good at riding a bike. That also meant she had to overcome her fear of being outside. (For brevity: cars, people.) She rides good now, & although I've never gone on a "hike" with her, we have gone on several many, many mile walks together...Some of which happened to be in the woods.
It sounds like your wife is scared & jealous. Cauterize it. Get her included. By supportive & nurturing when she tries. Go to an event she is interested in that you don't care for. Don't rub it in.
Aaron.
Married 18 years.
You so eloquently wrote: "I don't get drunk and spout off or do weird things." Maybe you should. Tell her she should join you. If she doesn't want to, that's on her.
I had a blow up about a completly miserable hiking experience about 13 years ago. Whining child, slow spouse. Hours driving. Me with the pack being used, useless, & being taken advantage of. I proclaimed: If this is how it's going to be, I want nothing to do with it. I will never go hiking with you again." It became a cancer on the relationship as I stuck to my word. The incident became weaponized as we took pot-shots at eachother over the years. The kid went hiking with Grandma, I went cycling, & the spouse stayed home & stewed.
Boundries. I set them. I explained my position, I explained my sacrafice, I explained how I felt used & manipulated. I explained how my patience had run out with unreasonable expectations. That, that "incident" was never to be brought up again. It was over & she can either accept my position, or not. But it is now & forevermore to never be discussed again. Having cauterized that wound, I explained that if there is to be a continued relationship with me, she has to take an interist in at least something I like. I'm a simple guy. Just one thing. That's all I asked. Just as I tried to take an interest in something she likes. I provided at least a dozen things of hers I made an effort on. Until then, she overlooked every single one...She likes camping. She likes hiking. I like cycling. We now have a tandem all decked out for cycling to the woods & staying overnight. That also means she had to learn to get good at riding a bike. That also meant she had to overcome her fear of being outside. (For brevity: cars, people.) She rides good now, & although I've never gone on a "hike" with her, we have gone on several many, many mile walks together...Some of which happened to be in the woods.
It sounds like your wife is scared & jealous. Cauterize it. Get her included. By supportive & nurturing when she tries. Go to an event she is interested in that you don't care for. Don't rub it in.
Aaron.
Married 18 years.
Last edited by base2; 01-30-19 at 04:48 PM.
01-30-19, 03:51 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
Why even bother posting if this is your assumption?
There's no logic is interacting with someone who you feel may be misrepresenting themselves or their situation. It's this kind of wishy-washy nonsense that gets nothing done. Either you take the OP at face value and try to help him or cut straight to the chase, call him a liar and work from there. At least be honest with your own perspective.
I've, as is the correct way to interact with others in a polite society, chosen to believe the OP and understand what little I know as an accurate representation of the incident as it happened. His style of writing, further explanation and other posts seem to indicate he is trying to be as genuine as possible.
"The other perspective" is merely a coward's way of calling someone a liar and has no relevance in conversations such as this.
Seriously, read the posts? What sort of intensely boorish behavior would justify calling your husband's cycling buddies a bunch of nutters and crazy people before banning them from the house? It's nonsense.
There's no logic is interacting with someone who you feel may be misrepresenting themselves or their situation. It's this kind of wishy-washy nonsense that gets nothing done. Either you take the OP at face value and try to help him or cut straight to the chase, call him a liar and work from there. At least be honest with your own perspective.
I've, as is the correct way to interact with others in a polite society, chosen to believe the OP and understand what little I know as an accurate representation of the incident as it happened. His style of writing, further explanation and other posts seem to indicate he is trying to be as genuine as possible.
"The other perspective" is merely a coward's way of calling someone a liar and has no relevance in conversations such as this.
Seriously, read the posts? What sort of intensely boorish behavior would justify calling your husband's cycling buddies a bunch of nutters and crazy people before banning them from the house? It's nonsense.
Way to go off on one sentence taken out of context.
Why assume our judgment about the rightness or wrongness of her actions are of any importance whatsoever?
I'm very clear. The OP needs help, just not from here.
And by the way, he can be both sincere and unreliable. You're messing with someone's personal issues, and you know nothing about him.
Last edited by livedarklions; 01-30-19 at 04:01 PM.
01-30-19, 03:54 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
We did.
I read how, on his birthday, his wife chose to create a serious argument about the most minor social miscue. Something so minor it probably wouldn't have raised an eyebrow for most people.
Literally: On his birthday he had friends over and they talked about his hobby. This led to reading:
How she called his friends "crazy people" and "nutters" and told her husband he was no longer allowed to have those people over again.
How he received a tongue lashing and apparently had to endure a cuss-fest.
For talking about his hobby with friends on his birthday.
Then she watched as he stopped doing group rides, took the stickers off his car and stopped spending time with his friends. His wife has stood silent as his experience in this world has become more lonely and isolated. Driven by her behavior towards him.
