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Observations on Weight Loss

Old 03-05-19, 09:32 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Weather may also just affect fluid balance. Water fluctuations in the body can change your body weight by several pounds during the course of a normal day.

Lots of things can affect fluid.

Where you are in your cycle.
Hot days
Sunburn
Flights
Travel in general where you sit a lot
Salt consumption
Exercise

But that has nothing to do with weight gain and loss. It can appear like it has something to do with it, but it just clouds the issue.

The way you can tell if it is real weight gain or loss is to wait 3 days.

Exercise a lot ... gain a bit of weight ... wait 3 days ... spend the day making tracks to the toilet ... weigh yourself the next day, and that's your weight.

Substitute exercise in the sentence above with any of the other options ...

Fly to Canada ... gain a bit of weight ... wait 3 days ... etc.
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Old 03-05-19, 09:34 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Sojodave View Post
Calories in vs calories out is a myth
If by "myth" you mean "physics" ... then yes!

Calories in vs calories out is basic physics. It simply makes sense.
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Old 03-06-19, 12:22 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Sojodave View Post
Calories in vs calories out is a myth and it doesn't work. I lost 50 lbs without exercise and did it by eating less than 20 carbs a day. I took up biking after I lost my weight. I've been eating low carb for four years and I've done up to 140 mile rides without problems.
So true. Part of the problem with carbs is eating them just makes you hungrier so you eat more. If you consume protein and fat you will feel satisfied and will not overeat. Carbs
raise the insulin level in your blood, this makes you hungrier and also causes fat cells to be deposited. Eat more fat and protein cut down or eliminate carbs. That is the only way to go.
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Old 03-06-19, 07:33 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
So true. Part of the problem with carbs is eating them just makes you hungrier so you eat more. If you consume protein and fat you will feel satisfied and will not overeat. Carbs
raise the insulin level in your blood, this makes you hungrier and also causes fat cells to be deposited. Eat more fat and protein cut down or eliminate carbs. That is the only way to go.
Again: No. Just... No.
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Old 03-06-19, 07:59 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Sojodave View Post
Calories in vs calories out is a myth and it doesn't work. I lost 50 lbs without exercise and did it by eating less than 20 carbs a day. I took up biking after I lost my weight. I've been eating low carb for four years and I've done up to 140 mile rides without problems.
Guess what happened when you reduced your carbs? Just guess. Come on. Yup, you reduced your caloric intake!! It really is that simple.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:11 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Weather may also just affect fluid balance. Water fluctuations in the body can change your body weight by several pounds during the course of a normal day.
I notice that people acclimated to hot climates (over thousands of generations) tend to be rail-thin. I believe that excess weight hinders the body's natural cooling processes, while being thin seems to aid them. Remember that each pound of fat contains miles of capillaries. Surely 30-40 lbs of extra weight would significantly tax the heart during periods of extreme heat when the body is trying to cool itself.

I know that during times I've been overweight, the heat bothered me far more than when I was thin. While there are advantages to being overweight in extreme cold climates (insulation, stored energy if food runs out) being overweight in hot weather can actually become dangerous during intense exercise because the body has to work much harder not to overheat.

If you don't believe me, go out on the hottest day of the year and observe fat people and how well they tolerate the heat.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:19 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Again: No. Just... No.
Don't you just love it when the preachy say "There is only one way to do something, and that way is the way that worked for me."? It's like an alcoholic saying "The only way to stop drinking is to become a Friend of Bill like I did. If you don't follow my path, you will ultimately fail." You could line up 10,000 people who quit by other means and the preacher would believe they will ultimately fail because they did not follow his path.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:19 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
So true. Part of the problem with carbs is eating them just makes you hungrier so you eat more. If you consume protein and fat you will feel satisfied and will not overeat. Carbs
raise the insulin level in your blood, this makes you hungrier and also causes fat cells to be deposited. Eat more fat and protein cut down or eliminate carbs. That is the only way to go.
Any diet plan that says it's ok to eat a pound (or two?) of bacon a day, but won't allow you to touch a potato is suspect health wise in my book.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:20 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Guess what happened when you reduced your carbs? Just guess. Come on. Yup, you reduced your caloric intake!! It really is that simple.
+1. The laws of thermodynamics can be tough to accept for some.

