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Observations on Weight Loss

Old 03-15-19, 11:36 AM
  #251  
Lemond1985
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Your post is hateful to skin cancer patients, blind people, deaf people, AND overweight people.
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Old 03-15-19, 12:09 PM
  #252  
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I finally gave up and read this entire thread. It piqued my interest because I have been on a weight loss "program" for the past couple months and have had some minor success (and a few insights). Most of the posts here have been pretty informative - based on one sort of plan or another, rooted in personal experiences, and scientific based studies. The posts that haven't been helpful are the seemingly self-righteous ones that tend to not serve the OP's general observations - they sorta come off like this:




One of the things that is obvious is that each of us is pretty different in the way we ride our bikes, the types of lives we live, how we view ourselves, and what our goals might be. That is why I tend to side with the early posts that stress the individual nature of tackling diet and weight loss. One of the areas that hasn't been discussed very thoroughly is the mental and emotional aspect of losing weight. Even if one's entire environment is set up to lose weight, it still is going to be dependent on whether one finally takes the steps to overcome themselves to start the process. In other words, for many of us, the greater struggle is more psychological than physical - we won't or can't begin losing weight until the brain is ready to let us. Yes, there are many who are wired to take control of their immediate existence with little psychological pushback, but there are also those who have some fairly deep-rooted issues or characteristics that preclude losing weight on demand. A few examples of the roadblocks include:
  • Socialization - how we were raised, expectations of family
  • Genetic predispositions - obesity levels in family - high cholesterol levels - high blood pressure
  • Self-esteem - how one views themselves
  • Addiction/compensation - psychological need for something or substitution for that need
  • Denial - just plain stuffing the idea that there is a problem
I'm sure there are many others that fall into this sort of area, but these are some of the obvious ones. I just want to stress that for many, weight loss has little to do with diet plans, workout regimens, or physical environment. For many of us, it is solely based on our emotional and psychological state of being. It takes many different types of nudges to get us to start the process.

As with most of you, I can only speak for myself, but the biggest hurdle was emotionally coming to grips with some health issues. I am 71 years old, weighed 253 lbs two months ago, stand 6'0", and ride about 1500 miles a year. I suffer from high blood pressure, take blood thinner medication for a pulmonary embolism, and beyond all that, am relatively healthy and strong. I quit smoking in 1987 (when I weighed about 190 lbs), and within a half year, I was at 230 after substituting food for cigarettes. As I aged, I added weight - even as I became more active and conscious of my weight. My family has had weight and addiction issues for as long as I can remember, so I really never had early modeling in positive dietary control. Fortunately, because of my age, perhaps psychological maturing (and that's relative), and the old person threat of diabetes, something finally clicked for me a couple months ago. My very supportive wife and family got me to a dietician who set up some very simple, non-scientific guidelines for eating differently. My "plan" is similar to what many of you have described, and it is also the opposite of what many others of you have espoused. The point is that it is working for me to the extent I've lost about 21 lbs in two months (and counting). But none of this would have happened if I hadn't resolved 70 years of my emotional and psychological relationship with food. This would not have happened a year ago. It took a psychological reconciliation for me to get to where most of you are already.

Here in Minnesota, I don't have the opportunity to ride year-round (my doctor made me sell my mountain bike because I tend to crash on it, and he doesn't want me to bleed out due to the blood thinners). So, I'm really looking forward to getting back on the bike and seeing how my continuing weight loss is affected by riding - I can't believe that it won't help. I also am hoping that I have turned the corner on some of the things that seemed to keep me from doing this earlier. We'll see!
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Old 03-15-19, 12:27 PM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by ddeand View Post
Here in Minnesota, I don't have the opportunity to ride year-round (my doctor made me sell my mountain bike because I tend to crash on it, and he doesn't want me to bleed out due to the blood thinners). So, I'm really looking forward to getting back on the bike and seeing how my continuing weight loss is affected by riding - I can't believe that it won't help. I also am hoping that I have turned the corner on some of the things that seemed to keep me from doing this earlier. We'll see!
1 nice to see that you see the addiction side of it. that is a huge first step towards a goal.

2. riding will help, so much as that you don't over do the riding, and then eat big after the ride.
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Old 03-15-19, 12:33 PM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Your post is hateful to skin cancer patients, blind people, deaf people, AND overweight people.