This is extremely toxic behavior, from his wife. She created the issue due to her poor behavior and the responsibility to resolve it lies on her shoulders as well.
To the OP, I reiterate; seek help from a professional and know that you have done nothing wrong.
I read how, on his birthday, his wife chose to create a serious argument about the most minor social miscue. Something so minor it probably wouldn't have raised an eyebrow for most people.
Literally: On his birthday he had friends over and they talked about his hobby. This led to reading:
How she called his friends "crazy people" and "nutters" and told her husband he was no longer allowed to have those people over again.
How he received a tongue lashing and apparently had to endure a cuss-fest.
For talking about his hobby with friends on his birthday.
Then she watched as he stopped doing group rides, took the stickers off his car and stopped spending time with his friends. His wife has stood silent as his experience in this world has become more lonely and isolated. Driven by her behavior towards him.
This is extremely toxic behavior, from his wife. She created the issue due to her poor behavior and the responsibility to resolve it lies on her shoulders as well.
To the OP, I reiterate; seek help from a professional and know that you have done nothing wrong.
Sometimes there are nights that are going to be about my wife.
Sometimes there are nights that are going to be about me.
Both of us are mature enough to understand this fact and not resent it.
Generally (except for years like this one where my birthday is on mother's day - no I'm not bitter) my birthday is about me. Unless it involved something like hookers and blow, my wife would never get mad at me for doing something I enjoyed.
I certainly don't think people are crazy for talking about their hobby. Everyone has things they obsess over.
01-30-19, 04:18 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
*
*
*
Any advice or judgments other than "you need to talk to someone (friends, family, wife, counselor) about this" is therefore irresponsible as it is way more likely to do damage than to do good.
*
Frankly, I'm just enough of an armchair shrink to say that OP is describing a lot of symptoms of depression and should get help.
*
*
Any advice or judgments other than "you need to talk to someone (friends, family, wife, counselor) about this" is therefore irresponsible as it is way more likely to do damage than to do good.
*
Frankly, I'm just enough of an armchair shrink to say that OP is describing a lot of symptoms of depression and should get help.
01-30-19, 04:31 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by base2
One word: "Boundries." Establish them.
You so eloquently wrote: "I don't get drunk and spout off or do weird things." Maybe you should. Tell her she should join you. If she doesn't want to, that's on her.
I had a blow up about a completly miserable hiking experience about 13 years ago. Whining child, slow spouse. Hours driving. Me with the pack being used, useless, & being taken advantage of. I proclaimed: If this is how it's going to be, I want nothing to do with it. I will never go hiking with you again." It became a cancer on the relationship as I stuck to my word. The incident became weaponized as we took pot-shots at eachother over the years. The kid went hiking with Grandma, I went cycling, & the spouse stayed home & stewed.
Boundries. I set them. I explained my position, I explained my sacrafice, I explained how I felt used & manipulated. I explained how my patience had run out with unreasonable expectations. That, that "incident" was never to be brought up again. It was over & she can either accept my position, or not. But it is now & forevermore to never be discussed again. Having cauterized that wound, I explained that if there is to be a continued relationship with me, she has to take an interist in at least something I like. I'm a simple guy. Just one thing. That's all I asked. Just as I tried to take an interest in something she likes. I provided at least a dozen things of hers I made an effort on. Until then, she overlooked every single one...She likes camping. She likes hiking. I like cycling. We now have a tandem all decked out for cycling to the woods & staying overnight. That also means she had to learn to get good at riding a bike. That also meant she had to overcome her fear of being outside. (For brevity: cars, people.) She rides good now, & although I've never gone on a "hike" with her, we have gone on several many, many mile walks together...Some of which happened to be in the woods.
It sounds like your wife is scared & jealous. Cauterize it. Get her included. By supportive & nurturing when she tries. Go to an event she is interested in that you don't care for. Don't rub it in.
Aaron.
Married 18 years.
You so eloquently wrote: "I don't get drunk and spout off or do weird things." Maybe you should. Tell her she should join you. If she doesn't want to, that's on her.
I had a blow up about a completly miserable hiking experience about 13 years ago. Whining child, slow spouse. Hours driving. Me with the pack being used, useless, & being taken advantage of. I proclaimed: If this is how it's going to be, I want nothing to do with it. I will never go hiking with you again." It became a cancer on the relationship as I stuck to my word. The incident became weaponized as we took pot-shots at eachother over the years. The kid went hiking with Grandma, I went cycling, & the spouse stayed home & stewed.