Worth repeating:


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Old 03-06-19, 08:46 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by BonkonFleet View Post
So, I should eat less to lose weight ?
No. Feel free to eat as much lettuce and celery as you want.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:47 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Guess what happened when you reduced your carbs? Just guess. Come on. Yup, you reduced your caloric intake!! It really is that simple.
Yes, as the picture posted throughout this thread says, all diets cause you to reduce weight by reducing the number of calories you consume. Really, every fancy diet strategy is just a way to make you feel less hungry while you're eating fewer calories. Which one works best seems to be a matter of personal preference.

I remember a great quote from Jim Wendler, who's a smart guy that manages to present his message in a very blue collar fasion. He basically said this about his weight loss strategy:

Well, there's the zone, paleo, vegan, IF, IIFYM, nutrient timing, gluten free, (OBoile: plus a whole lot more trendy diets that I'm forgetting), but I'm not smart enough to do any of that. I find that when I want to lose weight, I just eat less and it seems to work for me.

Last edited by OBoile; 03-06-19 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:50 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Sojodave View Post
Calories in vs calories out is a myth and it doesn't work. I lost 50 lbs without exercise and did it by eating less than 20 carbs a day. I took up biking after I lost my weight. I've been eating low carb for four years and I've done up to 140 mile rides without problems.
Yes. Thermodynamics aside, the many changes in metabolism that go along with calorie restriction makes that equation overly simplistic and not generally reflective of a rational weight loss process.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:52 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
Yes. Thermodynamics aside, the many changes in metabolism that go along with calorie restriction makes that equation overly simplistic and not generally reflective of a rational weight loss process.
Again, no. Your metabolism doesn't change all that much.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:58 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Again, no. Your metabolism doesn't change all that much.
Yes, it does.
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Old 03-06-19, 09:35 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
Yes, it does.
Science says otherwise. But you go on believing what your guru told you.
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Old 03-06-19, 12:04 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
No. Feel free to eat as much lettuce and celery as you want.
And cucumbers and strawberries too.
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Old 03-06-19, 12:25 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Don't you just love it when the preachy say "There is only one way to do something, and that way is the way that worked for me."? It's like an alcoholic saying "The only way to stop drinking is to become a Friend of Bill like I did. If you don't follow my path, you will ultimately fail." You could line up 10,000 people who quit by other means and the preacher would believe they will ultimately fail because they did not follow his path.
Or they befriended Bill by another name.
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Old 03-06-19, 12:33 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Lots of things can affect fluid.

Where you are in your cycle.
Hot days
Sunburn
Flights
Travel in general where you sit a lot
Salt consumption
Exercise

But that has nothing to do with weight gain and loss. It can appear like it has something to do with it, but it just clouds the issue.

The way you can tell if it is real weight gain or loss is to wait 3 days.

Exercise a lot ... gain a bit of weight ... wait 3 days ... spend the day making tracks to the toilet ... weigh yourself the next day, and that's your weight.

Substitute exercise in the sentence above with any of the other options ...

Fly to Canada ... gain a bit of weight ... wait 3 days ... etc.

I think it's actually worse than that in terms of fluctuation--people regularly vary several pounds during the course of a normal day. If I weigh myself two days in a row, it just isn't unusual for there to be 3 pounds difference either way.

I was specifically addressing someone's sense that they lose more weight biking in heat than cooler days, and I think that if that's true, the most likely reasons would probably be water loss and/or sodium loss through sweat.