Touché
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Old 03-15-19, 01:42 PM
  #255  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Sadly, this post would be considered "fat shaming" to some. Oh well, facts can be really hurtful sometimes, but it's one of the pitfalls of engaging in victimology, with regard to people's expectations about how much they think they need to eat, vs. how much they "should" weigh as a result.

Human biology can be so unfair!

You'll notice I have never used the phrase "fat shaming" once. The problem with the yelling "self control" strategy is it just doesn't get the reality of the issue, and it doesn't really seem to be designed to do anything other than raise the smugness level of the person yelling it. Of course it's about self-control, but anyone who thinks rational self-control is really a strong suit when it comes to human behavior isn't paying attention.


At a very simplistic level, large weight loss is "eat less, do more", but the reality is that there's nothing simple about actually applying that. I had to totally rethink my attitudes towards food and activity to get to this point. It requires absolute dedication to the point where people will definitely accuse you of having some sort of unhealthy obsession with it. Half of the battle for me has been learning not to listen to well-intentioned people who don't know what the hell they're talking about but think they've got some sort of special insight.

Fat people don't want to listen to you on the subject because you are literally telling them nothing they don't already know. You're like the wanna-be baseball coach telling everyone that the way to win the game is to score more runs than the other team. When it comes to how to do that, the only advice you're giving them is the equivalent of "you've got to want it more than the other guys." Absolutely useless platitudes.

If it was all that simple, there wouldn't be fat people. I used to be one. It truly sucks. I have to work like hell not to become one again. I'm not "playing victim" when I tell you you don't know what you're talking about. I'm just stating something that's obvious to anyone who's dealt with it.
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Old 03-15-19, 02:02 PM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Not incorrect. It may not be as scientifically stated as it could be, but it is essentially true. Carbs are the least satiating of the macro nutrients so you will typically overeat. And again, carbs illicit the greatest insulin response, which cause your body to store more fat.

Try the test yourself. I went from a pot belly to a flat waist just by manipulating carbs.
FWIW I'm back to 150 since my post earlier in this thread, and the main change has been cutting out a couple of slices of bread (+after lunch pastry) and more restrained consumption of my favorite ale. Probably the carbs, IMO.
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Old 03-15-19, 02:07 PM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by ddeand View Post
I finally gave up and read this entire thread. It piqued my interest because I have been on a weight loss "program" for the past couple months and have had some minor success (and a few insights). Most of the posts here have been pretty informative - based on one sort of plan or another, rooted in personal experiences, and scientific based studies. The posts that haven't been helpful are the seemingly self-righteous ones that tend to not serve the OP's general observations - they sorta come off like this:




One of the things that is obvious is that each of us is pretty different in the way we ride our bikes, the types of lives we live, how we view ourselves, and what our goals might be. That is why I tend to side with the early posts that stress the individual nature of tackling diet and weight loss. One of the areas that hasn't been discussed very thoroughly is the mental and emotional aspect of losing weight. Even if one's entire environment is set up to lose weight, it still is going to be dependent on whether one finally takes the steps to overcome themselves to start the process. In other words, for many of us, the greater struggle is more psychological than physical - we won't or can't begin losing weight until the brain is ready to let us. Yes, there are many who are wired to take control of their immediate existence with little psychological pushback, but there are also those who have some fairly deep-rooted issues or characteristics that preclude losing weight on demand. A few examples of the roadblocks include:
  • Socialization - how we were raised, expectations of family
  • Genetic predispositions - obesity levels in family - high cholesterol levels - high blood pressure
  • Self-esteem - how one views themselves
  • Addiction/compensation - psychological need for something or substitution for that need
  • Denial - just plain stuffing the idea that there is a problem
I'm sure there are many others that fall into this sort of area, but these are some of the obvious ones. I just want to stress that for many, weight loss has little to do with diet plans, workout regimens, or physical environment. For many of us, it is solely based on our emotional and psychological state of being. It takes many different types of nudges to get us to start the process.