Boundries. I set them. I explained my position, I explained my sacrafice, I explained how I felt used & manipulated. I explained how my patience had run out with unreasonable expectations. That, that "incident" was never to be brought up again. It was over & she can either accept my position, or not. But it is now & forevermore to never be discussed again. Having cauterized that wound, I explained that if there is to be a continued relationship with me, she has to take an interist in at least something I like. I'm a simple guy. Just one thing. That's all I asked. Just as I tried to take an interest in something she likes. I provided at least a dozen things of hers I made an effort on. Until then, she overlooked every single one...She likes camping. She likes hiking. I like cycling. We now have a tandem all decked out for cycling to the woods & staying overnight. That also means she had to learn to get good at riding a bike. That also meant she had to overcome her fear of being outside. (For brevity: cars, people.) She rides good now, & although I've never gone on a "hike" with her, we have gone on several many, many mile walks together...Some of which happened to be in the woods.
It sounds like your wife is scared & jealous. Cauterize it. Get her included. By supportive & nurturing when she tries. Go to an event she is interested in that you don't care for. Don't rub it in.
Aaron.
Married 18 years.
01-30-19, 04:58 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Except that “boundries” is not actually a word.
01-30-19, 07:07 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
Seriously, read the posts? What sort of intensely boorish behavior would justify calling your husband's cycling buddies a bunch of nutters and crazy people before banning them from the house? It's nonsense.
It would help explain why she thought her husband's cycling buddies were a bunch of "nutters and crazy people."
01-30-19, 07:39 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Way to go off on one sentence taken out of context.
Why assume our judgment about the rightness or wrongness of her actions are of any importance whatsoever?
I'm very clear. The OP needs help, just not from here.
And by the way, he can be both sincere and unreliable. You're messing with someone's personal issues, and you know nothing about him.
Why assume our judgment about the rightness or wrongness of her actions are of any importance whatsoever?
I'm very clear. The OP needs help, just not from here.
And by the way, he can be both sincere and unreliable. You're messing with someone's personal issues, and you know nothing about him.
They were his personal issues only up until the point he advertised them on the internet. They are now our entertainment.
01-30-19, 08:55 PM
#62
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I had a similar odd occurance late last year at a retirement party for a co-worker. A few of us were standing around talking about target shooting (we go out a few times a year to a range and get in some friendly competition, mostly 22LR loads), and the young 'snowflake' who's in my department reported us under the 'If you hear something, say something' mantra. Needless to say we all got called to a meeting with the H.R. director for a discussion on terrorism, even though its very well known there's a bunch of recreational shooters working in the company. I asked if there would be a company-wide memo coming out on this topic (since there are lots of other firearms owners in the company), and all I got was a stern look of disapproval.
01-30-19, 09:07 PM
#63
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Koyote
Did we read the same original post?
I saw nothing in the post about his wife trying to "destroy" his enjoyment of cycling or drive him away from his peers. She did apparently take exception to OP and his riding pals talking cycling (exclusively, apparently) at a social event which included non-cyclists. I was trying to be a bit diplomatic in my earlier post, but to be clearer: such behavior is boorish.
And claiming that his wife is the one who has to do all of the "heavy lifting" is ridiculous. That attitude will solve very few marital problems, but it will exacerbate almost all of them.
And fyi: I'm not a 'member of the psychological community' (whatever that means), but I have had experience with both a spectacularly bad marriage and a spectacularly great one. The great one has benefitted from a mutual unwillingness to assign unilateral blame and a mutual willingness to do heavy lifting (solve problems).
I saw nothing in the post about his wife trying to "destroy" his enjoyment of cycling or drive him away from his peers. She did apparently take exception to OP and his riding pals talking cycling (exclusively, apparently) at a social event which included non-cyclists. I was trying to be a bit diplomatic in my earlier post, but to be clearer: such behavior is boorish.
And claiming that his wife is the one who has to do all of the "heavy lifting" is ridiculous. That attitude will solve very few marital problems, but it will exacerbate almost all of them.
And fyi: I'm not a 'member of the psychological community' (whatever that means), but I have had experience with both a spectacularly bad marriage and a spectacularly great one. The great one has benefitted from a mutual unwillingness to assign unilateral blame and a mutual willingness to do heavy lifting (solve problems).
01-30-19, 09:34 PM
#64
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All I can say is that it sounds like the OP and his wife need some marriage counseling. Probably a very good idea to look into it, especially if you're still perturbed by something that happened a year ago.
I have a few hobbies and I often go off alone to meetings or such. I also like to go on long bike rides on weekends once in a while. But I also take time for the wife and don't spend all my time on hobbies or bicycle riding, plus I allow her time to pursue her hobby. That's why my yearly bicycling mileage isn't nearly as big as I'd like, if I were single I'd be racking up thousands of miles every year. But since I have a wife & kids, I have to temper it with family time.