Our body weight averages about 55-60% water, assuming we're not obese or malnourished, and it's a far higher proportion than any other single component. Obviously, relatively minor fluctuations in our water "content" are going to swamp other weight factors in the short term. "Real" weight loss, i.e., less fat, really isn't something that can be reliably measured in the short term.

When I am watching my weight, I weigh myself at the same time every day, and I watch for patterns lasting several days. I factor out the anomalously high or low readings in the sequences--as you suggest, there are just too many things that can affect water weight for me to know why any such fluctuation occurred, but either high or low, those fluctuations are usually gone by the next day. .
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Old 03-06-19, 06:47 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
Yes. Thermodynamics aside, the many changes in metabolism that go along with calorie restriction makes that equation overly simplistic and not generally reflective of a rational weight loss process.
Maybe if you starve yourself or try to run a 1500 Cal/day deficit your metabolism will change but if your goal is to lose 1lb/wk or and you honestly keep track of your calories in and out the basic equation works well.

For myself, using Myfitnesspal and recording everything i eat and tracking exercise through a Garmin connection it seems to predict weight loss quite well.

The problem many people have is they put on weight slowly, perhaps a pound or two per year over a long period and they want to get it off in a short period measured in weeks or months. It's much better to show some patience, adjust your lifestyle, lose the weight slowly by eating and exercising in a sustainable way. Too many of the fad diets require extreme vigilance which isn't pleasant or sustainable over the long term.
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Old 03-07-19, 12:17 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
I've lost about 5 lbs this year. I've done very little riding. Maybe once or twice a week, tops. The weather doesn't help, and I'm being smart recovering from tendonitis.


Oddly enough, I lost zero weight riding 100-150 miles a week last year while car-lite. This year in just a couple of months, I've lost 5 lbs effortlessly. Here's the thing. When I ride regularly, I allow myself to eat more. I eat foods that are higher in fat. Net result: zero change in weight. This year, I'm riding a lot less. However, I'm more careful with what I eat. I figure, since I'm not riding very much, I can't afford to eat snacks or larger meals. The downside of course, is that I'm not as strong of a rider, but that's also obviously due to my recovering from tendonitis, which can take months.


Conclusion: exercise makes me stronger, but it's not making me any skinnier. Ironically, less exercise makes me skinnier. Psychologically, exercise that makes me sweat leads me to believe I've worked harder/burned more calories than exercise where I don't sweat like hiking, walking or weight training.


Interestingly, the forms of exercise where I don't sweat much may be much more healthy since they are all weight bearing forms of exercise. I'm not sure what the future holds as far as how much riding I do. I still enjoy riding obviously, but disappointed it hasn't worked out as far as weight loss.


For reference I am currently 165 lbs, but my "ideal" weight is closer to 150 lbs, my weight in college.
That's because exercise can 't supplant a poor diet. If its weight you want to lose, look to your diet. No exercise needed.

That said, exercise is necessary in an overall health and fitness regime so you can't just leave it out. However, people are way too concerned with trying to reduce weight through exercise, when its their diets that really need the majority of their attention.
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Old 03-07-19, 01:27 AM
  #71  
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I'll second the "all weight gain is not equal" comment.

This summer I had my first opportunity to do a multi-day cycling tour with some family members. Seattle, WA to Chicago, IL in 19 days of riding. All anyone could ask when I got back home was "So you guys rode over 100 miles per day for three weeks... how much weight did you lose?!"

I haven't regularly tracked my weight since elementary school, but I was curious about this same question going into the tour. I was at 195 lbs. when we started and 193 when it was over. So, basically no weight change at all. Regardless, I felt better at the end of the tour, and I could absolutely ride harder, faster, and longer. I assume any loss of fat was immediately counteracted by muscle gain.

Most of my friends were disappointed to learn that I didn't lose any weight. Most of my pants fit a little looser, but there wasn't a huge visual change. Obviously three weeks of exercise is nothing compared to 12 months of diet and exercise, but it was long enough to have an effect on my body, just not in the weight loss department.
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Old 03-07-19, 02:05 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by csaxby View Post
I'll second the "all weight gain is not equal" comment.