As with most of you, I can only speak for myself, but the biggest hurdle was emotionally coming to grips with some health issues. I am 71 years old, weighed 253 lbs two months ago, stand 6'0", and ride about 1500 miles a year. I suffer from high blood pressure, take blood thinner medication for a pulmonary embolism, and beyond all that, am relatively healthy and strong. I quit smoking in 1987 (when I weighed about 190 lbs), and within a half year, I was at 230 after substituting food for cigarettes. As I aged, I added weight - even as I became more active and conscious of my weight. My family has had weight and addiction issues for as long as I can remember, so I really never had early modeling in positive dietary control. Fortunately, because of my age, perhaps psychological maturing (and that's relative), and the old person threat of diabetes, something finally clicked for me a couple months ago. My very supportive wife and family got me to a dietician who set up some very simple, non-scientific guidelines for eating differently. My "plan" is similar to what many of you have described, and it is also the opposite of what many others of you have espoused. The point is that it is working for me to the extent I've lost about 21 lbs in two months (and counting). But none of this would have happened if I hadn't resolved 70 years of my emotional and psychological relationship with food. This would not have happened a year ago. It took a psychological reconciliation for me to get to where most of you are already.

Here in Minnesota, I don't have the opportunity to ride year-round (my doctor made me sell my mountain bike because I tend to crash on it, and he doesn't want me to bleed out due to the blood thinners). So, I'm really looking forward to getting back on the bike and seeing how my continuing weight loss is affected by riding - I can't believe that it won't help. I also am hoping that I have turned the corner on some of the things that seemed to keep me from doing this earlier. We'll see!

Really well said! You're losing weight at about the same rate I took mine off over a couple years. I found that the steady 3 pounds or so a week was something I could sustain without too much misery, plus I could keep making minor adjustments down in calories as I went down in weight (your calorie needs drop as you carry less weight--it's one of the reasons people plateau).

I grew up in Minneapolis and I hate winter sports--the climate used to make me do a yearly weight cycle. My winter routine now is almost daily trips to the gym.

You probably get that I don't like to throw out advice much, but I'll go this far--the thing I'd worry about at your age is doing anything that encourages muscle and bone loss, so you might want to work with your doctor or someone on a year-round fitness plan. As I'm sure you know, biking is not good for preserving calcium in bones, so you might need to supplement it even in the summer.

The one thing I definitely don't miss about Minnesota--gnats! Man, I ate a lot of bugs growing up there. Definitely not my favorite protein.
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Old 03-15-19, 02:14 PM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
FWIW I'm back to 150 since my post earlier in this thread, and the main change has been cutting out a couple of slices of bread (+after lunch pastry) and more restrained consumption of my favorite ale. Probably the carbs, IMO.

I went on a popcorn kick a few years ago, and I was losing weight for a while, then I noticed how easily I was adding a few kernels more to my evening bowl, and for some reason I stopped losing weight. I don't eat popcorn anymore.

Carbs are sneaky, it's just too easy to do a gradual ramp up of them. The only non-carb I have the same issue with is nuts.
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Old 03-15-19, 02:43 PM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
You probably get that I don't like to throw out advice much, but I'll go this far--the thing I'd worry about at your age is doing anything that encourages muscle and bone loss, so you might want to work with your doctor or someone on a year-round fitness plan. As I'm sure you know, biking is not good for preserving calcium in bones, so you might need to supplement it even in the summer.
I definitely am aware of the muscle mass conundrum - at this age,it’s inevitable and a subtle reminder of mortality. Biking is not my only activity - I am a skier, fly fisherman (lots of hiking), golfer (more walking), and I spend time at the YMCA in the winter. While not as strong as I once was, I think I’m holding my own. My doctor has been quite supportive and monitors me pretty closely. Thanks for the reponse!
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Old 03-15-19, 02:47 PM
  #260  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
You'll notice I have never used the phrase "fat shaming" once. The problem with the yelling "self control" strategy is it just doesn't get the reality of the issue, and it doesn't really seem to be designed to do anything other than raise the smugness level of the person yelling it. Of course it's about self-control, but anyone who thinks rational self-control is really a strong suit when it comes to human behavior isn't paying attention.


At a very simplistic level, large weight loss is "eat less, do more", but the reality is that there's nothing simple about actually applying that. I had to totally rethink my attitudes towards food and activity to get to this point. It requires absolute dedication to the point where people will definitely accuse you of having some sort of unhealthy obsession with it. Half of the battle for me has been learning not to listen to well-intentioned people who don't know what the hell they're talking about but think they've got some sort of special insight.

Fat people don't want to listen to you on the subject because you are literally telling them nothing they don't already know. You're like the wanna-be baseball coach telling everyone that the way to win the game is to score more runs than the other team. When it comes to how to do that, the only advice you're giving them is the equivalent of "you've got to want it more than the other guys." Absolutely useless platitudes.

