Well, I hate to be that guy, but there are no universals. I don't do any kind of warm-ups, just go right into my workout or ride or whatever.

People figure out what works for them by trial and error. The trick is not to hurt yourself on the errors.

There's just certain exercises I won't do because I know they'll hurt me--has nothing to do with whether they'd benefit you.

The more I learn about fitness and nutrition, the more I think that trying to design programs to fit large numbers of people is misguided. We all have different metabolisms, different body characteristics, different interests and different tastes in foods.

I get some pretty great results from what I do, but I wouldn't advocate it to anyone else.

The problem is there's not much way to tell if that's good for you specifically or not until you either get injured or die from old age and we can conclude that it was fine. ;-)

I mostly agree, though per my experience there is a line where you may benefit and you just don't realize it. Though -

I am vehemently against forcing anyone to do exercises they don't want to do, because we are all different, and an exercise that is helpful for one person can be very bad for another. Until we have a machine that can scan you and determine what works and what doesn't I think it's also risky to force people into warmup exercises.

Couldn't agree more.

I think we're in agreement on about 90% of stuff, but I can't help but point out that's true of either doing or not doing literally anything.

Although I don't stretch before or after rides I don't believe it is accurate to state "science" shows it not be effective.
Here is a fairly balanced article with references to several scientific studies. For so many things in life the answer is probably "it depends".
https://trailrunnermag.com/training/...od-or-bad.html

For what?

Going fast - no. Preventing injury in a crash - maybe.

Warming up is necessary, but that is OT.

Stretching not a pre-exercise thing for me, at best pointless for the activity and at worst inviting injury. Like everyone else in High School I was forced to stretch before football practice, track workouts, etc etc but frankly I faked it being more limber than most, and never since. I have found that stretching in general is beneficial, but not specifically in warming up for anything strenuous.

Discussing the specifics of stretching related to a bike ride is one thing,

but poo-pooing the whole concept because some lame study found no benefit is bizarre.

Doing limited range of motion activities, such as sitting and cycling with not much to counter it leads to

a body that is adapted to sitting and cycling, and little else.

That points to a later life hunched over and injury- prone.

Tight muscles and connective tissue can work fine within their limited range of motion,

but beyond that (i.e. bike crash) are more likely to tear.

I find as I get older, my joints tend to float around in their sockets, much like a bag of bones. Especially in my back. And so one having set of muscles back there tensed-up, while another set is relaxed, can cause misalignment, pain, and eventual injury. Stretching can equalize the tension, increase blood flow, and put everything back into alignment, so that after a good night's sleep, and a few joints "popping", I'm as good as new. YMMV.

If you don't feel any benefit from stretching, don't do it, it's probably not helping. I can only assume that some people's joints don't float around in their sockets to the degree that mine do, everyone is a little different. But I know I'd probably be in a wheelchair or on crutches if I went 6 months with no stretching. Or at very least be in a world of severe pain and misaligned joints.

It's probably worth distinguishing sustained stretches, which I'm talking about, with simply "loosening up" which I think everyone does whether they realize it or not.

My doctor recommends stretching before all physical activity.

Where did you get the crazy idea that stretching has anything whatsoever to do with lactate?

150.7 mile ride yesterday and this 68.5yo body enjoyed a little post ride stretch out during a HOT post ride shower.

​​​​​​​That's when to do it!

I don't know anything about all the studies for or against, all I know is that I stretch before and after, the way I see it is that it doesn't hurt anything to stretch so I do it; I don't spend a hour stretching, maybe 5 minutes at the beginning a 5 at the end, nothing fancy.

I see lot of cyclist riding with those embarrassing looking spacers. That immediately tells me that cyclist needs to stretch more. That way cyclist can become more flexible and be more aero and can finally slam that stem.

That immediately tells me you really have no idea what you're talking about. No one serious would claim that dramatic kind of postural change just from stretching.

And really? Embarrassing? Trolling much?

I'm thinking Jv_247 simply forgot the :D after the post.

Maybe, but given some of the wild claims about the benefits of stretching, I don't assume it was a joke.
There may be a language thing here. Although I don't use spacers, if I did, I'd see "embarrassing" as a fighting word. Don't know if the poster meant that implication or just made a poor word choice.
​​​

Do you think gymnasts are just born flexible or do they train their ligaments and muscles to work over a much greater range of motion? Through? Stretching and strengthening exercises.