This summer I had my first opportunity to do a multi-day cycling tour with some family members. Seattle, WA to Chicago, IL in 19 days of riding. All anyone could ask when I got back home was "So you guys rode over 100 miles per day for three weeks... how much weight did you lose?!"

I haven't regularly tracked my weight since elementary school, but I was curious about this same question going into the tour. I was at 195 lbs. when we started and 193 when it was over. So, basically no weight change at all. Regardless, I felt better at the end of the tour, and I could absolutely ride harder, faster, and longer. I assume any loss of fat was immediately counteracted by muscle gain.

Most of my friends were disappointed to learn that I didn't lose any weight. Most of my pants fit a little looser, but there wasn't a huge visual change. Obviously three weeks of exercise is nothing compared to 12 months of diet and exercise, but it was long enough to have an effect on my body, just not in the weight loss department.
When I was riding a max of 150-200 miles a week over the course of a year or so, I lost a grand total of 3 lbs. From 150 to 147 lbs. This is with every single ride starting with at least 20 minutes of climbing. Of course I became a much stronger climber, I could drop guys on the college cycling team on climbs with relative ease, and I'm sure my % of body fat decreased. Then again, I didn't need to lose any weight so it would've been unhealthy if I had.

I ride for fun and to take care of chores over short distances (8miles round trip or less). I do read and hear of multiple instances of weight loss with ebikes. Grant Petersen claims that weight loss is more likely with either relatively low effort (walking and ebiking require about half the effort of riding a conventional bike) or very high effort: sprints, weight training. Moderate effort exercise like most cycling is the worst. Based on my results or lack thereof, I find his reasoning sound.
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Old 03-07-19, 05:22 AM
  #73  
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People who think that fat-loss is only about CICO are wrong. Cutting calories isn't sustainable, you can't keep cutting calories forever. You can't live in caloric deficit forever especially if you're training and are physically active. Eventually your body will adapt to living on less calories and stop responding, then what ??...The problem with using exercise ( especially cycling, running and other aerobic exercises) is that human body adapts to it very quickly. When your body adapts to exercise it will stop responding, you become more efficient and burn less energy, then what are you going to do ??. Are you going to cut more calories and starve yourself even more ??....It's really strange, we have more information on nutrition than ever before, we have all kinds of nutrition apps, all kinds of good wholesome food, and yet obesity epidemic is getting worse and it's not just among sedentary people but a lot of fitness buffs are overweight too.
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Old 03-07-19, 07:17 AM
  #74  
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Monitoring CICO is important for sure, but there appears to be more to it than only that.

Consider studies of dieters. Most weight-loss schemes revolve around reducing the overall number of calories consumed – but what if the timing also determined the benefits? When overweight and obese women were put on a weight-loss diet for three months, those who consumed most of their calories at breakfast lost two and a half times more weight than those who had a light breakfast and ate most of their calories at dinner – even though they consumed the same number of calories overall.


BBC - Future - How meal timings affect your waistline
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Old 03-07-19, 07:50 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
People who think that fat-loss is only about CICO are wrong. Cutting calories isn't sustainable, you can't keep cutting calories forever. You can't live in caloric deficit forever especially if you're training and are physically active. Eventually your body will adapt to living on less calories and stop responding, then what ??...The problem with using exercise ( especially cycling, running and other aerobic exercises) is that human body adapts to it very quickly. When your body adapts to exercise it will stop responding, you become more efficient and burn less energy, then what are you going to do ??. Are you going to cut more calories and starve yourself even more ??....It's really strange, we have more information on nutrition than ever before, we have all kinds of nutrition apps, all kinds of good wholesome food, and yet obesity epidemic is getting worse and it's not just among sedentary people but a lot of fitness buffs are overweight too.
right on. The body will always adapt
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