If it was all that simple, there wouldn't be fat people. I used to be one. It truly sucks. I have to work like hell not to become one again. I'm not "playing victim" when I tell you you don't know what you're talking about. I'm just stating something that's obvious to anyone who's dealt with it.
I've never struggled with weight, but I have a couple of friends who, like you, have managed to lose a very significant amount of weight and keep it off for several years (and counting). They have both told me essentially exactly what you say here.
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Old 03-15-19, 02:55 PM
  #261  
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If it was all that simple, there wouldn't be fat people. I used to be one. It truly sucks. I have to work like hell not to become one again. I'm not "playing victim" when I tell you you don't know what you're talking about. I'm just stating something that's obvious to anyone who's dealt with it.
I've dropped 50 lbs in the past 5 years, yet I don't know what I'm talking about. If it works for you to think that, and especially if it helps keep the peace around here, then so be it. I've been called much worse than ignorant. Call me whatever you want for the next 24 hours, you have my permission.
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Old 03-15-19, 04:27 PM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post

as for heart health 15 minutes of HIIT daily is enough. No reason to bicycle for hours to lose weight.
HIIT is overrated, misunderstood, misused and unsustainable if done daily long term...1-2 high intensity sessions per week is plenty enough. Majority of physical activity or exercise should be lower intensity aerobic exercise...Most people lack a strong aerobic base and It's pointless to do HIIT without first building a strong aerobic base.. and the only way to build a strong aerobic base is through a longer duration lower intensity exercise.
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Old 03-15-19, 06:14 PM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
I've dropped 50 lbs in the past 5 years, yet I don't know what I'm talking about. If it works for you to think that, and especially if it helps keep the peace around here, then so be it. I've been called much worse than ignorant. Call me whatever you want for the next 24 hours, you have my permission.
Well, mazel tov. I've lost 140 in the same period. Meantime, you're high-fiving a guy who claims that age and genetics have nothing to do with weight control, and claims that thinking they do is playing victim.

If you aren't ignorant on the subject, you're doing a good job imitating it.

One of the biggest problems in this area is people who figure out something that works for them talking other people into believing that it will therefore work for everyone.
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Old 03-15-19, 06:26 PM
  #264  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
yeah lack of self control is a HUGE problem, and it really isn't complicated either.


It is as simple as stop eating! Just because your brain tells you to eat doesn't mean you need to eat. See self-control. Do some fasting, break the food addiction, and THEN you will UNDERSTAND.

as for heart health 15 minutes of HIIT daily is enough. No reason to bicycle for hours to lose weight......... Just stop eating so much.

​​​​​​15 minutes daily of any exercise isn't going to do much for me, thanks.

I understand what works for me a lot better than you do. I love doing a lot of biking, and I like weighing much less and eating way more than I did before I started doing it again. I go places and do stuff on my bike, and I do enough of it that I can enjoy some foods that would put pounds on me otherwise.

And HIIT is boring, and unnecessarily unpleasant. It's one of those magical things that are supposed to work for everyone, and barely work for anyone.
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Old 03-15-19, 07:56 PM
  #265  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
as for heart health 15 minutes of HIIT daily is enough. No reason to bicycle for hours to lose weight......... Just stop eating so much.
No ...

This is quite informative ...

https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...t-orangetheory

And if I'm not mistaken, if a person is doing real HIIT, the recommendation is to do it maybe 3 times a week and do less intense activity the rest of the week.
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Old 03-15-19, 08:39 PM
  #266  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
​​​​​​I go places and do stuff on my bike, and I do enough of it that I can enjoy some foods that would put pounds on me otherwise.

And HIIT is boring, and unnecessarily unpleasant.
well well, thank you for summing every point I have been trying to make!

people eat for pleasure, all the while not doing what's good for them because it's unpleasant.

address those 2 issues, and your life will change DRAMATICALLY for the better. All it takes to change is "self discipline".
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Old 03-15-19, 08:49 PM
  #267  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
The two posters you are responding are notorious for spamming threads non-stop.


It's part of the eat more, but weigh less plan. Exercise the fingers, fat fingers be gone!
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Old 03-15-19, 09:34 PM
  #268  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
well well, thank you for summing every point I have been trying to make!

people eat for pleasure, all the while not doing what's good for them because it's unpleasant.

address those 2 issues, and your life will change DRAMATICALLY for the better. All it takes to change is "self discipline".
Why would I do that? I'm in pretty great shape, and I actually enjoy it.
I'm quite sure my life would drastically be worse if I listened to you, and I'd be in much worse shape.