Lots of bike fitters recommend a stretching protocol to increase flexibility. Especially if one works a job when they sit all day and ride in the evenings. This combination often sees hip flexors and hamstrings shortened, weakened and under tension. Stretching and a non-cycling based warmup can restore flexibility and strength during limited-ROM activity like cycling.

Professionally I've put dozens of riders on the Kit Laughlin stretching protocol as recommended by Steve Hogg. If they follow the routine properly it's not unusual to see their position drop 1"-3" and move forward/backward by 10-30mm. Now, this is not something done right before a ride to get an instant change. It's often done after riders, or otherwise during the day after a non-cycling warmup and results are expected in the mid-term - 3-4 weeks is usual.

Retul also has specific stretching recommendations as does Specialized's program, as did the now-defunct Performance Bike fit program, as does the current REI bike fit program.

Are you posting in this thread because stretching is something you decided to argue about for fun or do you have deep professional or personal experience from which you are creating a position? Because right now reading your posts it seems entirely like the former.

Actually, there's a specific disease that allows the extreme performers to be extremely flexible. Later in life it causes them serious health issues.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/rare-m...ry?id=29054612
"...The secret to his extraordinary flexibility, Smith said, is a rare medical condition called Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS)..."

"If they do it properly" is often an easy way of making excuses for the fact that often it doesn't work. If the program works supposedly it's because of the program, if it doesn't work it's a game of scapegoating the blame elsewhere.

"It's not unusual" is kind of a marketing way of way "this seems to work for 10%-30% of people".

This seems to be a projection of what you're doing, not what the other poster is doing. You've read some online marketing and now making over the top marketing-level claims here.

I've been through a lot of physical therapy unfortunately in the last few years. Our bodies are "use it or lose it" machines in a lot of things regarding strength and flexibility and programs can improve things for a lot of people, but there's a huge number of issues they just cannot fix as well.

Actually...

Do you seriously believe all gymnasts are afflicted with a disease? You are arguing it is impossible to use stretching to improve flexibility?

Are you able to read my entire posts, did you specifically miss this section?

I've been fitting cyclists professionally since 2013. Stretching works to improve flexibility for many many more people than it does not work for. As I stated in my post, I have had upwards of 40+ cyclists run through the Kit Laughlin protocol, after which I lowered their position by 1-3 inches and moved their stem forward 10-30mm while at the same time move their saddle back the same amount. I have follow-ups from 31 of the cyclists that they were happy with the fit after a full season and have seen 18 of those 31 repeatedly as they return for fit adjustments due to aging, injury or other issues.

I also saw cyclists who have no change in flexibility from stretching, become more flexible but do not have the musculature to adapt to a new position, or have other issues that only come to light once we begin moving their working space on the bicycle. As I stated, these are unusual cases and the small minority of cyclists I have worked with.

PaulRivers, what has been your experience using stretching for bicycle fits? What has been your experience using stretching to improve flexibility along a fixed range of motion? Do you have an educational background related to physiology, kinesiology or massage?

I'm posting as someone who doesn't think the OP has anything to do with the sort of stretching a gymnast might do.

And yeah, I would bet money that gymnasts are generally "born" more flexible than average people. Genetics does play a large role in this.

Also, it's nice that people attribute postural changes to the stretching exercises, but that doesn't mean there isn't a huge placebo effect there and they might have been able to get into those positions 3-4 weeks out without the stretches. Nothing in the literature where they've actually studied it shows effects on joints as dramatic as what you're describing.

I'm posting as someone who does a rather large amount of riding in various postures, doesn't do stretching, and isn't missing it at all.

OP's question was essentially "do I have to, and when?" My answer is still that he doesn't have to, but if he likes it, go ahead.

Please share the link(s) to whatever studies you have that show the effects of stretching on cyclist position and flexibility. I haven't looked in a while but last time I did a few years ago the only literature was branded studies from Specialized and a saddle company that escapes me (Fizik?).

I haven't read the whole thread, but just thought I would share this:

I never stretch, and I've never had problems due to not stretching.

I sometimes do take it easy for a first few minutes of riding. But I usually don't even think about it.

I agree with only stretching warm muscles.

Fortunately mine are always close to 99 degrees. So I stretch them whenever I like.

Like right now. I just stretched. Feels good, man.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b6ede1ecf1.jpg

Feels Goodman.


When I'm dead I'll stop. It's pointless and dangerous to stretch cold muscles.

Sad that we now have one more divisive topic around here to feud about, "stretchers vs. stretching scoffers and skeptics". Just what we need.