I have a few hobbies and I often go off alone to meetings or such. I also like to go on long bike rides on weekends once in a while. But I also take time for the wife and don't spend all my time on hobbies or bicycle riding, plus I allow her time to pursue her hobby. That's why my yearly bicycling mileage isn't nearly as big as I'd like, if I were single I'd be racking up thousands of miles every year. But since I have a wife & kids, I have to temper it with family time.
01-30-19, 09:55 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by Erzulis Boat
Wait........................What?
It's a lot more responsible advice than telling the guy to get a divorce or ratchet up the argument with his wife.
I'm admitting that I am not a qualified mental health person, but if a friend told me that he was cutting off a bunch of friendships and losing enjoyment of something he loves to do, and talking to a bunch of complete strangers on the internet about the state of his marriage, I would be very concerned for him.
01-30-19, 10:17 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by BirdsBikeBinocs
Has his wife ever been wrong.??
01-31-19, 07:05 AM
#68
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I love these sorts of threads.
01-31-19, 08:26 AM
#69
Senior Member
You never want to mix bike friends with nonbike friends. Keep them segregated. Prancing about in lycra on the roadways is where you talk with your bike friends. Nonbike friends you talk baseball and football. Two seperate worlds, never should they meet.
01-31-19, 08:31 AM
#70
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Originally Posted by big chainring
You never want to mix bike friends with nonbike friends. Keep them segregated. Prancing about in lycra on the roadways is where you talk with your bike friends. Nonbike friends you talk baseball and football. Two seperate worlds, never should they meet.
If you consider your bikes friends and are talking to them, you might have other issues.
I know that's not what you meant, but I just couldn't help it.
01-31-19, 08:40 AM
#71
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Maybe some of the cycling buddies' hobby talk came across as jabbering about demonic motorists, "BSO's" and the lowlifes who sell or ride them, fools who don't appreciate the fine people who work or hang out at the LBS, and/or various evil conspiracies against the interests of "Serious Cyclists".
It would help explain why she thought her husband's cycling buddies were a bunch of "nutters and crazy people."
It would help explain why she thought her husband's cycling buddies were a bunch of "nutters and crazy people."
Originally Posted by jon c.
If a man speaks in the forest and his wife is not there to hear him, is he still wrong?
Win.Did I miss it, did the OP mention how long he's been married?
01-31-19, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
Sounds like a classic case of toxic femininity to me. Best wishes for the rest of your life.
01-31-19, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by big chainring
You never want to mix bike friends with nonbike friends. Keep them segregated. Prancing about in lycra on the roadways is where you talk with your bike friends. Nonbike friends you talk baseball and football. Two seperate worlds, never should they meet.
01-31-19, 09:39 AM
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Interesting thread, and the original post did give me pause for concern. I'm no psychologist or qualified counsellor, but I have counseled younger men at their request on many occasions. My wife and I have been married for 36 years and we've raised children to (mentally and spiritually) healthy adulthood.
The original post had some avoiding behavior in it, where the OP used "they" when he could easily have said "she". I'll guess that he wanted to sound reasonable and not laying blame from the outset. He also didn't relate any aspect of what his wife's expectations were for the evening in question, other than: (a) the day fell coincidentally on Mother's day (? from a later post), (b) the original party was family only and then the guest list expanded impromptu, and (c) the wife reacted to his isolation with his cycling friends with strong emotions.
The emotional escalation belies some other part of their interchange that brought on stronger and stronger language. So, there's likely an underlying communication issue.
The subsequent withdrawal from the OP's bicycling friends is not an emotionally strong response on his part.
I agree with the few reasonable posters who encourage the OP and his wife (later) to begin counseling together. They need to work on communication, expectations, and forgiveness at a minimum.
PG
The original post had some avoiding behavior in it, where the OP used "they" when he could easily have said "she". I'll guess that he wanted to sound reasonable and not laying blame from the outset. He also didn't relate any aspect of what his wife's expectations were for the evening in question, other than: (a) the day fell coincidentally on Mother's day (? from a later post), (b) the original party was family only and then the guest list expanded impromptu, and (c) the wife reacted to his isolation with his cycling friends with strong emotions.
The emotional escalation belies some other part of their interchange that brought on stronger and stronger language. So, there's likely an underlying communication issue.
The subsequent withdrawal from the OP's bicycling friends is not an emotionally strong response on his part.
I agree with the few reasonable posters who encourage the OP and his wife (later) to begin counseling together. They need to work on communication, expectations, and forgiveness at a minimum.
PG
Last edited by Phil_gretz; 01-31-19 at 09:41 AM. Reason: clarifying
01-31-19, 09:40 AM
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Some of the more recent posts have been disturbingly sexist.