You're committing what I call the penance fallacy -- you assume that if it's pleasant, it must be bad for you, and if it hurts, it must be healthy.
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Old 03-15-19, 09:41 PM
  #269  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post

You're committing what I call the penance fallacy -- you assume that if it's pleasant, it must be bad for you, and if it hurts, it must be healthy.
I am not assuming nothing, I am calling food addiction, addiction.

In some cases food addiction is a fact, or the 140+ pound loss wouldn't have been necessary.

It's like a smoker that smokes 2 packs a day, then restricts it to 2 cigarettes a day and calls his addiction broken. uh no.

Or a smoker that quits, and then decides that he can smoke one cigarette if he rides a bicycle for 1 hour, to counter balance the smoking.

Exercise is for fitness, not weight loss. Diet is your weight loss!

The simple fact that you are arguing, for the purpose of pleasure eating, (Justification of) is all I need to know.
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Old 03-15-19, 10:01 PM
  #270  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
I am not assuming nothing, I am calling food addiction, addiction.

In some cases food addiction is a fact, or the 140+ pound loss wouldn't have been necessary.

It's like a smoker that smokes 2 packs a day, then restricts it to 2 cigarettes a day and calls his addiction broken. uh no.

Or a smoker that quits, and then decides that he can smoke one cigarette if he rides a bicycle for 1 hour, to counter balance the smoking.

Exercise is for fitness, not weight loss. Diet is your weight loss!

The simple fact that you are arguing, for the purpose of pleasure eating, (Justification of) is all I need to know.
See, where you're going off the deep end is when you assume I'm eating too much. I got plateaued at about 40 pounds overweight taking in fewer than 2000 calories per day. I then started working out a few years ago, gradually increasing, and then doing some serious endurance riding. I now eat a few more calories, but weigh about 40 pounds less. I carry some decent looking muscle, and I don't have to freak out if I want to eat the occasional sub.

We don't have the same metabolism, your regimen wouldn't do me any good, and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

And the smoking analogy is really stupid. Quitting food entirely is its own disorder, and it will kill you. Quitting smoking entirely is the goal. Yes, I am aware that I was addicted to overeating, but I don't intend to become anorexic, thank you.

Now go eat your kibble or whatever unpleasant food you think signals your virtue.
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Old 03-15-19, 10:15 PM
  #271  
Metieval
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
We don't have the same metabolism, your regimen wouldn't do me any good, and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
duh, because I increase my metabolism via fasting and intermittent fasting.

Pick one of the following

1, food addiction
or
2, higher metabolism
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Old 03-15-19, 10:53 PM
  #272  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
duh, because I increase my metabolism via fasting and intermittent fasting.

Pick one of the following

1, food addiction
or
2, higher metabolism
And I increase mine by working out. It's the strategy that works best for me. Addiction would require that I be suffering bad effects from my use of food, not that I derive some pleasure from the food I eat.

​​​​​​At this point, I think you probably are anorexic, and I am going to end my interaction with you. If you had just said "intermittent fasting" , I wouldn't think that, but you appear to engage in alternating fasting and intermittent fasting. I'm not sure how one goes about doing that, but you clearly have some pretty serious issues, and I hope you get help. And just to be clear, I am not being sarcastic, I really think you have a problem, and I would feel bad if I continue with this. I've known people who have gotten very sick doing things like you describe, and I can't imagine that doing intense intervals during an extended fast can be anything but dangerous.

Please be well. I mean it.
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Old 03-16-19, 06:58 AM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post

Exercise is for fitness, not weight loss. Diet is your weight loss!
Exercise has a lot to do with fat-loss....Exercise boosts your metabolism and burns more calories while exercising and while at rest.
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Old 03-16-19, 07:17 AM
  #274  
Lemond1985
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Now go eat your kibble or whatever unpleasant food you think signals your virtue.
I think I just found myself a new sig. TYFT.
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Old 03-16-19, 09:04 AM
  #275  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
If by "myth" you mean "physics" ... then yes!

Calories in vs calories out is basic physics. It simply makes sense.
Yes, the law of thermodynamics makes sense, but it's 75% of the weight loss equation. Those who are insulin resistant or suffer from chronic inflammation find that the other 25% is where big changes can occur in overall health and weight loss. After all, we are not french ovens; it is a bit more complicated than raising the temperature of a gram of water (calorie).
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